From mascott at scn.org Fri Jan 5 13:22:37 1996 From: mascott at scn.org (A. R. 'Bob' Mascott) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:22:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Spamming Message-ID: SPAMMING A complaint about 'spamming' on the Internet or anywhere else is inappropriate, largely because spamming is really an undefined term. What it means to one person is not the same as the next person. How many places does a message have to be sent to - to be classified as 'spamming'? What ever your answer is - it is wrong. Messages are commonly posted in many areas at the same time, with no complaints. And people in those areas forward that same message on to many other areas. All done without it being considered 'spamming'. When a person complains about 'spamming', they are not really complaining about a message being posted. They are complaining about the content of the message. For one reason or another the complainer does not like the message. However, instead of doing that which is considered appropriate - Responding to the poster and complaining to him or her directly. The reasons for doing so, seem to be varied. Lack of courage, inadequate knowledge to respond appropriately, or from the wording of some of the messages sent to SCN, ashamed of their lack of education. Whatever it is, the result is the same. They try to rally intermediates to see their position, even though they know very little of the subject they write about. They just know that they didn't like that message. This is very much akin to wanting the post office to do something, because your girlfriend wrote you a 'Dear John' message and sent copies of it to many of your friends. Forums and Lists can be either UnModerated (as most are) or moderated (postings are sorted before they are seen by the public). Never has just someone saying 'Post only this kind of message' made it so. Never has there been either a forum or a list in which some of the message subjects, strayed from the correct subject, without anyone complaining. When one tries to write something like a rule or policy to prohibit some actions of some of the public and do it without inhibiting the major amount of actions of most of the people - Words seem so inadequate. Bob Mascott - mascott at scn.org From allen at scn.org Fri Jan 5 23:09:03 1996 From: allen at scn.org (allen) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:09:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Spamming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is not my experience at all Bob. I just went back and looked up the FAQs for the net-abuse newsgroups. Actually, spamming has nothing to do with content, by definition. It has to do with multiple cross-posting to newsgroups, regardless of content. It seems to mostly be associated with advertising and that is not how it is defined. For more info check out the FAQs for news.announce.net-abuse, the web site is the easiest way to do it. http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/net-abuse-faq/part1/faq.htm because you can link to the various parts of it without haveing to wade through the whole thing. And while it certainly no hard and fast rule the # of crossposting to newsgroups that many use as an indice of spamming is 20. Complaints about the content of a message are a different matter altogether. And one I agree is best dealt with by responding to the sender and/or his/her postmaster. One generally accepted bad practice seems to be the posting of commercial posts in most Usenet groups, often this is compounded by spamming (posting to dozens of groups at the same time, regardless of charter) and they are two separate offenses which often get accounts canceled on commercial providers. I think this is a policy issue that SCN needs to address. I don't think it is OK to say it is OK for our users to do anything they want in the usenet groups. Perhaps some of our policy needs to be rewritten. What worked for a user base of 1,000 users and no net access other than e-mail may not be appropriate for a user base rapidly approaching ten times that and with usenet and web access. The net works without censorship (it seems to me, tho I am relatively new to it) because it is self regulating, part of that self regulation it seems to me comes from internet providers being responsible to some degree for the actions of their users and being willing to place restrictions on the kind of activities that are OK for users. SCN already does this, I just think it may need to be revised somewhat to reflect our greater presence on the net. On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, A. R. 'Bob' Mascott wrote: > > SPAMMING > > A complaint about 'spamming' on the Internet or anywhere else is > inappropriate, largely because spamming is really an undefined term. What > it means to one person is not the same as the next person. > > How many places does a message have to be sent to - to be classified as > 'spamming'? > What ever your answer is - it is wrong. Messages are commonly posted in > many areas at the same time, with no complaints. And people in those > areas forward that same message on to many other areas. All done without > it being considered 'spamming'. > > When a person complains about 'spamming', they are not really > complaining about a message being posted. They are complaining about the > content of the message. > > For one reason or another the complainer does not like the message. > However, instead of doing that which is considered appropriate - > Responding to the poster and complaining to him or her directly. The > reasons for doing so, seem to be varied. Lack of courage, inadequate > knowledge to respond appropriately, or from the wording of some of the > messages sent to SCN, ashamed of their lack of education. Whatever it is, > the result is the same. They try to rally intermediates to see their > position, even though they know very little of the subject they write > about. They just know that they didn't like that message. > > This is very much akin to wanting the post office to do something, > because your girlfriend wrote you a 'Dear John' message and sent copies > of it to many of your friends. > > Forums and Lists can be either UnModerated (as most are) or moderated > (postings are sorted before they are seen by the public). Never has just > someone saying 'Post only this kind of message' made it so. Never has > there been either a forum or a list in which some of the message > subjects, strayed from the correct subject, without anyone complaining. > > When one tries to write something like a rule or policy to prohibit > some actions of some of the public and do it without inhibiting the major > amount of actions of most of the people - Words seem so inadequate. > > Bob Mascott - mascott at scn.org > > From wheels at scn.org Sat Jan 6 21:18:02 1996 From: wheels at scn.org (Kevin Higgins) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:18:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Spamming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This month's Internet world defines spamming as posting the same thing to 12 or more groups. -Kevin Higgins --- wheels at scn.org From tsparks at halcyon.com Tue Jan 16 09:54:58 1996 From: tsparks at halcyon.com (Tom Sparks) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:54:58 -0800 Subject: MOST Initiative seeks partners (funds available) Message-ID: >From: most at wolfenet.com >Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:17:15 -0800 (PST) >X-Sender: most at gonzo.wolfenet.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >To: webadm at scn.org >Subject: funds available > >I've been wanting to inform you about our project, and now that we have >money to contribute, I just couldn't put it off any longer. I'm developing a >database of before and after school programs for youth ages 5-14 as part of >the MOST Initiative. The database will be accessible via PAN, the WWW and at >local community agencies, and printed in the form of neighborhood >directories. Our home page is up at http://www.wolfe.net/~most and will soon >be on PAN. We are planning to house and design home pages for after school >programs and have volunteers involved for the purpose. At some point soon >I'd like to have our site linked to the SCN Home Page and perhaps we could >think of other ways to collaborate. > >Below is info on funding for MOST community partners. I'd particularly >recommend your consideration of the "Find & Choose" partner since it seems >to me closest to what SCN is doing. > > >Re: Seeking Two Partners (paid!) to Help Implement the Seattle MOST >Initiative > Responses Due January 19, 1996 > > >Dear Friends, > >As many of you may know, the Seattle MOST Initiative is underway! Wed like you >to join us as a partner in improving the quality and increasing the availability >of out-of-school time activities for Seattles children and youth. > >Currently, MOST seeks two community organizations or groups to work as >community partners to the MOST Initiative. Each would be responsible for >implementing one of the two projects described below. These two organizations >would be paid for their involvement. The specific tasks will be negotiated once >the community partners are selected. Each community partner may work with one >of the three principle agencies collaborating on the MOST Initiative: Child Care >Resources, Schools Out Consortium/ YWCA, or the City of Seattles School-Age >Care Program. > >The MOST Initiative is dedicated to strengthening the quality and availability >of out-of-school time activities for children of color, children with special >needs and children from low-income families. Seattle MOST seeks, as community >partners, organizations or groups who serve these individuals and who can >contribute their expertise in these areas to the MOST Initiative. > >At this time, we have funding to select community partners for the following two >projects. > >1. Hold a conference. The goals of the conference are to increase >participation of community members in MOST and to fulfill or address one or more >strategies in the MOST Action Plan (summary attached). The MOST Community >Oversight Group has identified the following conference topics: increasing >cultural awareness within programs; increasing parent involvement in programs; >information regarding program options, ideas, and curricula; and increasing >connections with schools. The community partner would develop one of these >ideas, plan and produce the conference. The conference is tentatively scheduled >for May 1996, but there is some flexibility in the time. Some technical >assistance on conference planning is available. > >At this time, there is $7,000 available to plan and produce this conference. > > 2. Help build a database of out-of-school programs in Seattle. The database >will provide parents and youth with a complete directory of out-of-school >activities throughout the city. Help is needed with building the database and >creating effective distribution methods. (The project already has a lead >coordinator and an Americorps volunteer based at Child Care Resources. The >community partner would work directly with these two individuals.) Assistance >is needed as soon as possible and could continue for up to two and one-half >years. > >For the next six to twelve months, there is $5,000 available to help with the >MOST database. We envision that this entire amount would be paid to a community >partner to cover time spent by them to perform specific tasks related to >creation and distribution of the database. > >A community organization or group interested in either one of these projects may >want to consider some of the following issues: > >. Involvement could bring greater visibility to your organization or group. > >. Involvement could lead to new connections and partnerships. > >. Involvement may result in more suitable and effective services for the >populations that you serve. > >. Involvement would require time and energy beyond your existing >responsibilities. > >If you are interested in working on either of these projects, please send me a >one-page letter-of interest no later than January 19, 1996. The letter should >express why you are interested and describe why your organization could best >accomplish the conference or database projects goals. If you have questions >before deciding whether to send a letter of interest, please call me at >461-3602. Mail your letter to: > >MOST Community Partner >c\o Adrienne Bloom >Schools Out Consortium/ YWCA >1118 5th Avenue >Seattle, WA 98101 > >We strongly invite your interest and participation. After we have received the >letters of interest, members of the MOST Community Oversight Group will review >them and select those groups that seem best matched to the tasks. We will then >make informal contacts with applicants to discuss further their interest and >expertise. > >We look forward to hearing from you. > >Sincerely, > > >Adrienne Bloom >MOST Project Manager > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Summary of the >Seattle MOST Out-of-School Time Project > > >What does "MOST" stand for? >"MOST" stands for Making the Most of Out-of-School Time. MOST is a national >initiative of the DeWitt Wallace - Reader's Digest Fund. > >What is the goal of MOST? >To increase the quantity of activities and improve the quality of >out-of-school time for children ages 5 to 14. > >How did Seattle get involved? >Seattle was one of five cities across the country chosen in June, 1994 to >receive a planning grant from the DeWitt Wallace - Reader's Digest Fund to >develop an effective plan to respond to this goal. > >What was the result of the planning process? >Seattle was selected in June, 1995 as one of three cities (of the original >five) to receive a $1.2 million grant from the Fund to implement its Action >Plan over the next three years. > >How was Seattle's Action Plan created? >Over 30 people from all over the city, representing youth, parents, >youth-serving organizations, schools, violence prevention groups, ethnic >communities, colleges, licensed child care providers, Seattle Parks and >Recreation, family support programs, business and many more worked for many >months to develop strategies that respond to the needs of parents and youth >in Seattle. >They began by gathering community input and ideas. They conducted 30 >mini-summits with 185 parents, 300 youth, 314 program providers, higher >education representatives, and the community at large. They also used >surveys and demographic data to create a vision of how they wanted >out-of-school activities to work for families and children. > >What is the vision? >By the year 1999, out-of-school activities for children and youth ages 5 to >14 in Seattle will be available to all families because they will match the >community's needs and will be culturally relevant; programs will be of high >quality, will encourage and support parental involvement, and will be >closely linked with the community. > >How will the vision be turned into reality? >The Action Plan contains detailed strategies to strengthen the entire >"system" of out-of-school time activities. Teams of community members, >community-based agencies, City of Seattle, schools and colleges, and more >will work together to implement the strategies. > >Where will the resources come from? >The $1.2 million DeWitt Wallace - Reader's Digest grant will provide a >strong foundation for these efforts. However, the grant requires increasing >amounts of local funds and resources as "matching funds" over the 3-year >period. The grant alone is not sufficient to implement all the strategies. >A resource developer will help generate funds for many aspects of the >initiative and will help agencies and programs become more proficient at >their own resource development efforts. > >What are the strategies? >The strategies are listed below. > >Seattle MOST Initiative Strategies > > >Quality >Increase the quality of out-of-school programs >Develop common standards to rate program quality/ASQ national accreditation >pilot project >Build a feasible "path" for staff to obtain a college degree >Experienced staff mentor newer staff >Increase cultural relevancy of programs through more diverse trainers >Create model programs for middle school youth (ages 11 to 14) > >Access >Help low-income parents pay for programs >Increase transportation to and from out-of-school programs >Help parents and youth find and choose out-of-school programs through >effective information services > >Supply >Increase the number of out-of-school programs in areas where few exist and >develop capacity to sustain them >Community Education and Support >Raise public awareness of and support for out-of-school programs > >Linkages to the Community >Increase connections between out-of-school programs and schools >Increase parent, youth, and volunteer involvement in out-of-school programs >Use out-of-school programs to help parents find other community resources > >For more information about Seattle MOST, contact Adrienne Bloom at YWCA >School's Out Consortium, 1118 - 5th Avenue, Seattle, WA 98101 or call (206) >461-3602. > > > > > > > > >=============:)================= >Philip Klein >MOST Database Coordinator >Child Care Resources >1265 S Main St, #210 >Seattle, WA 98144 >(206) 461-3213 x218 >FAX (206) 461-3726 > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org - In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From lbs at aa.net Wed Jan 17 07:09:16 1996 From: lbs at aa.net (Lucys) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 07:09:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: MOST Initiative seeks partners (funds available) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jan 1996, Tom Sparks wrote: (...snip...) > > > >Re: Seeking Two Partners (paid!) to Help Implement the Seattle MOST > >Initiative > > Responses Due January 19, 1996 (...snip...) > > > > > >If you are interested in working on either of these projects, please send me a > >one-page letter-of interest no later than January 19, 1996. The letter should > >express why you are interested and describe why your organization could best Tom, This looks like an interesting community project. It mentions a January 19, 1996 deadline for a letter-of-interest. Is SCN going to apply to work on this project? -- Lucy S. lbs at aa.net Seattle, Washington USA . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org - In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From carlos at scn.org Wed Jan 17 11:57:03 1996 From: carlos at scn.org (Carlos Cruz) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:57:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: MOST Initiative seeks partners (funds available) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, I'm responding in regards to the MOST Initiative and would like to suggest a common interest here for SCN, The King-SocServ list and MOST. As we know Al Boss is trying to put together students at the Univ. of Washington together with social service providers to build on the Web facility that HBS International and SCN has made available. The MOST Initiative seems to fall into that category and they are willing to pay for the development of their datatbase and its connection through SCN. I suggest bringing these pieces together and the rest of the King-SS providers since their efforts are of mutual import. I would be willing to work on this one if this is a viable idea for us. We might take the HBS proposal and use it as a starting gate for our involvement with the MOST Initiative. Carlos . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org - In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From carlos at scn.org Thu Jan 18 11:08:30 1996 From: carlos at scn.org (Carlos Cruz) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:08:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: MOST Initiative seeks partners (funds available) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Lucy! As Tom posted on the scn list there will be a joint meeting tonight at the Greenwood Library and I will be there to further the discussion on the Initiative and listen to advice on procedure. Hope to see you there. Carlos . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org - In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From lbs at aa.net Fri Jan 19 18:53:23 1996 From: lbs at aa.net (Lucys) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 18:53:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Mailing List Delays ? Message-ID: Hi All, I just want to mention something about the delivery time from the scn mail list. Some emails from this list, have not been received by me until about 20 hours later (based on the original date/time stamp of the email). Have other people noticed this? Is this common? P.S. I am subscribed to the scn mail list via my scn id, and my scn mailbox has a 'forwarding address' to my aa.net account. -- Lucy S. lbs at aa.net Seattle, Washington USA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From ccruz at cks.ssd.k12.wa.us Fri Jan 19 12:02:22 1996 From: ccruz at cks.ssd.k12.wa.us (Carlos Cruz) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:02:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Beginnings of a FAQ (fwd) Message-ID: There were many questions about basic Web FAQs at last nights meeting and I find this to be a good list if you don't mind the bandwidth. : ^) Carlos ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:47:50 EST From: Garth C. Sainio To: Multiple recipients of list HTML-L Subject: Beginnings of a FAQ Maybe this will help thing a little. Garth http://www.dartmouth.edu/~modred The HTML (WWW) Assistance List FAQ version 0.1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Last Revised 18 January 1996. Created in an attempt to answer the questions that seem to take up 95% of the list's posting. Any comments or suggestions please email me at garth.sainio at dartmouth.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Contents: 1. What is the HTML (WWW) Assistance List? 2. What should I use to create/edit web pages? 3. How do I add a counter to my page? 4. What are some sites which provide assistance with HTML and web page design? 5. General List Topics a. How do I subscribe? b. How do I unsubscribe? c. How do I send mail to the list? d. How do I set the list to be sent to me as a digest? e. How do I send mail to the list-owner? f. Does the list have an archive? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- 1. What is the HTML (WWW) Assistance List? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- The HTML (WWW) Assistance List is a list that is designed for helping people in designing, creating, maintaining and tweaking the webs pages. As the title suggests much of the mail will be about HTML code and syntax and the function of various tags. This is and will most likely continue to be a high volume list. So, if you can not deal with a large number of messages daily, you have two options: receive the list in digest mode (see 5d) or unsubscribe from the list (see 5b). 2. What should I use to create/edit web pages? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- There are two schools of thought on this issue. The first is that all you need to create web pages is a basic text editor and a knowledge of HTML tags and syntax. The advantages of this method are that a good knowledge of HTML and, more often than naught, the writer of the page has more control over what he places on his page for all to see; i.e. fewer unforeseen bugs and other undesirable effects. The other option is to use an HTML editor. These editors aid people who do not wish learn HTML by sheltering them from most of the nitty-gritty of page development. Editors range from being merely text editors that provide HTML templates to being WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get editors). There are also a large number of web page design aids like programs that let you select a color from a color wheel and returns the RGB value in hexadecimal for you. If you are just beginning to design pages then the best way to learn is (as in any form of programming) by doing and by viewing source. To look at the source for a page look around your browser for an option of either view source or go to save as and see if "Save as Source" is an option. Some editors I know of (by no means a complete list, as I compiling this list from memory): Macintosh: Adobe Pagemill- commercial, demo available Web Weaver- shareware (I think) DOS/Windows: HotMetal Pro Hot Dog UNIX/X windows: None, that I know of. I guess emacs or vi will have to suffice. Other platforms: Let me know of any. 3. How do I add a counter to my page? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Again there are two schools of thought on this one. The first is to use of the counter services on the Web. This is handy if you do not have access to the cgi-bin directory of your web server or if you do not know how to write a script to do the counting for you. The second excuse is not a totally valid one as there are many public domain counting scripts available with step by step directions on how to adjust the script for your page and detailed directions on how to install the script. There are many services that provide counting, some of them for free, the best thing to do is look for a service like this that is local to you (i.e. in the same country or geographic region). One such company is Web Counter at http://www.digits.com/web_counter/ , another is Internet Audit Bureau at http://www.big-hits.com/computer/other.html. You can also visit Matt's script archive at http://worldwidemart.com/scripts/ to obtain a script to implement a counter. Also, take a look at yahoo at http://www.yahoo.com in the Computers/WWW/CGI/ directory for more links about writing and using scripts. 4. What are some sites which provide assistance with HTML and web page design? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- Here is a short list of sites to look at, as always if you can't find what you are looking for in these sites check yahoo and ask on the list. A Beginner's Guide to HTML http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/General/Internet/WWW/HTMLPrimer.html Composing Good HTML http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/cgh/ HTML Stuff http://shani.net:80/~tls/html.html The HTML Writers Guild Website http://www.mindspring.com/guild/ HTML Quick Reference http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/lynx_help/HTML_quick.html Bare Bones Guide to HTML (the most useful site I've found) http://www.access.digex.net/~werbach/barebone.html The Ten Commandments of HTML FAQ http://www.visdesigns.com/design/commandments.html 5. General List Topics -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- a. How do I subscribe? You may subscribe to list at any time by sending a "subscribe HTML-L your name" command to LISTSERV at VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV at TREARN.BITNET). b. How do I unsubscribe? From the message you get when you sign up. "You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF HTML-L" command to LISTSERV at VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV at TREARN.BITNET)." c. How do I send mail to the list? From the message you get when you sign up. "To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the list, just send mail to HTML-L at VM.EGE.EDU.TR. This is called "sending mail to the list", because you send mail to a single address and LISTSERV makes copies for all the people who have subscribed. This address (HTML-L at VM.EGE.EDU.TR) is also called the "list address". You must never try to send any command to that address, as it would be distributed to all the people who have subscribed. " d. How do I set the list to be sent to me as a digest? Send the command "html-l set digest" to LISTSERV at VM.EGE.EDU.TR. e. How do I send mail to the list-owner? I'm not totally sure on this one, I've looked at the documentation but do not see a specific address so if you really need to get in touch with the list-owner try html-l-owner at VM.EGE.EDU.TR or send mail to admin at VM.EGE.EDU.TR and ask them to help you contact the list owner. f. Does the list have an archive? From the message you get when you sign up. "Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can get a list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX HTML-L" command to LISTSERV at VM.EGE.EDU.TR (or LISTSERV at TREARN.BITNET). You can then order these files with a "GET HTML-L LOGxxxx" command, or using LISTSERV's database search facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From ccruz at cks.ssd.k12.wa.us Fri Jan 19 11:45:35 1996 From: ccruz at cks.ssd.k12.wa.us (Carlos Cruz) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:45:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: NSF competition news (long message) (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 18:41:06 -0500 From: Kirk Winters To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: NSF competition news (long message) On December 12, EDInfo sent out a message about the National Science Foundation's "Networking Infrastructure for Education" program. Last week, Nora Sabelli (of NSF) informed us that, because of budget developments, the deadline for preliminary proposals has been moved back one month -- to March 15, 1996. She also says that "...budgetary constraints may require further postponement or cancellation of the competition." We thought some of you would want to know about this. Below is the e-mail message from Ms. Sabelli, as well as the December 12 EDInfo message describing the competition. We apologize for this unusually long message (9 pages), & particularly to those of you not interested in this competition. Questions about this competition should go to: nie at nsf.gov Kirk Winters Peter Kickbush kwinters at inet.ed.gov pkickbus at inet.ed.gov -------------------------------------------------------------------------- MESSAGE FROM NORA SABELLI (of NSF) ---------------------------------- From: nie at nsf.gov January 15, 1996 Under the terms of the Continuing Resolution passed by Congress and signed by the President, staff members have returned to work until January 26, but there is no final operating budget for some agencies, including NSF. Proposers should note that the NIE preliminary proposal deadline has been changed to March 15, 1996. Note that budgetary constraints may require further postponement or cancellation of the competition. Information on final proposals and timelines for review and funding decisions will be mailed to the principal investigators of the preliminary proposals that will be encouraged for full submission; please do not call the office to inquire about full proposal deadlines. Preliminary proposals should be no more than eight pages in length and should contain sufficient information for an external peer review of the merits of the proposed work. One page (at most) of the total eight should be devoted to an estimate of the budget categories, and another two (at most) to the qualifications of the proposed collaborators. Expected outcomes and evaluation plans should be discussed in the text. The name of the Principal Investigator, and mailing, phone and electronic mail information should be provided with the preliminary proposal title. No special forms are needed Please mail four copies of the complete preliminary proposal to NIE Program, Room 855 National Science Foundation 4201 Wilson Blvd., Arlington, VA 22230 You may direct questions to the program office at nie at nsf.gov or at the phone number listed above. We apologize for any inconvenience that the revised process may cause you. ************************************************************************* Nora H. Sabelli, Senior Program Director, National Science Foundation Applications of Advanced Technologies, Stafford Building, Suite 855, Education and Human Resources, 4201 Wilson Blvd, and Arlington, VA 22230 Networking Infrastructure for Education, Education and Human Resources and Phone: (703) 306-1655, x5888; Computer and Information Science and Fax: (703) 306-0434 Engineering Internet: nsabelli at nsf.gov ************************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORIGINAL EDInfo MESSAGE on NSF's NIE COMPETITION ------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: NSF's NIE solicitation THE NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION recently announced a grants competition that some of us may be interested in. The "Networking Infrastructure for Education" program, as it's called, aims to support 1-5 efforts in each of three categories: Evaluation ($25,000 to $125,000) Dissemination ($25,000 to $125,000) Electronic Library prototypes ($75,000 to $250,000) Preliminary proposals are due by February 15, 1996. If you're thinking of submitting a proposal, please contact the NSF program *prior* to the February 15 target date. BUT FIRST, you may want to read the information below, which is taken from an e-mail message (from Nora Sabelli of NSF) announcing this competition. (Sorry for the *length* of this message -- about 6 pages.) ********************************************************* The Networking Infrastructure for Education (NIE) Program is a joint effort between the Directorates for Computer and Information Science and Engineering (CISE) and for Education and Human Resources (EHR). The aims of the NIE Program are to hasten the development of a widespread high performance electronic communications infrastructure in support of science, mathematics, engineering and technology (SMET) education reform, and to lay a foundation on which strategies for the appropriate use of technology in support of increased student achievement can be developed. NIE awards build synergy between technology and education researchers, developers, and implementers to explore networking costs and benefits, test self-sustaining strategies, and develop models of a flexible educational networking infrastructure that will speed the pace of educational innovation and reform. For the FY 1996 competition, the NIE Program seeks proposals in the areas of: (a) programmatic evaluation of the impact of existing technology programs on the infrastructure of education, and on systemic reform; (b) widespread dissemination to appropriate audiences of the outcomes of existing models both successful and unsuccessful; and (c) electronic library implementation prototypes. (Information about awards initiated during FYs 1994 and 1995 is available by e-mailing or calling the NIE Program office at nie at nsf.gov or 703-306-1651.) *********************** Guidelines and Examples *********************** The following section provides guidelines and examples of types of eligible activities. In FY 1996, the NIE Program solicits proposals that will contribute to: EVALUATING THE IMPACT of networking applications in educational settings. Specifically, proposals should examine the effectiveness of current work in creating a sustainable infrastructure and reforming science and mathematics education at all levels. Projects may examine impacts on student learning as well as development of community infrastructure. Projects should not be limited to NSF-funded activities and can propose alternative evaluation measures. For example, evaluation projects could examine the following issues: mechanisms used by awardees to coordinate awards from different federal and state agencies; the role that federally- or state-funded models have in developing local implementation plans; the impact of networking applications on communities; & areas of interest that are not well covered by existing programs. DISSEMINATING THE OUTCOMES OF EXISTING WORK to appropriate audiences and evaluating different models of technology infrastructure implementation. Heretofore, many dissemination efforts have included a variety of passive means to distribute information, such as print media, e-mail, database repositories, and the World Wide Web. The effectiveness of these methods has been limited because they assume a high correlation between awareness and action. Proposals should incorporate innovative ideas to enhance the effectiveness of dissemination efforts to reach all stakeholder audiences. For example, dissemination projects could examine the following issues: alternative measures of student achievement including longitudinal studies; innovative methods of proactive dissemination, that is, methods which involve a collaborative relationship between the disseminator and those accessing the information; ways to establish local school innovators as experts for their peers on the process and outcomes of the innovation; methods for insuring widespread dissemination of successful models of school and community infrastructure; ways to expand the awareness of school districts and school boards about the need for integrating technology into the science and mathematics education of all students; and interactive repository of models and costs of existing implementation in similar districts. IMPLEMENTING "ELECTRONIC LIBRARY" PROTOTYPES as access points for digital materials. The NIE program will support projects to develop policies and prototypes that explore system-wide implementation issues of Electronic Libraries, access to information located in remote sites, and the organizational and support structures that makes such access possible. For example, Electronic Library projects could address the following issues: integrating on-line resources with standards-based curriculum development, and with system-wide strategies for teacher and librarian professional development; organizing strategies for cataloging, searching, evaluating and adding educational materials to Digital Libraries (DL), adapted to different educational audiences; developing strategies to integrate DL use with use of traditional school and public libraries to maximize effectiveness of use and equity of access; piloting and evaluating low- and high-bandwidth access to existing DL testbeds through a variety of network access mechanisms, and developing appropriate user support strategies; and publishing teachers' and students' work on-line. NOTE: Electronic Library projects may leverage existing activities and work with NSF-funded projects whenever appropriate. Additional testing and deployment resources may be added to a DL testbed, and an Electronic Library project may be funded as a supplement to existing DL or NIE awards. For more information about the DL program, see the solicitation (NSF 93-141) or the subsequent press release (NSF 94-52). *************************************** Preparation and Submission of Proposals *************************************** FOR GENERAL INFORMATION, contact the Networking Infrastructure for Education program at: (703) 306-1651 or nie at nsf.gov AN INFORMAL PRELIMINARY PROPOSAL IS REQUIRED. The preliminary proposal should be in the form of a six to eight page (double spaced) document describing the goals of the activity, a discussion of the audience to be addressed, and a preliminary work plan and expected budget by activity. Evaluation and dissemination proposals should include the reasons for selecting a subset of NIE or other awards and projects to be evaluated and/or disseminated. There are no special forms for the preliminary proposal submission. We encourage the submission of preliminary proposals via electronic mail and request that two additional hard copies be mailed to the NIE program. Please include the following information on your preliminary proposal: (1) Name(s) of proposed Principal Investigator, (2) Institution, (3) Mailing address, phone, fax, and e-mail address of the PI. Preliminary proposals are due by February 15, 1996. Proposers are encouraged to contact the program prior to the February 15 target date. Preliminary proposals will be reviewed by NSF staff and/or external reviewers, and proposers will receive feedback within one month. FORMAL PROPOSALS are due on April 15, 1996. Special review criteria beyond the standard NSF criteria are listed under Proposal Review. **************************** Proposal Format & Submission **************************** Proposals developed in response to this program solicitation should be prepared and submitted in accordance with the guidelines provided in the NSF brochure, Grant Proposal Guide, NSF 95-27, August 1995 (Replaces NSF 94-2). Copies of the most current edition of this publication are available at no cost from: National Science Foundation Forms and Publications, Room P15 4201 Wilson Blvd. Arlington, VA 22230 (703) 306-1130 pubs at nsf.gov (Internet) Fifteen (15) copies of each formal proposal, including one copy bearing original signatures, should be mailed to: Announcement No. 96-13 Proposal Processing Unit P60 National Science Foundation 4201 Wilson Blvd. Arlington, VA 22230 One additional copy should be sent to: Program Director Networking Infrastructure for Education Suite 855 National Science Foundation 4201 Wilson Blvd. Arlington, VA 22230 Only one (1) copy of NSF Form 1225, Information about Principal Investigator/Project Director, should be sent, attached to the original signed proposal. Proposals should include a new NSF Form 1207 Cover Sheet/Certification page, dated 7/95. *************** Proposal Review *************** Proposal evaluation will be performed by a panel of experts and by ad-hoc mail reviews and site visits, as needed. Proposals will be evaluated in accordance with established Foundation procedures, and the four general criteria described in Grant Proposal Guide (NSF 95-27) will be used. Proposal evaluation will also take into account NIE's overarching goal of building collaborations among technology and education researchers, developers and implementers. In addition, the following criteria will be used: (1) Significant impact: The potential to achieve significant impact that results in increased student performance and sustainable educational networking. (2) Sustainability: The potential to leverage the ability of the education community to carry out full-scale, self-sustaining and scalable educational networking models. (3) Cost-sharing: Business and industry participation and cost-sharing are important indicators of the sustainability and flexibility of any networking infrastructure. Proposals should demonstrate a meaningful working relationship with business and industry, and a corresponding level of cost-sharing, including cost-sharing by consortia members, as appropriate. Cost-sharing must come from non-federal funds and be in accordance with OMB circular A-110. Reviewers will be interested in how the project leverages efforts of other federal, state and local governments, such as existing network connectivity, technical support, local bond issues, statewide education reform programs, state use of training funds, and so on. In addition: For EVALUATION activities: The extent to which the project contributes to our base of knowledge about the impact of technology on educational reform. For DISSEMINATION activities: The amount of proactive involvement and, if appropriate, the quality of plans for updating information. For ELECTRONIC LIBRARIES: The potential for demonstrating system-wide impact. Implementation prototypes should address an appropriate target audience. ******************** Grant Administration ******************** Grants and cooperative agreements awarded as a result of this solicitation are administered in accordance with the terms and conditions of NSF GC-1, "Grant General Conditions," or FDP-II, "Federal Demonstration Project General Terms and Conditions," depending on the grantee organization. Copies of these documents are available at no cost from the NSF Forms and Publications Unit, phone (703) 306-1130, or pubs at nsf.gov (Internet). More comprehensive information is contained in the NSF Grant Policy Manual (NSF 95-26), for sale through the Superintendent of Documents, Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402. The telephone number at GPO is (202) 783-3238 for subscription information. IF THE SUBMITTING INSTITUTION HAS NEVER RECEIVED AN NSF AWARD, it is recommended that appropriate administrative officials become familiar with the policies and procedures in the NSF Grant Policy Manual which are applicable to most NSF awards. If a proposal is recommended for an award, the NSF Division of Grants and Agreements will request certain organizational, management, and financial information. These requirements are described in Chapter V of the NSF Grant Policy Manual.  Kirk Winters Office of the Under Secretary U.S. Department of Education kwinters at inet.ed.gov * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From jimh at scn.org Thu Jan 25 12:01:06 1996 From: jimh at scn.org (Jim Horton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:01:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings Message-ID: I was thinking about the meeting last night - which went very well under Kevin's leadership - that we may consider a little change to our traditional format or agenda. The real purpose of the meeting is to be a business meeting, with status reports from the various committees and discussion and voting on issues. We normally have a lot to cover in the less than two hours that we have scheduled. Its important that our meetings remain open to anyone interested in coming, whether users, IP's, volunteers, committee members or just interested public. Input from all of these groups are important to our decision making process, like our discussions on our web/FreePort policies last night. It does get difficult to get through the business portion of the meeting if we dedicate as much as half of our available time to give a 'short' orientation to SCN for the new folks each meeting. That is largely what Steve Mudd's new user orientation meetings are for. What I would like to suggest is that before the next meeting, we prepare some specific information sheets with our history, structure, information about committees, schedules and needs, mailing lists, and whatever else seems appropriate and helpful, and have them available as handouts. People that want them could pick them up on their way in or out. In this way, we could actually provide more information than would be possible in the meeting without taking up any extra time. If people agree that this is a good idea, I can start on putting some of the information together - in fact, I think we already have some of it - and I would welcome any input or suggestions or offers to help that anyone would like to make. Jim -- Jim Horton jimh at scn.org Seattle Community Network * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From jimh at scn.org Sat Jan 27 00:55:14 1996 From: jimh at scn.org (Jim Horton) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 00:55:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, James Russell wrote: > I think that the general meeting should be a user friendly meeting! > This mean that everyone should have the opportunity to say hi! and say > something about why they came to the SCN meeting! Once you you loose the > people friendly attitude, than we have become Boeing, Microsoft and etc! > The solution is set the time back to 6:30 pm and let the new member have > that portion for intro. See how easy that was!! Remember we are a community > network not a corp. board room!! Those of us who didn't make in the > corporation, can speak up in SCN board room! Ha ha!! I don't think anyone will argue with that, James. Introductions of both new and old folks are a good way to start the meetings. When we start drawing more than a hundred people, that may become more difficult. I considered an early start time to do the SCN overview and orientation. It would require scheduling the space with the library but may very well be worth sding. My concern iss that we are moving into a time when we will have a lot of SCN business to report and discuss with the formation of SCNA and the migration to a new user interface paradigm. I am glad that we have new people coming to every meeting, but it seems to be taking longer and longer to do the litany each time. We can give them a lot more information on a few sheets of paper without having to run through it each time for everyone. We already have the new user orientation as a forum dedicated to explaining just what SCN is and answering questions. I have received a lot of positive response to my suggestion. Right now, I am going through a lot of flyers, handouts and other information we've already put together to see what we can use and what needs to be updated. Hopefully, we won't need to add too much to what we already have. Maybe we should pose your suggestion to the list. What do folks think about having a 6:30 - 7:00 new user orientation prior to the general meetings? Do we have folks willing and able to come early and conduct them? Our meetings are already scheduled well out into the year. Kevin, or someone, will need to check with the library to see if we can move the start times up a half hour. Regardless, we will have some handouts ready for the next meeting and, I hope, we will need less time dedicated to the recap of our story up to now. There is nothing in this that will make the meetings less friendly. If we can get the right information together, we should be able to make the meetings better for the new folks than they are now. If we can schedule the pre-meeting orientations, it will be even better. What do you think? Jim -- Jim Horton jimh at scn.org Seattle Community Network * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From nancyk at scn.org Fri Jan 26 13:33:10 1996 From: nancyk at scn.org (Nancyk) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:33:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's a great idea, Jim. Another idea that has been mentioned before is to start the meeting earlier for those that wish to have SCN explained to them, and begin the business part of the General meeting promptly at 7pm. --Nancy * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From bwilliam at scn.org Fri Jan 26 10:08:36 1996 From: bwilliam at scn.org (Brandy Williams) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:08:36 -0800 Subject: SCN General Meetings Message-ID: <199601261808.KAA24434@scn.org> I certainly got my SCN history at new volunteer orientation, which I actually attended before my first general meeting. Steve does a great job of this. Many organizations have an explanatory brochure. Sounds like a good idea Jim. Mind you, I do learn more at every meeting, as people jog each others' memories. It's also very engaging to watch everyone talk about how this thing happened. I think I heard some plans afoot to record an SCN history. I've done this with other organizations. It's highly entertaining to do interviews with people and get *their* understanding of how the thing came about! It might be a good idea to do this--especially now that Aki says she plans to move on, and while the founding people are more or less still available. You'd be amazed how much you can cherish a written history when the oral history isn't available any more... -- Brandy Williams bwilliam at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From comnets at u.washington.edu Fri Jan 26 11:50:48 1996 From: comnets at u.washington.edu (Douglas Schuler) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 11:50:48 -0800 Subject: Jim's idea Message-ID: <9601261950.AA03488@saul6.u.washington.edu> I think Jim's idea is great! I would really like to see a small set of one-pagers that would help get people oriented. I would be happy to put together one on history. I'd also like to see that the principles are included because these are sometimes left out of the discussion. It has been discussed in the past that we start the meetings at 6:45 with a video from the Naples Free-Net or Heartland Free-Net. This also might be a good way to help orient new people. Of course this would mean getting a monitor there every time *and* a person to show it. Before everybody gets excited :-) I'm not volunteering to do that particular task... sorry. Thanks! -- Doug > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:01:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Jim Horton > Subject: SCN General Meetings > To: scn list > > I was thinking about the meeting last night - which went very well under > Kevin's leadership - that we may consider a little change to our > traditional format or agenda. The real purpose of the meeting is to be a > business meeting, with status reports from the various committees and > discussion and voting on issues. We normally have a lot to cover in the less > than two hours that we have scheduled. > > Its important that our meetings remain open to anyone interested in > coming, whether users, IP's, volunteers, committee members or just > interested public. Input from all of these groups are important to our > decision making process, like our discussions on our web/FreePort > policies last night. It does get difficult to get through the business > portion of the meeting if we dedicate as much as half of our available > time to give a 'short' orientation to SCN for the new folks each meeting. > That is largely what Steve Mudd's new user orientation meetings are for. > > What I would like to suggest is that before the next meeting, we prepare > some specific information sheets with our history, structure, information > about committees, schedules and needs, mailing lists, and whatever else > seems appropriate and helpful, and have them available as handouts. > People that want them could pick them up on their way in or out. In this > way, we could actually provide more information than would be possible in > the meeting without taking up any extra time. > > If people agree that this is a good idea, I can start on putting some of > the information together - in fact, I think we already have some of it - > and I would welcome any input or suggestions or offers to help that anyone > would like to make. > > > Jim > -- > > Jim Horton > jimh at scn.org Seattle Community Network * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From jamesr at scn.org Fri Jan 26 22:58:21 1996 From: jamesr at scn.org (James Russell) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 22:58:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Everyone! I think that the general meeting should be a user friendly meeting! This mean that everyone should have the opportunity to say hi! and say something about why they came to the SCN meeting! Once you you loose the people friendly attitude, than we have become Boeing, Microsoft and etc! The solution is set the time back to 6:30 pm and let the new member have that portion for intro. See how easy that was!! Remember we are a community network not a corp. board room!! Those of us who didn't make in the corporation, can speak up in SCN board room! Ha ha!! This is James................................................:-). James/of/Renton jamesr at scn.org scn.org=Seattle community network On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Jim Horton wrote: > I was thinking about the meeting last night - which went very well under > Kevin's leadership - that we may consider a little change to our > traditional format or agenda. The real purpose of the meeting is to be a > business meeting, with status reports from the various committees and > discussion and voting on issues. We normally have a lot to cover in the less > than two hours that we have scheduled. > > Its important that our meetings remain open to anyone interested in > coming, whether users, IP's, volunteers, committee members or just > interested public. Input from all of these groups are important to our > decision making process, like our discussions on our web/FreePort > policies last night. It does get difficult to get through the business > portion of the meeting if we dedicate as much as half of our available > time to give a 'short' orientation to SCN for the new folks each meeting. > That is largely what Steve Mudd's new user orientation meetings are for. > > What I would like to suggest is that before the next meeting, we prepare > some specific information sheets with our history, structure, information > about committees, schedules and needs, mailing lists, and whatever else > seems appropriate and helpful, and have them available as handouts. > People that want them could pick them up on their way in or out. In this > way, we could actually provide more information than would be possible in > the meeting without taking up any extra time. > > If people agree that this is a good idea, I can start on putting some of > the information together - in fact, I think we already have some of it - > and I would welcome any input or suggestions or offers to help that anyone > would like to make. > > > Jim > -- > > Jim Horton > jimh at scn.org Seattle Community Network > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > END > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From dltooley at speakeasy.org Sat Jan 27 05:53:44 1996 From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 05:53:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: <199601261808.KAA24434@scn.org> Message-ID: Brandy- Great idea about the history! We could even get photos, etc and make for a great web page - perhaps even with meeting minutes! It is truly amazing what an all volunteer effort can get done when there is a common vision like that of the founders. It sounds like there is a lot of interest in doing something before the meetings. I think Jim's idea is great too - any reason why we shouldn't do both? I'd be willing to help out, assuming I can get a little plug for marketplace in at the same time! -DT On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Brandy Williams wrote: > I certainly got my SCN history at new volunteer orientation, which > I actually attended before my first general meeting. Steve does a > great job of this. Many organizations have an explanatory brochure. > Sounds like a good idea Jim. > > Mind you, I do learn more at every meeting, as people jog each > others' memories. It's also very engaging to watch everyone talk > about how this thing happened. I think I heard some plans afoot > to record an SCN history. I've done this with other organizations. > It's highly entertaining to do interviews with people and get > *their* understanding of how the thing came about! It might be > a good idea to do this--especially now that Aki says she plans > to move on, and while the founding people are more or less still > available. You'd be amazed how much you can cherish a written > history when the oral history isn't available any more... > > > > -- > Brandy Williams > bwilliam at scn.org > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > END > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From wheels at scn.org Mon Jan 29 00:31:07 1996 From: wheels at scn.org (Kevin Higgins) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:31:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think Jim has an excellent suggestion in developing printed material to cover the history of SCN/CPSR/SCNA, etc. If we spend ten minutes per meeting on it, that adds up to more than 1 entire meeting in the course of a year. -Kevin Higgins --- wheels at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From wheels at scn.org Mon Jan 29 00:38:28 1996 From: wheels at scn.org (Kevin Higgins) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:38:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The meetings are scheduled from now till October (7-8:45). I will try to get them moved up to 6:30, that is a good idea and a way to make them friendly to new users and do any pre-meeting business that may need to be done. -Kevin Higgins --- wheels at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From starsrus at scn.org Mon Jan 29 08:31:46 1996 From: starsrus at scn.org (Kenneth Applegate) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:31:46 -0800 Subject: SCN General Meetings Message-ID: <199601291631.IAA04177@scn.org> > >The meetings are scheduled from now till October (7-8:45). I will try to >get them moved up to 6:30, that is a good idea and a way to make them >friendly to new users and do any pre-meeting business that may need to be >done. > >-Kevin Higgins --- wheels at scn.org I should point out that it is fairly hard to get recycled from the workday and back to a meeting by 7 PM. I think 6:30 PM might be inconvenient for a lot of people. Ken Applegate -- * starsrus at scn.org (Kenneth Applegate) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From easmith at scn.org Mon Jan 29 14:07:25 1996 From: easmith at scn.org (Eric Smith) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:07:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: <199601291631.IAA04177@scn.org> Message-ID: Another 2c on meeting time. hmmm, must have about a dollars worth by now. Anyway, one theory about weekday evening meeting time goes like this: "The best time is just soon enough after work to let 'em catch a quick bite and actually get to the site, but not enough time to go home and even touch a chair or couch. They touch that couch and forget seeing them again that evening." Eric __________________________________________________________________ ERIC SMITH, Certified Financial Planner erics at goodfunds.com "Socially Responsible Investing" and "Market Place" on SCN Wall Street Northwest | KMS Financial Services, Inc. | Seattle, WA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From comnets at u.washington.edu Mon Jan 29 11:17:52 1996 From: comnets at u.washington.edu (Douglas Schuler) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 11:17:52 -0800 Subject: History... Message-ID: <9601291917.AA15926@saul6.u.washington.edu> FYI, I just ran across a copy of the first pitch that was given to the community about SCN at Kay Bullitt's house. I also have a copy of the editorial that we got into the Times about Seattle's need for such a system. -- Doug * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From jj at scn.org Mon Jan 29 09:00:29 1996 From: jj at scn.org (John Johnson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:00:29 -0800 Subject: SCN General Meetings Message-ID: <199601291700.JAA13774@scn.org> >> >>The meetings are scheduled from now till October (7-8:45). I will try to >>get them moved up to 6:30, that is a good idea and a way to make them >>friendly to new users and do any pre-meeting business that may need to be >>done. >> >>-Kevin Higgins --- wheels at scn.org > >I should point out that it is fairly hard to get recycled from the >workday and back to a meeting by 7 PM. I think 6:30 PM might be >inconvenient for a lot of people. > >Ken Applegate > I think we are not changing the time of the general meeting, but reserving time with the library for this pre-meeting activity. Yes, 6:30 is inconvenient for many people, but so is waiting through the business meeting for a chance to ask questions. (Cae in point: there was a brand new user sitting next to me, had *just* gotten her password, but had a question. She had to leave, and I see she still has not logged in.) I think we need this pre-meeting newbie opportunity time. -- === JJ ================================================================= * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org Mon Jan 29 11:20:13 1996 From: kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org (Kurt Cockrum) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:20:13 -0800 Subject: SCN General Meetings Message-ID: <199601291920.LAA14647@grogatch.seaslug.org> References: , In-Reply-To: , , <199601291631.IAA04177 at scn.org> Kevin said: > I think Jim has an excellent suggestion in developing printed >material to cover the history of SCN/CPSR/SCNA, etc. If we spend ten >minutes per meeting on it, that adds up to more than 1 entire meeting in >the course of a year. but then he said: >The meetings are scheduled from now till October (7-8:45). I will try to >get them moved up to 6:30, that is a good idea and a way to make them >friendly to new users and do any pre-meeting business that may need to be >done. Ken Applegate said: >I should point out that it is fairly hard to get recycled from the >workday and back to a meeting by 7 PM. I think 6:30 PM might be >inconvenient for a lot of people. Yes, we wind up losing more than 2 entire meetings in the course of a year. Moreover, the time-slot is growing in the wrong direction; it collides with the tail of the rush-hour time-slot. I don't know about you, but after a day of duking it out in the outside world, I want a little unwind-time before I dive back in. Scheduling a meeting for 6:30 amounts to extending the work-hours for that day to around 16 hours or so. Any new user with the same problem will not regard the arrangement as "user-friendly". Now Jim has a pretty good idea, namely the little handout sheets. There could just be piles of them at the meeting, whose time need not change. In fact the sheets are time-savers. People can take `em home and read them at their leisure. Making time available at the meeting site to distribute them is counter-productive. In fact, just to be clear about it, up at the top of Jim's sheets should appear in big letters, "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT SCN part X", in about 30-point attention-getting type, followed by the phrase in smaller type "Please READ this before asking questions at the meeting. Please *only* ask questions at the neeting *not* answered by this sheet". No logo, no grafix, no hype, just type. The point is not to *stroke* the new user a la a bogus "user-friendliness" that presumably makes them "feel good" (as if we knew!) but to *deliver* information to the user, to answer their questions, quite a different thing. If the info-delivery aspect is the operational definition of "user-friendliness", then I have no beef with that. If, after having the relevant questions answered by the FAQ, the user decides to move on (maybe after not getting the strokes they expected), I have no problem with that, either. As far as "pre-meeting" business goes, what is that? Isn't the meeting's purpose to *do* the business, not just a forum to report the results of, or the endpoint of, or the object-of-preparation-for, whatever "pre-meeting" business there was? Especially, "pre-meeting" should not be a code-word for "failure to do home-work" or "last-minute preparations for agenda achievement". I hope we don't stop monitoring our *process*; it can get out of hand if we do. So the quivers on my antennae inform me :) Now shortening the workday is presumably one of the desirable social goals I hear people talking about, but what I'm hearing on this forum appears to have a result that amounts to the exact opposite. How come? Why is it, in our efforts to create useful social change, and to try to make a difference in this crummy world for the better, do we always wind making it a little tougher for ourselves when the thing we are working for turns into its opposite and bites us in our butt? I wish we could get a handle on that mysterious transformation...it seems downright intractable. In fact, it's the dark side of working for positive social change. We keep replicating what we want to change. -- kurt If Pat Robertson and Rex Reed are the Kevin Mitnicks of religion, who is the Tsutomu Shimomura of religion? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From bwilliam at scn.org Tue Jan 30 10:03:08 1996 From: bwilliam at scn.org (Brandy Williams) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:03:08 -0800 Subject: History... Message-ID: <199601301803.KAA01182@scn.org> >FYI, I just ran across a copy of the first pitch that was given >to the community about SCN at Kay Bullitt's house. I also have >a copy of the editorial that we got into the Times about Seattle's >need for such a system. > >-- Doug I'd love to see them. Has scn begun an archive yet? -- Brandy Williams bwilliam at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From bwilliam at scn.org Tue Jan 30 10:01:18 1996 From: bwilliam at scn.org (Brandy Williams) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:01:18 -0800 Subject: SCN General Meetings Message-ID: <199601301801.KAA00605@scn.org> >(snip) Scheduling a meeting for 6:30 amounts >to extending the work-hours for that day to around 16 hours or so. >Any new user with the same problem will not regard the arrangement as >"user-friendly". > >Now Jim has a pretty good idea, namely the little handout sheets. >There could just be piles of them at the meeting, whose time need >not change. In fact the sheets are time-savers. People can take `em >home and read them at their leisure. I don't see these as mutually exclusive. Why don't we try doing both 6:30-7 newcomer orientation and written handouts and see: 1. what newcomers find most valuable and 2. what we find we can sustain as volunteers? No one who doesn't want to show up at 6:30 needs to do so. Yes, I do work with another group that has meetings, and we use both handouts and explanation time--they're mutually reinforcing. -- Brandy Williams bwilliam at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From bwilliam at scn.org Tue Jan 30 17:22:27 1996 From: bwilliam at scn.org (Brandy Williams) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:22:27 -0800 Subject: History... Message-ID: <199601310122.RAA05463@scn.org> >> >FYI, I just ran across a copy of the first pitch that was given >> >to the community about SCN at Kay Bullitt's house. I also have >> >a copy of the editorial that we got into the Times about Seattle's >> >need for such a system. >> >-- Doug >> I'd love to see them. Has scn begun an archive yet? >>Brandy >Not that I'm aware of, but this would be a good idea, for someone with a >lot of spare time... :-S >stef banerian Not really...I've presided over an organization which was assembling archives. All it really takes is a (politically acceptable) person willing to store the archives. Then whatever document someone donates gets put in the archive. It's more a physical location problem than anything. -- Brandy Williams bwilliam at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From spban at eskimo.com Tue Jan 30 10:21:47 1996 From: spban at eskimo.com (banerian) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:21:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: History... In-Reply-To: <199601301803.KAA01182@scn.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Brandy Williams wrote: > >FYI, I just ran across a copy of the first pitch that was given > >to the community about SCN at Kay Bullitt's house. I also have > >a copy of the editorial that we got into the Times about Seattle's > >need for such a system. > >-- Doug > > I'd love to see them. Has scn begun an archive yet? Not that I'm aware of, but this would be a good idea, for someone with a lot of spare time... :-S -- stef banerian spban at eskimo.com banerian at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From wheels at scn.org Tue Jan 30 23:46:42 1996 From: wheels at scn.org (Kevin Higgins) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:46:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: <199601291920.LAA14647@grogatch.seaslug.org> Message-ID: Kurt, You read through to words I almost wrote about using that time to develop an agenda ( but did not want to acknowledge in print!). My rebuttal is that by having thed room from 6:30 we could A) start on time at 7 PM, B) set the room by having chairs arranged, C) Learn of last minute concerns that one/many would like to have covered in the meeting. For example, last week Aki had an issue she wanted to discuss. It turned out that this was to change from requiring IPs to use FreePort before developing Web stuff to allowing them the choice developing as each IP desired. This was an important issue best done by the consensus of the group, yet was not something I had on the agenda. We are a dynamic organization and need to the flexibility to discuss timely issues. Having the room from 6:30 would allow for a bit of social interchange, helping newbies, agenda setting and still provide 7 PM start time. -Kevin Higgins --- wheels at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From nancyk at scn.org Wed Jan 31 20:59:42 1996 From: nancyk at scn.org (Nancyk) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:59:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: <199601291700.JAA13774@scn.org> Message-ID: I couldn't have said it better... BTW, the 6:30 timeslot would just be a oneshot for most people; 7pm would still be the start-time for the meeting, per se. Nancy On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, John Johnson wrote: > I think we are not changing the time of the general meeting, but > reserving time with the library for this pre-meeting activity. > > Yes, 6:30 is inconvenient for many people, but so is waiting through the > business meeting for a chance to ask questions. (Case in point: there was > a brand new user sitting next to me, had *just* gotten her password, but > had a question. She had to leave, and I see she still has not logged in.) > I think we need this pre-meeting newbie opportunity time. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From nancyk at scn.org Wed Jan 31 21:06:56 1996 From: nancyk at scn.org (Nancyk) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:06:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: History... In-Reply-To: <199601310122.RAA05463@scn.org> Message-ID: It certainly would seem that Doug Schuler would be the person to do it; what with his history with SCN, the size of his house, his *bent* for manuscripts and the like.... :) Doug? Nancy On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Brandy Williams wrote: > Not really...I've presided over an organization which was assembling > archives. All it really takes is a (politically acceptable) person > willing to store the archives. Then whatever document someone > donates gets put in the archive. It's more a physical location > problem than anything. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END From dltooley at speakeasy.org Wed Jan 31 12:29:51 1996 From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:29:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: SCN General Meetings In-Reply-To: <199601301801.KAA00605@scn.org> Message-ID: Hi All- As soon as the marketplace effort is complete my next project is to connect SCN, and ISPs, with 'newbies' through a standing orientation session that could have full presentations on net history as well as technical instruction and account creation. This should have a solid period of advance promotion and your comments as to how to best approach this issue would be greatly appreciated. -DT On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Brandy Williams wrote: > >(snip) Scheduling a meeting for 6:30 amounts > >to extending the work-hours for that day to around 16 hours or so. > >Any new user with the same problem will not regard the arrangement as > >"user-friendly". > > > >Now Jim has a pretty good idea, namely the little handout sheets. > >There could just be piles of them at the meeting, whose time need > >not change. In fact the sheets are time-savers. People can take `em > >home and read them at their leisure. > > I don't see these as mutually exclusive. Why don't we try doing > both 6:30-7 newcomer orientation and written handouts > and see: 1. what newcomers find most valuable and 2. what > we find we can sustain as volunteers? No one who doesn't want > to show up at 6:30 needs to do so. Yes, I do work with another > group that has meetings, and we use both handouts and explanation > time--they're mutually reinforcing. > > -- > Brandy Williams > bwilliam at scn.org > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > END > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn END