From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Fri May  2 09:44:55 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:44:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: new domain name space approved (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970502094410.17216A-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>



FYI...

---<reposted from cmp-techweb>---

 May 01, 1997 

 Global Telecom Body OKs New Domain Names
 (05/01/97; 5:00 p.m. EDT)
 By Malcolm Maclachlan, TechWire

 GENEVA -- It's not just a ".com" world anymore.

 At the close of an International conference here Thursday, dozens of
 organizations signed a memorandum of understanding that adds seven
 new top-level generic Internet domains.

 The new domains -- .arts, .firm, .info, .nom, .rec, .store and .web -- join
 the five current, top Internet domains: .com, .org, .net, .gov and .edu. The
 last two names, .gov and .edu., are available only to government and
 educational institutions.

 The announcement of the new domains came on the last day of the
 International Telecommunications Union conference here. The ITU, based
 here, is the telecommunications agency of the United Nations.

 Under the plan, 28 new registrars -- four in each of the world's seven
 regions -- are given the right to distribute top-level addresses. Potential
 registrars now have 100 days to apply for one of these spots.

 Network Solutions Inc. (NSI) has the exclusive right to distribute
 top-level domain addresses through a contract with the National Science
 Foundation. The NSF announced last week that it would not renew the
 contract, which expires in 1998.

 The campaign for the new system was led by the Internet Society, a
 nonprofit group dedicated to "maintaining the viability and global scaling of
 the Internet."

 "Internet top-level domain names are a public resource," said Internet
 Society President Don Heath at conference closing ceremonies. "They are
 now recognized as a public trust. This marks just the beginning of a long
 process in which governments will be more involved and will work with
 the Internet community."

 The plan was also endorsed by Vinton Cerf, vice president of Internet
 architecture at MCI. Cerf is the researcher generally credited as being
 "the father of the Web."

 The memorandum was signed by 57 organizations, while another 23 have
 stated their intention to sign. These include groups from 24 countries on
 four continents. Almost all the signers are companies, such as MCI and
 Digital Equipment, as well as non-profit advocacy groups, rather than
 government agencies.

 "The intent was really to get the players in the industry to sign up," said
 Internet Society Executive Director Martin Burack, speaking from the
 group's Reston, Va., offices. "The governments need to be involved, but
 we want it to be industry self-regulation."

 No More Monopoly

 In the meantime, Network Solutions appears to have finally lost out on the
 lucrative monopoly it had controlled since 1993. It has made more than
 $40 million registering addresses, and stood to make far more given the
 continued Internet explosion.

 The company said it plans to maintain control over the right to distribute
 .com addresses. It is unclear whether the company has the right to do this,
 according to the NSF.

 The plan is also facing a legal challenge. Image Online Design, a web
 design firm, filed suit in California court today. The company is seeking an
 injunction against the plan on the grounds that groups involved have no
 legal standing to carry out their plans. 



~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-.._..-*~
 Rob M. VanHooren                                      +1 519 679-1155 x34
 Network Engineering Services                 171 Queens Avenue, Suite 320
 Linkdata Communications Inc.                               London, CANADA
Good things come to those who wait. Patience is a virtue. Yadda Yadda Yadda

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From kv9x at scn.org  Sun May  4 18:55:06 1997
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Spring '97 Mentor/IP Orientation & Workshop
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89 SCN 1.0.9705041838.B13025-0100000@scn>

Hello Folks!

This Month SCN will be offering a Mentor Orientation to take place
on May 17th from 10am to 12 noon at a Seattle Public Library Branch.

Write to nancyk at scn.org (Nancy) to register.  No prerequisites required,
by attending the volunteer orientation is suggested.

Also ... a workshop for IPs (Information Providers) and Mentors
will follow one week later from 12 noon to 2pm.  Again, write to nancyk
to register.

Hope to see you there!

--Brian High


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From kv9x at scn.org  Sun May  4 18:55:06 1997
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 18:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Spring '97 Mentor/IP Orientation & Workshop
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89 SCN 1.0.9705041838.B13025-0100000@scn>

Hello Folks!

This Month SCN will be offering a Mentor Orientation to take place
on May 17th from 10am to 12 noon at a Seattle Public Library Branch.

Write to nancyk at scn.org (Nancy) to register.  No prerequisites required,
by attending the volunteer orientation is suggested.

Also ... a workshop for IPs (Information Providers) and Mentors
will follow one week later from 12 noon to 2pm.  Again, write to nancyk
to register.

Hope to see you there!

--Brian High


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From bi957 at scn.org  Mon May  5 13:07:57 1997
From: bi957 at scn.org (David McKinney)
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 13:07:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Barter Services
Message-ID: <199705052007.NAA10365@scn.org>

I am not sure if you are the right address to ask
about this? I am looking for a bartering services
BBS and thought there has got to be one for SCN
or then there should be one! Where is it on the
menu ??? I couldn't find it.

Sign, David in the Renton Highlands.

--
                David in Seattle
     Renton Highlands, Washington State, USA
  Phone: (425)-235-6750, E-mail: bi957 at scn.org
   if can not get thru: davidlynn at planetall.com
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From toms at scn.org  Mon May  5 14:04:47 1997
From: toms at scn.org (Tom Sparks)
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 14:04:47 -0700
Subject: Barter Services
In-Reply-To: <199705052007.NAA10365@scn.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970505140447.008ce330@scn.org>

David check Fremont Time, maybe they have what 
you are looking for, they are an "exchange network",
a sort of "skills barter" group.

Fremont Time:
	http://www.scn.org/fremont/time/

..Tom Sparks

At 01:07 PM 5/5/97 -0700, David McKinney wrote:
>I am not sure if you are the right address to ask
>about this? I am looking for a bartering services
>BBS and thought there has got to be one for SCN
>or then there should be one! Where is it on the
>menu ??? I couldn't find it.
>
>Sign, David in the Renton Highlands.

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From douglas  Mon May  5 21:17:30 1997
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 21:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Community Needs and Cyber Challenges
Message-ID: <199705060417.VAA00997@scn.org>


---------------------------------------------------------------
OK to distribute to interested colleagues and appropriate lists
---------------------------------------------------------------


               Community Needs and Cyber Challenges:

              Activists Explore Connection in Seattle


Proceedings available NOW from CPSR!!

Add to the Resource Bank at 
http://www.scn.org/tech/diac-97/resources.html

Earlier this year -- while a typical Seattle rainstorm raged -- nearly 
400 computer professionals, librarians, journalists, government 
officials, business people, and community activists gathered face-to-
face to consider an increasingly tempestuous issue: How do 
cyberspace events, policies, and use affect what happens in the 
communities in which people live?

Cyberspace with its vast physical, financial, as well as emotional 
investment, represents a techno-social tidal wave of historic 
momentum.  How much of what we hear is realistic?  How much is 
hype? What opportunities -- and what challenges -- does the 
medium offer? And, most especially, how does it affect community, 
what Matthew Dumont has called the "gossamer network of 
mutual responsibilities."

The Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility "Community 
Space and Cyberspace: What's the Connection" conference asked a 
multitude of pointed questions like "What is *work* in cyberspace?  
How can we build up -- or tear down -- our existing non-electronic 
civic networks?  Is cyberspace an agora for rich and informed 
dialogue or is it an infinite echo chamber for monologists?

CPSR has gathered papers from the panelists and workshop 
conveners into a trenchant collection of critical ideas as well as 
pragmatic projects to help carry on the important work of inventing 
an informed and humanistic future.

Please check out web site to add your information as well as search 
the conference's on-line resource bank.  We encourage everybody -- 
whether you attended the conference or not -- to read the 
proceedings, contribute to the resource bank, and follow up on any 
of these ideas in your communities.

Conference web pages: http://www.scn.org/tech/diac-97
Add information to resource bank:  
http://www.scn.org/tech/diac-97/resources.html
Search the resource bank:  Available SOON!   Watch for this!

Features articles and short pieces by

   Jamie McClelland, LIbraries for the Future
   Peter van den Besselaar, Digitale Stad (Amsterdam)
   Lodis Rhodes, LBJ School, Univ of Texas
   Bart Decrem, Plugged In
   Amy Bruckman, MIT Media Lab
   Steve Cisler, Apple
   Beth Fraser, Univ of Washington
   Madeline Gonzalez, Association For Community Networking
   Amy Borgstrom, ACENet
   Gary Chapman, 21st Century Project, LBJ School, Univ of Texas, 
   David Hakken, State University of NY
   Carolyn Lukensmeyer, America Speaks
   Richard Sclove, Loka Institute
   Ron Cole, Oregon Graudate Institute of Science and Technology
   Rusel Di Maria, DeMaria Studios
   Alex Uttermann, DeMaria Studios
   Doug Schuler, Seattle Community Network, Computer Professionals
      for Social Responsibility

   Plus 30+ workshop descriptions and a *collaborative* bibliography!

To order the DIAC '97 Proceedings for $18 (including postage), send check, 
VISA, or Mastercard information to:
CPSR, PO Box 717, Palo Alto, CA  94302  USA  
415-322-3778        415-322-4748 (fax)


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From alboss at wolfenet.com  Tue May  6 15:43:27 1997
From: alboss at wolfenet.com (Albert W. Boss)
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 15:43:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Community Resources Online! (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970506154224.27466I-100000@gonzo.wolfenet.com>

Welcome, Crisis Clinic, to the 20th century...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 14:55:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: king-socserv at scn.org
Subject: Community Resources Online!

Hi, The database of Human Services managed by Crisis Clinic of Seattle/King
County is now available online at no cost to users. Thousands of services
throughout King County are listed with program details and the database is
searchable by topic area or keyword, and also by geographical region so you
can find what you need. The address for Community Resources Online (CRO) is:

        http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/crisisclinic 

You can also get to CRO from Crisis Clinic's new web site at 
        http://crisisclinic.org

Topic Areas include: Education, Health Care, Income and economic
opportunity, Protection, law and safety, Individual and Family Life, Target
groups, Organizational systems, Basic Needs, Mental health care, and
Environmental quality. 

Thanks for your time and feel free to pass this info on!

--Philip Klein

 \o   o/
  ()\o/\
  ||/\||
----------
Philip Klein, MA, Database Projects Coordinator, SafeFutures & MOST
Child Care Resources
1265 S Main St, #210, Seattle, WA 98144 (206) 461-3213 x218 FAX:(206) 461-3726
http://childcare.org            http://www.pan.ci.seattle.wa.us/~most
http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/crisisclinic

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From douglas  Wed May  7 14:35:44 1997
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:35:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "Community Network Movement"
Message-ID: <199705072135.OAA13152@scn.org>


Marcia's recent posting about a Free-Net in Florida reminded me that
I haven't sent out word locally about the "Community Network Movement"
pages that I (and Gary Love, a student of mine) have been developing.
It has LOTS of information and pointers to community networks worldwide.

I'd love your thoughts and suggestions.

-- Doug

Ooops -- almost forgot -- http://www.scn.org/ip/commnet


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From alboss at wolfenet.com  Thu May  8 20:52:13 1997
From: alboss at wolfenet.com (Albert W. Boss)
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 20:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Network Neighborhoods (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970508203807.25951E-100000@gonzo.wolfenet.com>

Hi, folks.  My sincere apologies for any duplications of this message you
may receive.  This is a project in whose potential I strongly believe,
especially with regard to mutual benefit between NN and SCN.  

In a nutshell, Network Neighborhoods has a major component we at SCN lack:
bricks and mortar.  They have places to put community computer centers, in
HUD areas where the need is pretty high.  We have major components they
lack: SCN has a substantial volunteer base already active in computer
training and training for use of online resources.  

As we strive to extend our reach into the community, and to make sure no
one fails to rise on the information tsunami, I think working with Network
Neighborhoods has tremendous potential.  I don't see it so much as taking
on new work (Lord knows we have enough!) but as another essential channel
for work we're planning on doing anyway.

Please take the time to consider Angela's note below and to respond
directly to her if you think you can help.  Based on a phone call with her
yesterday, there's a great need for people to help them gather old
computers, make sure they work, and turn them over to deserving people.  I
know we've done this in the past; probably some among us could offer tips,
and hopefully some might even volunteer their time to help with that part.
(It's outside my area of expertise, unfortunately.)

Best wishes to all,

Al Boss

----- forwarded message -----

Date: Thu, 08 May 97 12:49:43 EST
From: Angela_Tull at hud.gov
To: Angela_Tull_at_SMTPPOST at hud.gov, alboss at scn.org
Subject: Neighborhood Networks

   
	Thank you for talking with me the other day.  I am following 
up with some information regarding the Neighborhood 	Networks 
program. This program is a national initiative by  U.S.  
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). I am seeking 
to create some  partnerships. Thank you for your help.
    
    I have been contacting organizations around the Puget Sound 
in regards to the Neighborhood Networks program. This program is 
unfunded so we focus on developing partnerships within the 
community. One of the main points is to create sustainable 
community computer learning centers. We are working with schools, 
community centers, HUD properties, religious institutions, social 
services, business and other partners in the community.  With the 
community invested in these programs, the programs will indeed be 
very successful. The following are some main points regarding the 
Neighborhood Networks program.

    The mission of this program is to enhance the 
self-sufficiency, employability, and economic self-reliance of 
low-income families and elderly living in HUD-insured and 
-assisted properties by providing residents with access to 
computer and training resources.


    Today's technology quickly becomes tomorrow's necessity and 
nowhere will this be more evident than in the workplace.  
Coinciding with welfare reform, Neighborhood Networks increases 
the employability of residents by providing opportunities for 
education and job training. Residents may have direct online 
access to thousands of career job opportunities.

    The idea behind Neighborhood Networks is that a community can 
combine its resources, build computer learning center, and bring 
the 21st century to the doorstep of residents who otherwise may 
not have access to technology.


    I am hoping to create a partnership with your organization. I
    understand that your organization is very interested 
investing in the community and does provide support for 
educational programs. The Neighborhood Networks program needs not 
just computers and software, but technical support as well.


    The Neighborhood Networks centers have the following needs.

    * The Neighborhood Networks centers initially have to submit 
a proposal that outlines the computer center's budget, and 
long-term plan for  the sustainability of the center. It would be 
helpful if volunteers with technical knowledge can help the 
centers with their proposals.

    * NN needs technical support in putting computer systems 
together, technical advice, online coordination, volunteer 
consulting, etc.

    * NN needs people who are interested in teaching computer 
skills, job skills, Internet training, web page creation and 
software installation. It is also important to train the 
community members who utilize the Neighborhood Networks center on 
how to maintain the computers. This is an important part of 
sustainability.

    * NN needs used and new computers, modems, printers, cables, 
memory boards, etc.


    If you are interested in participating in this program, 
please let me know. There are many Neighborhood Networks centers 
within the King County area. Please respond back to :


    Angela Tull     Neighborhood Networks Resource Coordinator

    E-mail: angela_tull at hud.gov

    Phone: (206) 220-5222 #3135




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From douglas  Fri May  9 12:33:37 1997
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:33:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Apple Awards - FYI
Message-ID: <199705091933.MAA05919@scn.org>


Our friends in the Tri-Cities are among the winners in this year's
equipment awards from Apple.  Congratulations!

--Doug

PS.  Maybe SCN can be among the winners next year...



                                        Press Release

The RECA Foundation just received word that we are among the winners
of this year's equipment awards from the Apple Computer, Inc./CTCNet
partnership program.  

There are now over 150 affiliate members of CTCNet - Community
Technology Centers around the world.  See www.ctcnet.org for more
information.

The award includes five Power Macs, software, a scanner, and a digital
video camera.  The RECA Foundation partnered with the Washington State
Migrant Council and will establish a Community Technology Center in the
Pasco location [5th and Court].  Representatives from both
organizations will travel to Pittsburg, Pa in mid-June to receive two
days of training by Apple Computer and take ownership of the
equipment.  Following the training, is the annual all affiliates
meeting for CTCNet.

Below is a list of other winners - very impressive company!

Ability Center of Greater Toledo, Oh
Austin Free-Net, Tx
AVTEC (Alaska Vocational Technical Education), Ak
Barrio Action Youth and Family Center, Ca
Boston Photo Collaborative, Ma
Calvary Bilingual Multicultural Learning Center, DC
Chavis Lifelong Learning Branch, NC
Community TV of Santa Cruz, Ca
East End Community Organization, Oh
El Centrito De La Colonia, Ca
Falmouth Community Television, Ma
J. Bennett Johnson Learning Center at My House, La
Jewish Community Center, Mn
Latimer Education Program, NY
Marietta Area Community Computing Center, Oh
Neighborhood House of Milwaukee, Wi
North Light COmmunity Center, Pa
Philadelphia Parent Child Center, Pa
Plugged In, Ca
Portland Museum, Ky
Prologue Alternative High School, Il
Street-Level Youth Media, Il
TechnoTots, Ky
Virtually Wired Educational Foundation, Ma
YWCA Boston/Youth Voice Collaboration, Ma


       The Tri-Cities should be proud!

 Bruce McComb, Executive Director
                                RECA FOUNDATION
                   605 South Olympia #74  Kennewick, Wa 99336
                Phone:  (509) 543-2910  e-mail:  sysop at tcfn.org
                                        
                                         PROGRAMS
* TCFN     Tri-Cities Free-Net, Modem: (509) 543-2900,
telnet://tcfn.org,                 http://www.tcfn.org

* CBPIN    Columbia Basin Public Information Network
                   http://www.tcfn.org/cbpin.htm
Founding members:  Arts Council of the Mid-Columbia Region, BOSS
Internet Group, Educational Service District 123, Franklin County,
Mid-Columbia Library, NW Public Television, Washington State University
Cooperative Extension, and Tri-Cities Free-Net (TCFN)

"Never separate the life that you live from the words that you spread"

      - Albert Schweitzer



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From rclark at pop.aa.net  Sun May 11 15:21:46 1997
From: rclark at pop.aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:21:46 +0000
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.94.970511160316.29855B-100000@scn>
References: <199705101439.HAA00265@blaze.accessone.com>
Message-ID: <199705120522.WAA02127@moon.aa.net>

Nancy K. wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> As I've stated before, we have a perfectly good list that we use for
> information and communication that is non-specific to a
> particular committee...and it is     scn at scn.org
> 
> Maybe we need to make it more clear somewhere.

Nancy, 

Maybe you need to reconsider having 17 mailing lists. (That's
the current number that I'm aware of, with the recent addition
of the Planning list.)

I'd be very happy to see 6 lists, at most.

Rod Clark
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From nancyk at scn.org  Sun May 11 22:34:03 1997
From: nancyk at scn.org (Nancyk)
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:34:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705120522.WAA02127@moon.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.94.970511222717.28160B-100000@scn>

Hi Rod,

I know that some of the lists are under-utilized, but each committee
should have at least one mailing list for the communication of it's
members.  Plus the smaller and larger mailing lists for whatever they
are for... 

Thanks,
Nancy

On Sun, 11 May 1997, Rod Clark wrote:

> Maybe you need to reconsider having 17 mailing lists. (That's
> the current number that I'm aware of, with the recent addition
> of the Planning list.)
> 
> I'd be very happy to see 6 lists, at most.


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From rclark at aa.net  Sun May 11 15:55:10 1997
From: rclark at aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:55:10 +0000
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.94.970511222717.28160B-100000@scn>
References: <199705120522.WAA02127@moon.aa.net>
Message-ID: <199705120556.WAA14477@big.aa.net>

> I know that some of the lists are under-utilized, but each committee
> should have at least one mailing list for the communication of it's
> members.  Plus the smaller and larger mailing lists for whatever they
> are for... 

Nancy, 

It's not necessarily only the mailing lists that are too
numerous and underutilized - you could say that about quite a
few of the committees. 

I'm not going to subscribe to all the excessive number of SCN
lists that I'd need to subscribe to, if I actually wanted to
know more about what's going on. There are far too many SCN
mailing lists now - again, there literally are seventeen (17)
mailing lists. The sheer number of them is becoming more of a
communications problem than it's worth, at least for me. Having
this number of mailing lists is absolutely ridiculous. Why do
you think that every group whose members may or may not send a
message every six months needs its own list? It does not.

Rod Clark
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From nancyk at scn.org  Sun May 11 23:04:08 1997
From: nancyk at scn.org (Nancyk)
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:04:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705120556.WAA14477@big.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.94.970511230051.28160L-100000@scn>

Hi Rod,

Actually, I don't know where you are going with this.  All I'm saying is
that for general communication (such as discussions that would benefit
more than one committee) we need to use the scn at scn mailing list.

I, for one, am appreciative that I'm only receiving one copy (plus the
original in this thread) of this conversation.  :)

Nancy

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From rclark at aa.net  Sun May 11 23:22:46 1997
From: rclark at aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:22:46 -0700
Subject: Articles
Message-ID: <199705120622.XAA17659@montana.nwlink.com>


>Nancy, 
>
>It's not necessarily only the mailing lists that are too
>numerous and underutilized - you could say that about quite a
>few of the committees. 
>
>Why do you think that every group whose members may or may not send a
>message every six months needs its own list? It does not.
>
>Rod Clark


Rod,

What do you propose as a positive solution? And why the judgemental tone?
There are sixteen SCN lists by my count, if that is too many why is it too
many? You don't make that clear in your posting. I am truly curious as to
why this raises your ire.

Andrew


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From rclark at aa.net  Sun May 11 16:38:11 1997
From: rclark at aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:38:11 +0000
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705120622.XAA17659@montana.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <199705120639.XAA17499@big.aa.net>

> What do you propose as a positive solution? And why the judgemental tone?
> There are sixteen SCN lists by my count, if that is too many why is it too
> many? You don't make that clear in your posting. I am truly curious as to
> why this raises your ire.

Andrew, 

I propose re-inventing half a dozen mailing lists that would be
places for people to stay generally informed about broad
subject areas. 

As to why I have my own particular personality - well, go
figure.

The seventeenth one that you're missing is a new one, Planning.
But if you've been following things, lots of the planning
related duscussions have actually taken place in other venues
than the erstwhile planning list, which basically goes to show
that it's just another fragnmented, silly addition, that splits
worthwhile conversations among yet more lists, so that people
now have to subscribe to it as well as all the others. Pleh!

Planning decisions are important enough that they should involve
widely distributed conversations, not tucked away among a small
number of people on a specialized list. Lots of people should
have a chance to contribute, and to stay up to date on that. 

Rod Clark
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From awh at nwlink.com  Sun May 11 23:59:08 1997
From: awh at nwlink.com (awh at nwlink.com)
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 23:59:08 -0700
Subject: Articles
Message-ID: <199705120659.XAA23217@montana.nwlink.com>

At 11:38 PM 5/11/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> What do you propose as a positive solution? And why the judgemental tone?

>As to why I have my own particular personality - well, go
>figure.
>

Tht's what I'm trying to do, figure out the reason you have a tone of
omniscience and finality in your pronouncements for what SCN should do and be.

>I propose re-inventing half a dozen mailing lists that would be
>places for people to stay generally informed about broad
>subject areas. 
>

Please elaborate. How would you propose this be done?


>The seventeenth one that you're missing is a new one, Planning.

Oops, you're right! And I'm part of the committee. 


>But if you've been following things, lots of the planning
>related duscussions have actually taken place in other venues
>than the erstwhile planning list, which basically goes to show
>that it's just another fragnmented, silly addition, that splits
>worthwhile conversations among yet more lists, so that people
>now have to subscribe to it as well as all the others. Pleh!
>

Perhaps they have taken place in other fora because the Planning list did
not exist. It is brand new.

>Planning decisions are important enough that they should involve
>widely distributed conversations, not tucked away among a small
>number of people on a specialized list. Lots of people should
>have a chance to contribute, and to stay up to date on that. 


If planning decisions are so important (as I agree they are) then why is the
topic unworthy of a mailing list. Rather than being "just another
fragnmented, silly addition"
I think it can help coalesce discussions that have been disjointed.

People can subscribe to as many or as few of the lists as they please. If
you can define a plan to pare them down well and effectively then bravo!
Have at it.

Andrew






>
>Rod Clark
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>

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From rclark at pop.aa.net  Mon May 12 00:55:56 1997
From: rclark at pop.aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:55:56 +0000
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705120659.XAA23217@montana.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <199705121456.HAA14143@moon.aa.net>

> Please elaborate. How would you propose this be done?

Andrew, 

Well, I'd hope that people would discuss it for a while, and
figure out whether they think it's a good idea to consolidate
some of them, or not. I'm probably not the only one who's
noticed that there are scattered, overlapping multiple lists
with largely the same core of subscribers. But I can't make a
change like that, and can only try to persuade people to take a
look at it. If no one else thinks the multiplicity of lists is
counterproductive, then the discussion will quickly die off and
there won't be any change in the situation. 

> >The seventeenth one that you're missing is a new one,
> Planning.
> 
> Oops, you're right! And I'm part of the committee. 

Actually, I'd like to see the planning discussions take place
among as broad a base of people and in as much daylight as
possible, for example on the scn at scn.org list. Now (excluding 
anything with "test" in it) we're down to 16 lists.

The webmasters list, which seldom has messages on it, could be 
combined with another more alive list, say services. Those 
committees already meet jointly. Now we're down to 15 lists.

What in the world is the scninfo list for? Why not combine it
with something that's actually being used? Now we're down to 14.

I'm a member of the roadshow list, and I can't remember a
single message for the past six months. This doesn't necessarily
have to be separate from outreach, does it? If not, then we're
down to 13 lists.

The overlapping messages on outreach and services were what
started this whole discussion. Maybe these two could be combined
with little loss of functionality. If so, now we're down to 12.

There's a policy list. Has anyone ever seen any discussions on
it? If users need an address to ask confidential questions to a
closed mailing list having to do with policy, they could ask
them of the scna-board list. That's probably pretty infrequent,
though. If the questions aren't of a private nature, as with
"Why don't we change the such-and-such policy?" then they could
go to the scn list for general discussion. If this makes sense,
then we're down to 11.

I'm a member of the marketplace list, but I haven't seen
messages on it for a very long time. It was supposed to be part
of outreach, anyway. If a few marketplace related questions
could be answered on a more general list every once in a while,
then we're down to 10.

The mentors have their own list, but I have no idea what they
do with it. Lots of the IPs still have outdated material, and if
the mentors aren't asking questions or solving that by working
with the people on the services list, then what's the purpose
of isolating them on a separate list, when a lot of the people
who could help them apparently don't subscribe to that list? So
quite possibly we're down to 9 lists now.

Hardware is a separate area, and it makes sense to have a list 
for those discussions.

The closed scna-board list also seems to fit its purpose well.
The fundraising list is a closed list that's separate from
scna-board.

The projects list never took off, and has never been used for
anything. So we're down to 8 lists.

The webmaster at scn.org list exists only because with a regular ID
you can't have more than 8 characters, so that was the only way
to create that mailto address.

Services1 and Services2 ...??? Assuming one of them is useful
but not both, we're down to 7 lists, and here they are:

scna-board - closed (equivalent to executive session - all other 
policy discussions should be discussed openly on the scn list)

fundraising - closed

hardware - closed

services1 - closed (maybe rename to info-providers)

services - open (outreach, roadshow, webmasters, mentors,
marketplace, projects... move the general discussions to scn)

scn - open (for general discussions, including discussions 
about planning and policy changes)

webmaster at scn.org - for a standard mailto address 
----- 

That's 7 instead of 6. I'd be comfortable with that. Maybe some
people wouldn't. Any thoughts?

Rod Clark
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From douglas  Mon May 12 10:21:15 1997
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:21:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Virtually Wired
Message-ID: <199705121721.KAA28129@scn.org>


Subject: Article from page C1 of the 05/08/97 Boston Globe 

The following is the text of an article that ran on page C1 of the
Boston Globe on 05/08/97. It has been picked up by the Associated Press
and the New York Times for possible distribution to their syndicated
news clients.
_________________

HEADLINE: Cyberspot for have-nots faces pulling of the plug

BYLINE:	By Joann Muller, Globe Staff, 05/08/97 

Sometimes, a good idea just isn't good enough. 

The concept behind Virtually Wired certainly seemed praiseworthy: Open a
nonprofit computer access center where, for a nominal fee, people who
didn't have a computer at home or at work could venture into cyberspace
at their own pace, with support and encouragement from a staff of
friendly volunteers. 

But after two years of operations on a shoestring budget, Virtually Wired
is about to be unplugged. 

The organization has lost its lease on a Downtown Crossing storefront,
and can't afford to move to new quarters. 

``We'll never find another rent like this,'' said Coralee Whitcomb, 46,
a former Bentley College computer instructor who has run Virtually Wired
since it opened in April 1995. The organization paid next to nothing for
the 3,000-square-foot space on Temple Place because the property was
owned by one of the founders of Virtually Wired. 

But now, the landlord, who is no longer involved with the organization,
has filed for bankruptcy protection and the building is for sale. 

Another blow came a few weeks ago when Whitcomb discovered a
``bookkeeping problem'' - an inexperienced volunteer who overstated the
amount of revenue the organization was taking in each month. 

Taken together, the two problems might leave Virtually Wired with no
choice but to close, Whitcomb said. 

``It doesn't take much for us to get the wind knocked out of our
sails,'' said Whitcomb. ``We're not able to sustain many hits.'' 

Whitcomb said the center might be open at Downtown Crossing only up to
June 1. But the self-described computer activist, whose life passion is
to close the gap between the technology haves and have-nots, isn't
discouraged. 

``It doesn't mean Virtually Wired has to disintegrate and blow away,''
she said. ``We've got some neat ideas about how to reinvent it.'' 

In fact, as news of Virtually Wired's predicament spread last week,
several organizations stepped forward with proposals to collaborate in
ways that would keep its spirit alive, Whitcomb said. She wouldn't say
more about the talks, however, until details are worked out. 

Whitcomb said Virtually Wired can't survive on its own without financial
backing from corporations or government. 

``These places are really important if America wants to do what it says
it wants to do, and that's to get everybody computer literate,'' she
said. 

One competitor that has managed to thrive because of corporate and
individual donations is the Computer Clubhouse, an offshoot of Boston's
Computer Museum. 

Director Gail Breslow acknowledges that in the world of nonprofit
organizations, ``money follows money,'' which is one reason the Computer
Clubhouse has survived while Virtually Wired is struggling. 

There are now five Computer Clubhouses in operation - four in Boston and
one in Germany - that provide creative, informal learning environments
for urban youth. Backers include Reebok, Nynex, Microsoft, and Lotus. 

While public-access computer centers and trendy ``cybercafes'' are
sprouting up in many communities, Virtually Wired stands out because of
its efforts to reach disadvantaged populations, including the homeless.

While some cybercafes might charge $8 to $12 an hour to use one of their
computers, Virtually Wired sells passes for $3 a day or $10 a month. 

Libraries are increasingly setting up computers for free public access,
but they often limit users to one hour at a time. ``We insist that
people stay as long as they want,'' Whitcomb said. 

While computer centers are also popping up in YMCAs and other community
agencies, many of these are just now getting computers with Internet
access. 

Whitcomb's center is staffed by about 70 volunteers, some of whom were
homeless or unemployed at one time and wandered into Virtually Wired in
hopes of learning skills that would get them back on their feet. 

Service is provided on a drop-in basis for people who are intimidated by
the hype about the Internet, or who just want to learn about the World
Wide Web. 

Classes are offered on topics ranging from word processing and
spreadsheets to Web page design. One of the most popular public services
is an Internet job-search software program designed by a volunteer
software consultant. 

Virtually Wired also hosts children from several urban day care centers
and summer camps to teach them about computers. 

While she fights to save these and other programs, Whitcomb is
philosophical about Virtually Wired's mission. 

``If it dies, it'll be because it went too slow. Not because we were
doing the wrong things.''



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From toms at scn.org  Mon May 12 12:32:09 1997
From: toms at scn.org (Tom Sparks)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 12:32:09 -0700
Subject: Articles (mail-lists)
In-Reply-To: <199705121456.HAA14143@moon.aa.net>
References: <199705120659.XAA23217@montana.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970512123209.008b0eb0@scn.org>

As the owner of webmasters at scn.org. I am willing to post 
to subscribers to that list, telling them that from this point
forward all SCN web conversations will take place on the 
services mail list.

Webmasters is no longer a committee, not even a sub-committee
so I think this is appropriate.

..Tom Sparks
  former chair of the Webmasters Committee
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From awh at nwlink.com  Mon May 12 13:35:29 1997
From: awh at nwlink.com (awh at nwlink.com)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:35:29 -0700
Subject: Articles
Message-ID: <199705122035.NAA09900@montana.nwlink.com>


Rod,
        
I think your ideas on combining the lists, paring the number down has merit
and think the outline you provide is a very good start. Bravo, you _did_
have at it!

Andrew


>Services1 and Services2 ...??? Assuming one of them is useful
>but not both, we're down to 7 lists, and here they are:
>
>scna-board - closed (equivalent to executive session - all other 
>policy discussions should be discussed openly on the scn list)
>
>fundraising - closed
>
>hardware - closed
>
>services1 - closed (maybe rename to info-providers)
>
>services - open (outreach, roadshow, webmasters, mentors,
>marketplace, projects... move the general discussions to scn)
>
>scn - open (for general discussions, including discussions 
>about planning and policy changes)
>
>webmaster at scn.org - for a standard mailto address 
>----- 
>
>That's 7 instead of 6. I'd be comfortable with that. Maybe some
>people wouldn't. Any thoughts?
>
>Rod Clark
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From namioka at netcom.com  Mon May 12 14:10:52 1997
From: namioka at netcom.com (Aki Namioka)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:10:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Agenda - SCNA Board Meeting (May 14)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9705121443.A5848-0100000@netcom5.netcom.com>

Agenda for 
SCNA Board Meeting
May 14, 1997
7:00 - 8:45 (105 minutes total)
Queen Anne Branch Library

I. 7:00 - 7:05 Review Agenda (Aki)
II. 7:05 - 7:10 Approve Minutes from April board meeting (Carlos)
III. 7:10 - 7:30 Fundraising Committee structure (Marcia Bender) 20 minutes
IV. 7:30 - 7:45 Newsletter (Jim)
V. 7:45 - 8:05 Committee Meeting results - approval of SCNA committee structure (Lorraine)
VI. 8:05 - 8:15 Registration subtask results - next steps (Aki & Carlos)
VII. 8:15 - 8:30 Elections (Tom & Carlos)
VIII. 8:30 - 8:45 Volunteer code of conduct (Nancy)

We have a lot of material to cover this time, therefore, I will start the
meeting at 7:00 - straight up. 

- Thanks, Aki
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From jmabel at speakeasy.org  Mon May 12 18:55:07 1997
From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (Joe Mabel)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 18:55:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Virtually Wired
In-Reply-To: <199705121721.KAA28129@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970512185428.21458A-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

So has anyone from SCN contacted these guys to share experience & see if
we can help with ideas? 

On Mon, 12 May 1997, Doug Schuler wrote:

> 
> Subject: Article from page C1 of the 05/08/97 Boston Globe 
> 
> The following is the text of an article that ran on page C1 of the
> Boston Globe on 05/08/97. It has been picked up by the Associated Press
> and the New York Times for possible distribution to their syndicated
> news clients.
> _________________
> 
> HEADLINE: Cyberspot for have-nots faces pulling of the plug
> 
> BYLINE:	By Joann Muller, Globe Staff, 05/08/97 
> 
> Sometimes, a good idea just isn't good enough. 
> 
> The concept behind Virtually Wired certainly seemed praiseworthy: Open a
> nonprofit computer access center where, for a nominal fee, people who
> didn't have a computer at home or at work could venture into cyberspace
> at their own pace, with support and encouragement from a staff of
> friendly volunteers. 
> 
> But after two years of operations on a shoestring budget, Virtually Wired
> is about to be unplugged. 
> 
> The organization has lost its lease on a Downtown Crossing storefront,
> and can't afford to move to new quarters. 
> 
> ``We'll never find another rent like this,'' said Coralee Whitcomb, 46,
> a former Bentley College computer instructor who has run Virtually Wired
> since it opened in April 1995. The organization paid next to nothing for
> the 3,000-square-foot space on Temple Place because the property was
> owned by one of the founders of Virtually Wired. 
> 
> But now, the landlord, who is no longer involved with the organization,
> has filed for bankruptcy protection and the building is for sale. 
> 
> Another blow came a few weeks ago when Whitcomb discovered a
> ``bookkeeping problem'' - an inexperienced volunteer who overstated the
> amount of revenue the organization was taking in each month. 
> 
> Taken together, the two problems might leave Virtually Wired with no
> choice but to close, Whitcomb said. 
> 
> ``It doesn't take much for us to get the wind knocked out of our
> sails,'' said Whitcomb. ``We're not able to sustain many hits.'' 
> 
> Whitcomb said the center might be open at Downtown Crossing only up to
> June 1. But the self-described computer activist, whose life passion is
> to close the gap between the technology haves and have-nots, isn't
> discouraged. 
> 
> ``It doesn't mean Virtually Wired has to disintegrate and blow away,''
> she said. ``We've got some neat ideas about how to reinvent it.'' 
> 
> In fact, as news of Virtually Wired's predicament spread last week,
> several organizations stepped forward with proposals to collaborate in
> ways that would keep its spirit alive, Whitcomb said. She wouldn't say
> more about the talks, however, until details are worked out. 
> 
> Whitcomb said Virtually Wired can't survive on its own without financial
> backing from corporations or government. 
> 
> ``These places are really important if America wants to do what it says
> it wants to do, and that's to get everybody computer literate,'' she
> said. 
> 
> One competitor that has managed to thrive because of corporate and
> individual donations is the Computer Clubhouse, an offshoot of Boston's
> Computer Museum. 
> 
> Director Gail Breslow acknowledges that in the world of nonprofit
> organizations, ``money follows money,'' which is one reason the Computer
> Clubhouse has survived while Virtually Wired is struggling. 
> 
> There are now five Computer Clubhouses in operation - four in Boston and
> one in Germany - that provide creative, informal learning environments
> for urban youth. Backers include Reebok, Nynex, Microsoft, and Lotus. 
> 
> While public-access computer centers and trendy ``cybercafes'' are
> sprouting up in many communities, Virtually Wired stands out because of
> its efforts to reach disadvantaged populations, including the homeless.
> 
> While some cybercafes might charge $8 to $12 an hour to use one of their
> computers, Virtually Wired sells passes for $3 a day or $10 a month. 
> 
> Libraries are increasingly setting up computers for free public access,
> but they often limit users to one hour at a time. ``We insist that
> people stay as long as they want,'' Whitcomb said. 
> 
> While computer centers are also popping up in YMCAs and other community
> agencies, many of these are just now getting computers with Internet
> access. 
> 
> Whitcomb's center is staffed by about 70 volunteers, some of whom were
> homeless or unemployed at one time and wandered into Virtually Wired in
> hopes of learning skills that would get them back on their feet. 
> 
> Service is provided on a drop-in basis for people who are intimidated by
> the hype about the Internet, or who just want to learn about the World
> Wide Web. 
> 
> Classes are offered on topics ranging from word processing and
> spreadsheets to Web page design. One of the most popular public services
> is an Internet job-search software program designed by a volunteer
> software consultant. 
> 
> Virtually Wired also hosts children from several urban day care centers
> and summer camps to teach them about computers. 
> 
> While she fights to save these and other programs, Whitcomb is
> philosophical about Virtually Wired's mission. 
> 
> ``If it dies, it'll be because it went too slow. Not because we were
> doing the wrong things.''
> 
> 
> 
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> 

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From namioka at netcom.com  Tue May 13 08:57:31 1997
From: namioka at netcom.com (Aki Namioka)
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: coming June 7th... (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9705130841.A16502-0100000@netcom17>

Mark your calendars:  Seattle Community Network is a member of the 
Seattle Independent Media Coaltion - forward this to interested parties.

Thanks, Aki
------------------------------------------------------------------------
	
	admit * two * admit * two

	the seattle independent
	media cabal invites you to...

	F      R      E      E 


	    our public air-


	W    A    V    E    S !
		

	a nomadic, multi-media
	Crash and Burn
	closing night bash
	for SATELLITES '97

	- Guerilla Internet, TV, Film and Print
	- Pirate Radio simulcast on 89.1 FM
	- Video Communique from Zapatista
	  Leader Subcomandante Marcos


	Saturday June 7th
	2330 1st Avenue
	(Paramount Studios
	Film Vaults @ 1st
	and Battery - code
	name "Catholic Seaman's Club")

	Join us for complimentary cocktails
	(from 8 to 9 PM)

	5 bucks donation benefits the Seattle
	Independent Media Coalition.

	Call (206) 340-2681 for more details
	or send e-mail to citizen at speakeasy.org


	admit * two * admit * two


		


		*** *   *     *    *    *   *  * ***


[promotion/hype update] --> see Monday May 5th seattle times for a full
spread on the madness; we made the cover of the scene section.  copies
available on the times web site, and eric is probably hoarding some as
well.]

			*  *  *  *  *  *

8 to 9:30pm   	doors open; guests arrive and are "de-briefed", 
		complimentary cocktails til 9pm; music mix courtesy of
		strawman and f.u.c.c. 89.1 FM

9:30-10:30	"show" begins; highlights from the independent 
		cabal.  jeff pearson as m.c. presents...

		(as of 5/10/97)
		- internet (mike apgar on r.a.i.n. terminals, and 
		aki from scn to speak, doomed planet to webcast, media
		watch skit as a live remote),
		
		tv (vagrom presents subcomandante marcos, dtn, earth talk,
		offline, dziga, blackchair, and clips from
		network x and eoaim's video file),
		
		radio (sheri herndon, f.u.c.c., mind over matters, Brain
		Free Brain with Vivian McPeak, Earth on the Air tapes
		available), 

		and print (mark gardener, free press, is lining up kalle
		lassn, publisher of adbusters, or a crony to compliment
		eat the state, the free press, steelhead, real change
		spoken word, yes! included).


10:30 - 1am	full on party with band and dancing and mixed, mixed media
		madness.  vault spaces open for skits, displays, et 
		cetera.











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From namioka at netcom.com  Tue May 13 09:26:09 1997
From: namioka at netcom.com (Aki Namioka)
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CPSR/Seattle Meeting
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9705130918.A16502-0100000@netcom17>

PLEASE FORWARD TO INTERSTED PARTIES.  Carl or Doug please forward to DIAC 
list.

Hey Everybody - CPSR/Seattle has a meeting scheduled and we would love to 
see you there.

- Aki
--------------------------------------------

CPSR/Seattle Chapter Meeting
Mon, May 19th
7:00 PM
College Inn Pub (basement)

For more info contact karyn at oz.net

Agenda:

1. Elect New President (yes - we have a candidate)
2. DIAC - it was great - where do we go from here?
3. Newsletter - who, what, when, how?
4. Update on CPSR national from Aki (President)
5. Regional report from Carl Page (NW Regional Director)
6. WA state legislative update from Janeane Dubaur

College Inn Pub
400 University Way NE
downstairs, back room
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From michaelh at scn.org  Mon May 12 14:43:26 1997
From: michaelh at scn.org (michaelh at scn.org)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 14:43:26 -0700
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705121456.HAA14143@moon.aa.net>
Message-ID: <+74dzMnJqY4M091yn@scn.org>

  Certainly some of the old, unused lists could be trimmed, but
having at least one list per commitee is good.  The big problem with
the net is filtering - cutting down all the data to a manageable
chunk.  Having different lists for different topics makes this easier
(mail-reader can sort them into different folders, etc.)

>There's a policy list. Has anyone ever seen any discussions on
>it? 
Yes I have, there was quite a bit of discussion when we were creating
the SCN principles. 

As a member of the policy committee, I think the policy list is not
useless.  However, if that committee is disolved, then perhaps policy
should simply be forwarded to the new list for discussion of policy.

--
>services - open (outreach, roadshow, webmasters, mentors,
>marketplace, projects... move the general discussions to scn)

I don't think it makes sense to combine quite so many lists into
services (services is already a prety busy list.)
The Outreach function was clearly distinct from what services does,
(services deals with the running of scn - outreach with other
organizations, donations, fundraising, networking with other groups,
etc.)  I think this split is useful, and should be kept (people
interested in helping with web authoring may not want the mail about
organizing e-mail classes, etc.).  (As far as combining marketplace
and roadshow into outreach, from whence they sprang - fine)
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From rclark at pop.aa.net  Tue May 13 07:28:17 1997
From: rclark at pop.aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:28:17 +0000
Subject: Mailing list consolidation (was: Re: Articles)
In-Reply-To: <199705121456.HAA14143@moon.aa.net>
References: <199705120659.XAA23217@montana.nwlink.com>
Message-ID: <199705132126.OAA07162@moon.aa.net>

Michael, 

What policy committee? There may have been one a few years ago,
when the Principles you mentioned were being drawn up. But
since late 1995 or so, I've never seen a Policy meeting
advertised, or any minutes of any meetings they may have had, or
any descriptions of whatever thay may have considered or
decided. As far as I know, at present, policy is a matter for
the new expanded board. But please let me know if you know of a
policy committee that's still in existence. And what they're
doing, if anything.

Thanks for your notes about outreach. This list consolidation
proposal probably won't ever get off the ground, but here's a
second draft:

1. scna-board - closed (equivalent to executive session - all
other policy discussions should be discussed openly on the scn
list)

2. hardware - closed (closed lists shouldn't be used for SCN
services or policy discussions, except when system security or
such considerations mandates confidentiality) 

3. services1 - closed? (rename to info-providers)

4. services - open (includes webmasters, mentors, 
volunteer projects... move the general discussions to scn) 

5. outreach - open (includes roadshow, marketplace, fundraising)

6. scn - open (for general discussions, including discussions 
about planning and policy changes)

7. webmaster at scn.org - to have a 9-character mailto address.

Rod Clark
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From steve at accessone.com  Tue May 13 15:58:53 1997
From: steve at accessone.com (Steve Hoffman)
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:58:53 -800
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <+74dzMnJqY4M091yn@scn.org>
References: <199705121456.HAA14143@moon.aa.net>
Message-ID: <199705132200.PAA22271@blaze.accessone.com>

>Having different lists for different topics makes this easier

That can be true, but it's often difficult to figure out which list 
is appropriate.  On the other hand, I may have that problem because 
the mandate of some committees (such as Services) is kind of 
ambiguous.

> I don't think it makes sense to combine quite so many lists into
> services (services is already a prety busy list.)

Services doesn't seem very busy to me, but perhaps I'm missing 
something?

...Steve
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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Wed May 14 11:43:40 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Barter Services
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970505140447.008ce330@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970514114113.21440N-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


> David check Fremont Time, maybe they have what 
> you are looking for, they are an "exchange network",
> a sort of "skills barter" group.
> 
> Fremont Time:
> 	http://www.scn.org/fremont/time/

There are others looking into what you are looking at.  I'm aware of one
person locally who has experience with transaction servers who is looking
at it, and others nationally that are doing it.

A volunteer 'transaction' server for SCN makes **a lot** of sense for SCN
and its member organizations.  I'd believe that it is a fairly safe bet to
happen at some point in the future.  If you are interested in helping to
make it happen I'd be happy to dig through my files for the relevant
contact info.

-Douglas Tooley



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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Wed May 14 12:32:10 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Network Neighborhoods (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95.970508203807.25951E-100000@gonzo.wolfenet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970514122946.563D-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Al-

I've continued to think through/develop a proposal regarding this idea.
I've not been granted any authority on it but I'm still working towards a
formal proposal for a demonstration program.  

Perhaps we should ask the board for permission to form an 'ad-hoc'
committee on the subject?  If you wanted to chair it that would be
acceptable to me, and I'd also be willing to chair, as well.

-Doug T.


On Thu, 8 May 1997, Albert W. Boss wrote:

> Hi, folks.  My sincere apologies for any duplications of this message you
> may receive.  This is a project in whose potential I strongly believe,
> especially with regard to mutual benefit between NN and SCN.  
> 
> In a nutshell, Network Neighborhoods has a major component we at SCN lack:
> bricks and mortar.  They have places to put community computer centers, in
> HUD areas where the need is pretty high.  We have major components they
> lack: SCN has a substantial volunteer base already active in computer
> training and training for use of online resources.  
> 
> As we strive to extend our reach into the community, and to make sure no
> one fails to rise on the information tsunami, I think working with Network
> Neighborhoods has tremendous potential.  I don't see it so much as taking
> on new work (Lord knows we have enough!) but as another essential channel
> for work we're planning on doing anyway.
> 
> Please take the time to consider Angela's note below and to respond
> directly to her if you think you can help.  Based on a phone call with her
> yesterday, there's a great need for people to help them gather old
> computers, make sure they work, and turn them over to deserving people.  I
> know we've done this in the past; probably some among us could offer tips,
> and hopefully some might even volunteer their time to help with that part.
> (It's outside my area of expertise, unfortunately.)
> 
> Best wishes to all,
> 
> Al Boss
> 
> ----- forwarded message -----
> 
> Date: Thu, 08 May 97 12:49:43 EST
> From: Angela_Tull at hud.gov
> To: Angela_Tull_at_SMTPPOST at hud.gov, alboss at scn.org
> Subject: Neighborhood Networks
> 
>    
> 	Thank you for talking with me the other day.  I am following 
> up with some information regarding the Neighborhood 	Networks 
> program. This program is a national initiative by  U.S.  
> Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). I am seeking 
> to create some  partnerships. Thank you for your help.
>     
>     I have been contacting organizations around the Puget Sound 
> in regards to the Neighborhood Networks program. This program is 
> unfunded so we focus on developing partnerships within the 
> community. One of the main points is to create sustainable 
> community computer learning centers. We are working with schools, 
> community centers, HUD properties, religious institutions, social 
> services, business and other partners in the community.  With the 
> community invested in these programs, the programs will indeed be 
> very successful. The following are some main points regarding the 
> Neighborhood Networks program.
> 
>     The mission of this program is to enhance the 
> self-sufficiency, employability, and economic self-reliance of 
> low-income families and elderly living in HUD-insured and 
> -assisted properties by providing residents with access to 
> computer and training resources.
> 
> 
>     Today's technology quickly becomes tomorrow's necessity and 
> nowhere will this be more evident than in the workplace.  
> Coinciding with welfare reform, Neighborhood Networks increases 
> the employability of residents by providing opportunities for 
> education and job training. Residents may have direct online 
> access to thousands of career job opportunities.
> 
>     The idea behind Neighborhood Networks is that a community can 
> combine its resources, build computer learning center, and bring 
> the 21st century to the doorstep of residents who otherwise may 
> not have access to technology.
> 
> 
>     I am hoping to create a partnership with your organization. I
>     understand that your organization is very interested 
> investing in the community and does provide support for 
> educational programs. The Neighborhood Networks program needs not 
> just computers and software, but technical support as well.
> 
> 
>     The Neighborhood Networks centers have the following needs.
> 
>     * The Neighborhood Networks centers initially have to submit 
> a proposal that outlines the computer center's budget, and 
> long-term plan for  the sustainability of the center. It would be 
> helpful if volunteers with technical knowledge can help the 
> centers with their proposals.
> 
>     * NN needs technical support in putting computer systems 
> together, technical advice, online coordination, volunteer 
> consulting, etc.
> 
>     * NN needs people who are interested in teaching computer 
> skills, job skills, Internet training, web page creation and 
> software installation. It is also important to train the 
> community members who utilize the Neighborhood Networks center on 
> how to maintain the computers. This is an important part of 
> sustainability.
> 
>     * NN needs used and new computers, modems, printers, cables, 
> memory boards, etc.
> 
> 
>     If you are interested in participating in this program, 
> please let me know. There are many Neighborhood Networks centers 
> within the King County area. Please respond back to :
> 
> 
>     Angela Tull     Neighborhood Networks Resource Coordinator
> 
>     E-mail: angela_tull at hud.gov
> 
>     Phone: (206) 220-5222 #3135
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Wed May 14 12:51:10 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705120556.WAA14477@big.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970514124858.563L-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Rod-

I disagree with your proposal to remove lists.  One of those lists is the
marketplace list, which has probably only had one or two posts during the
last six months.  It is 'hibernating' for the same reasons for that the
web page was hibernating last summer.

Why, exactly do you see the need to pare down the number of lists?

-Doug

On Sun, 11 May 1997, Rod Clark wrote:

> > I know that some of the lists are under-utilized, but each committee
> > should have at least one mailing list for the communication of it's
> > members.  Plus the smaller and larger mailing lists for whatever they
> > are for... 
> 
> Nancy, 
> 
> It's not necessarily only the mailing lists that are too
> numerous and underutilized - you could say that about quite a
> few of the committees. 
> 
> I'm not going to subscribe to all the excessive number of SCN
> lists that I'd need to subscribe to, if I actually wanted to
> know more about what's going on. There are far too many SCN
> mailing lists now - again, there literally are seventeen (17)
> mailing lists. The sheer number of them is becoming more of a
> communications problem than it's worth, at least for me. Having
> this number of mailing lists is absolutely ridiculous. Why do
> you think that every group whose members may or may not send a
> message every six months needs its own list? It does not.
> 
> Rod Clark
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From rclark at pop.aa.net  Wed May 14 05:56:05 1997
From: rclark at pop.aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:56:05 +0000
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970514123705.563F-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970510120135.21925B-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <199705141954.MAA13386@moon.aa.net>

Taking on **one** such litigatory issue such as this would be an
approriate endeavor for SCN, though not one to be taken lightly.

There is need for court rulings on many net issues, and we can afford to
take on one of these that is likely winnable with very little to lose and
much to gain...

Doug, 

I assume the "ligatory issue" that you'd like to see SCN
"afford to take on" is repealing the copyright laws. If the NY
Times isn't interested in referring Steve's activities to their
attorneys, it's likely because because he's distributing their
articles "out of sight and out of mind" on a mailing list,
instead of on a world-readable Web site. 

If you ever do put them on the SCN Web site, by the way, please
add a note that says "Hi, I'm not the webmaster here (who
advised me not to do this). My name is..., and my lawyer's name
is... I'd be happy to travel to New York anytime at my own
expense to appear in court. Yours truly, ..."  

Rod Clark
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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Wed May 14 12:59:00 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:59:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Articles (mail-lists)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970512123209.008b0eb0@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970514125802.563O-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


This discussion should be taking place in the context of various planning
committee proposals now being developed.  (We are preliminarily proposing
moving webmaster functions to hardware)


On Mon, 12 May 1997, Tom Sparks wrote:

> As the owner of webmasters at scn.org. I am willing to post 
> to subscribers to that list, telling them that from this point
> forward all SCN web conversations will take place on the 
> services mail list.
> 
> Webmasters is no longer a committee, not even a sub-committee
> so I think this is appropriate.
> 
> ..Tom Sparks
>   former chair of the Webmasters Committee
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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Wed May 14 13:11:24 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:11:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705141954.MAA13386@moon.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970514130841.563R-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


> 
> Doug, 
> 
> I assume the "ligatory issue" that you'd like to see SCN
> "afford to take on" is repealing the copyright laws. If the NY
> Times isn't interested in referring Steve's activities to their
> attorneys, it's likely because because he's distributing their
> articles "out of sight and out of mind" on a mailing list,
> instead of on a world-readable Web site. 
> 
That is not correct.  Reuse of material is an important question.  This is
probably actually not something to get into in my opinion.  However if
this particular issue raises some like the current Microsoft/Tickemaster
link suit it might well.

There are many costs to maintaining freedom on the web and SCN should not
be afraid to take on their share of them, nor to generate publicity from
same.

 > If you ever do put them on the SCN Web site, by
the
way, please > add a note that says "Hi, I'm not the webmaster here (who
> advised me not to do this). My name is..., and my lawyer's name
> is... I'd be happy to travel to New York anytime at my own
> expense to appear in court. Yours truly, ..."  
> 
> Rod Clark

-Douglas Tooley


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From rclark at pop.aa.net  Wed May 14 07:11:37 1997
From: rclark at pop.aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:11:37 +0000
Subject: Articles
Message-ID: <199705142110.OAA15778@moon.aa.net>

> There are many costs to maintaining freedom on the web and
> SCN should not be afraid to take on their share of them, nor
> to generate publicity from same.

Doug, 

Whose freedom? People who hope they can make a living creating
things, or parasites who refuse to respect anything at all
about the idea of copyright? "Fair use" has been a gray area
since before people started using ditto fluid and mimeograph
stencils. But reprinting the Times articles in their entirety
(while conveniently omitting the copyright notices) isn't a gray
area. It's a violation of copyright, and it falls under the
"what you can get away with" rule instead of the "fair use"
rule. 

I'm disappointed that people at SCN seem to consider this a
freedom issue. It's nothing but stealing people's intellectual
property whole (the work by which they make their livelihoods),
which is what copyright laws were first enacted to keep
scoundrels from doing a few centuries ago. 

Promoting the complete and unmitigated theft of intellectual
property isn't what SCN should be about, although promoting
limited and reasonable fair use of intellectual property is
something that SCN could do. 

Keep in mind that each Information Provider on SCN has a
copyright in the material it publishes, unless it specifically
waives that right. (Eat the State! and a few others do waive
their copyright, by the way. Feel free to redistribute their
material.)

Rod Clark
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From kv9x at scn.org  Wed May 14 22:11:22 1997
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:11:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mentor Reminder (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89 SCN 1.0.9705142223.B1557-0100000@scn>

This is an announcement of the upcoming SCN Mentor/IP events.

The workshops are for Information Providers (and those who
would like to volunteer to work with them) to create web sites
and other internet publications & forums.

The orientation is a strongly suggested (but not manditory)
prerequisite to the Mentor workshop.  [Also -- it is best
to attend a volunteer orientation before either of these,
but if you cannot do that before the Mentor stuff, please try
to attend a volunteer orientation soon after.]

However, Information Providers need not attend the Mentor Orientation,
unless they wish to become a mentor ... which would be really great!
The workshops are 3 hours long and cover publishing on the 'web',
newsgroups, email lists, file manipulation, and more.
 
Read on for more info ...


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:07:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian High <kv9x at scn>
To: services at scn
Subject: Mentor Reminder

This is a reminder about the Orientation and Workshop this month
... as well as an announcement of the June Workshop.

Please write to nancky to register.  There is plenty of room
so don't be shy!

Mentor Orientation: 17 May - Sat. - 10-12 am
Mentor Workshop:    24 May - Sat. - 12-3 pm
Mentor Workshop:    28 June - Sat. - 12-3 pm

We will have a lot of fun ... can't wait!
--Brian High



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From steve at accessone.com  Thu May 15 10:52:51 1997
From: steve at accessone.com (Steve Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:52:51 -800
Subject: Newsletter
Message-ID: <199705151654.JAA11054@blaze.accessone.com>

We discussed the infamous newsletter at last night's Board
meeting.  Looks like Doug Schuler will spearhead a print version,
while I get to run with an electronic rendition.

First, any comments on which Lists should receive posts of the
ongoing debates as we put this thing together?  I'd like to cut
down on multiple message copies as much as possible, without
leaving out any group that wants to have input.

Here are a few of my very own personal-type random thoughts:

1.  Almost any newsletter is better than none.  There; like
    magic, this is now a low-pressure job.

2.  Given #1 above, I'd like to start out with a simple ASCII
    text version.  Then we can look into adding HTML bells and
    whistles.

3.  A number of people have strong feelings about the format and
    content of the newsletter.  It follows that some folks will
    not like it.  There will be changes made in response to
    constructive comments.  Then, other folks will not like it. 
    We'll try to keep this an equal-opportunity annoyance.

4.  I'm operating on the assumption that SCN's volunteers are
    already devoting extraordinary amounts of time and energy to
    the organization.  I have no intention of bugging people
    about deadlines; the newsletter will not become the tail
    wagging the dog.  If there's no material from a particular
    committee or group, I'll assume that there's nothing new, or
    that you're just too busy with more important projects, or
    that you chose (for whatever reason) not to submit anything. 
    Any of these rationales are ok by me.  If someone else would
    like to be the official SCN Nag, please step forward.

5.  Having established myself (see #4) as a sort of nice guy,
    it's time to drop the other shoe: I'd like to have absolute
    editing authority.  Doubtless this will upset someone who
    submits 12 pages of pithy material that's reduced to a
    paragraph, but I hope we can meet those little challenges as
    we go along.

Now, down to more nitty-gritty stuff.  Here are some of the
possible subject areas that came up at the last Outreach meeting:

Committee reports
IP reports
Board report
Help column
User feedback
Letters to the editor
Requests for volunteers
Spotlight one or more volunteers
Coming events
Request for donations

Any thoughts on timetables, sbject areas, the logistics of obtaining
submissions, or anything else?  (As if I had to ask!)

...Steve
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From jmabel at speakeasy.org  Thu May 15 13:49:31 1997
From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (Joe Mabel)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 13:49:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newsletter
In-Reply-To: <199705151654.JAA11054@blaze.accessone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970515134342.19906A-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

On Thu, 15 May 1997, Steve Hoffman wrote (inter alia):
> 5.  Having established myself (see #4) as a sort of nice guy,
>     it's time to drop the other shoe: I'd like to have absolute
>     editing authority.  Doubtless this will upset someone who
>     submits 12 pages of pithy material that's reduced to a
>     paragraph, but I hope we can meet those little challenges as
>     we go along.
I would suggest that if you digest 12 pages down to a paragraph, then in
the online version you should still make the 12 pages available.  Can't
imagine a reason not to, even if as an editor you comment that you doubt
many people will be interested in the 12 page document and it's just
there for reference.

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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Thu May 15 18:06:04 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <199705142110.OAA15778@moon.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970515175807.18276B-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Rod-

I'm glad you feel the way you do.  My point though was about litigation,
not the particulars of this case. 

Not only have you accused me of advocating for violation of intellectual
property rights when I have done nothing of the case you do it freely in
your own work.  The website design is largely drawn from the marketplace
prototype site, from criteria I had a lot to do with creating, on the
Webmasters ad hoc list.  Their are very minor differences between the
marketplace prototype and the final design, though those differences do
make the site a bit more graphical they are also less dynamically
compatible with text only browsing.

You, and Mr. Sparks, are quite quick to claim credit for the site.  Upon
a deeper look it is clear that the 'attacks' from you and Mr. Sparks
against my work were nothing more than an effort to steal intellectual
property rights.

So, please, Mr. Clark, just what is the appropriate punishment for your
rightesnouss rag?

-Doug 

 On Wed, 14 May 1997, Rod Clark wrote:

> > There are many costs to maintaining freedom on the web and
> > SCN should not be afraid to take on their share of them, nor
> > to generate publicity from same.
> 
> Doug, 
> 
> Whose freedom? People who hope they can make a living creating
> things, or parasites who refuse to respect anything at all
> about the idea of copyright? "Fair use" has been a gray area
> since before people started using ditto fluid and mimeograph
> stencils. But reprinting the Times articles in their entirety
> (while conveniently omitting the copyright notices) isn't a gray
> area. It's a violation of copyright, and it falls under the
> "what you can get away with" rule instead of the "fair use"
> rule. 
> 
> I'm disappointed that people at SCN seem to consider this a
> freedom issue. It's nothing but stealing people's intellectual
> property whole (the work by which they make their livelihoods),
> which is what copyright laws were first enacted to keep
> scoundrels from doing a few centuries ago. 
> 
> Promoting the complete and unmitigated theft of intellectual
> property isn't what SCN should be about, although promoting
> limited and reasonable fair use of intellectual property is
> something that SCN could do. 
> 
> Keep in mind that each Information Provider on SCN has a
> copyright in the material it publishes, unless it specifically
> waives that right. (Eat the State! and a few others do waive
> their copyright, by the way. Feel free to redistribute their
> material.)
> 
> Rod Clark
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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Thu May 15 18:15:05 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:15:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newsletter; a note on links
In-Reply-To: <199705151654.JAA11054@blaze.accessone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970515181237.18276C-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Hot links can be included in a ascii version so long as the actual 'style'
used is easily understood by both browser and non-browser readers.


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From sharma at aa.net  Thu May 15 18:42:30 1997
From: sharma at aa.net (Sharma)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newsletter
In-Reply-To: <199705151654.JAA11054@blaze.accessone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.94.970515183551.29487A-100000@big.aa.net>



I think a newsletter is a good idea, and would like to see committees look
at exact descriptions of tasks that need doing in requesting volunteers.
SCN has always had difficulty in using the volunteers that come forward
efficiently as most volunteers need to stick around for quite a while to
figure out something they can do, rather than being able to just walk into
a task clearly set out. 

I would like an occasional notice sent to all committees about the
newsletter being available, but have the newsletter itself go only to
scn at scn.org to avoid duplication on all the lists.

A newsletter should come out at least monthly, or more often when a lot of
stuff for it builds up, in my opinion. It could also be posted on a
webpage fairly easily as turning text into html with no graphics is very
quick to do. (I would be willing to do it)

Cheers,

-sharma 

On Thu, 15 May 1997, Steve Hoffman wrote:

> We discussed the infamous newsletter at last night's Board
> meeting.  Looks like Doug Schuler will spearhead a print version,
> while I get to run with an electronic rendition.
> 
> First, any comments on which Lists should receive posts of the
> ongoing debates as we put this thing together?  I'd like to cut
> down on multiple message copies as much as possible, without
> leaving out any group that wants to have input.
> 
> Now, down to more nitty-gritty stuff.  Here are some of the
> possible subject areas that came up at the last Outreach meeting:
> 
> Committee reports
> IP reports
> Board report
> Help column
> User feedback
> Letters to the editor
> Requests for volunteers
> Spotlight one or more volunteers
> Coming events
> Request for donations
> 
> Any thoughts on timetables, sbject areas, the logistics of obtaining
> submissions, or anything else?  (As if I had to ask!)
> 
> ...Steve
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From nancyk at scn.org  Thu May 15 19:10:17 1997
From: nancyk at scn.org (Nancyk)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newsletter
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.94.970515183551.29487A-100000@big.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.94.970515190358.9842C-100000@scn>

I agree with Sharma.  Have it only on the scn at scn.org mailing list and on
the website.  Everything else she states match my thoughts on this. 

I also agree with giving Steve absolute power over editing the newsletter;
his ideas for content look great.

agreeably  :)
Nancy

On Thu, 15 May 1997, Sharma wrote:

> I think a newsletter is a good idea, and would like to see committees look
> at exact descriptions of tasks that need doing in requesting volunteers.
> SCN has always had difficulty in using the volunteers that come forward
> efficiently as most volunteers need to stick around for quite a while to
> figure out something they can do, rather than being able to just walk into
> a task clearly set out. 
> 
> I would like an occasional notice sent to all committees about the
> newsletter being available, but have the newsletter itself go only to
> scn at scn.org to avoid duplication on all the lists.
> 
> A newsletter should come out at least monthly, or more often when a lot of
> stuff for it builds up, in my opinion. It could also be posted on a
> webpage fairly easily as turning text into html with no graphics is very
> quick to do. (I would be willing to do it)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -sharma 

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From rclark at pop.aa.net  Thu May 15 12:32:22 1997
From: rclark at pop.aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:32:22 +0000
Subject: Articles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970515175807.18276B-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>
References: <199705142110.OAA15778@moon.aa.net>
Message-ID: <199705160231.TAA03020@moon.aa.net>

Doug, 

It was my impression that everyone who worked on the spring
1996 Web site revision gave their time and contributions freely
and in good faith, to benefit SCN in general.

As I've said many times, everyone's input and contributions have
been and still are valuable, and they've all been freely
contributed toward the goal of patching them together into a
better whole, including yours. If some elements of your designs
helped SCN, then I'd like to thank you for that.

In general, I do think that being opinionated should be more
fun than otherwise, and that this is an okay place for a few
friendly arguments from time to time. 

Rod Clark
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From bb156 at scn.org  Sat May 17 10:31:22 1997
From: bb156 at scn.org (Andrew Higgins)
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: On-line town prefers e-mail
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970517102900.3741A-100000@scn>



Linkname: The Seattle Times, Today's Top Stories: When it comes to
          Internet, on-line town prefers e-mail
     URL: http://www.seattletimes.com/extra/browse/html97/altmail_051797. 
          html


   ,_____,_____,    6 __      _
   T\  :.      .^\,_/_\_|_   /_|   _/_ _     )__/'_ _ '   _   bb156 at scn.org
   I ^T=====;=====T   /|    (  |/)(// (-((/ /  //(/(///)_)    Seattle, WA
      I           I _|_|                        _/_/



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From vm at scn.org  Mon May 19 15:55:44 1997
From: vm at scn.org (SCN Voicemail)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Assistive Technology
Message-ID: <199705192255.PAA11127@scn.org>

Is there someone who can help a man interested in using SCN with a speech
synthesizer? I believe there are others using this type of equipment on
the system. Is someone familiar enough with the hardware to help this
person? Please contact him directly, or through me, and hopefully get him
on board. 

His name is Harold Vanauken tel.# 361-9185

He is in the process of registration, so he does not yet have an active 
account.


Andrew
bb156

--
>From the Seattle Community Network voice mail volunteers
Call us at 365-4528 and leave a message, or email to vm at scn.org

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From douglas  Tue May 20 09:43:08 1997
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 09:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Big SCN write-up in June, 1997 Network magazine
Message-ID: <199705201643.JAA24257@scn.org>


There is a very nice 5-page write-up on SCN in the June issue of
Network magazine.  It features a nice shot of our logos, quotes
from Bob Mascott, Nancy, and me, and should help promote interest
in community networking in general, and SCN specifically.  I'll
make some copies...  

-- Doug

PS. It's not on the newstands yet (or their website) I don't think.

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From help at scn.org  Wed May 21 00:28:48 1997
From: help at scn.org (SCN help)
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:28:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970521002759.9647A-100000@scn>



 From the SCN Help Desk: Andrew 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 05:12:43 GMT
From: Peter Kasaty <kasaty at seanet.com>
To: help at scn.org
Subject: (fwd) Returned mail: User unknown

Hi Help,

Either the contact address on the volunteers forum is out of date, or I
guess I did something wrong that I don't understand (or door number 3).

Thanks in advance,

-- Peter    kasaty at seanet.com     kasaty at scn.org


On Tue, 20 May 1997 22:08:07 -0700 (PDT), Mail Delivery Subsystem
<MAILER-DAEMON at scn.org> wrote:

>The original message was received at Tue, 20 May 1997 22:08:04 -0700 (PDT)
>from dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2]
>
>   ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications -----
><scnvols at scn.org>  (unrecoverable error)
>    (expanded from: <scnvols at scn.org>)
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>... while talking to mail.scn.org:
>>>> RCPT To:<scnvols at mail.scn.org>
><<< 550 <scnvols at mail.scn.org>... User unknown
>550 <scnvols at scn.org>... User unknown

To: scnvols at scn.org
Subject: Question about Volunteer Orientation
From: kasaty at seanet.com (Peter Kasaty)
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 05:03:27 GMT

Hi Volunteer Coordinator,

I am an scn member (kasaty at scn.org) and I will be leaving for Eastern
Europe soon to help set up non-commercial, Internet access for alumni
of US sponsored scholarly fellowships (e.g., Fulbright, Muskie, etc.).
I am especially interested in setting up a FreeNet.

Would it be possible to get a tour of scn and speak to someone familiar
with system set up and configuration issues before I leave next week?

Can this be arranged?

Thanks,

-- Peter Kasaty    kasaty at seanet.com    556-0367



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From bd047 at scn.org  Wed May 21 14:26:41 1997
From: bd047 at scn.org (Deborah Witmer)
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newsletter
Message-ID: <199705212126.OAA22758@scn.org>

>
>I agree with Sharma.  Have it only on the scn at scn.org mailing list and on
>the website.  Everything else she states match my thoughts on this. 
>
>I also agree with giving Steve absolute power over editing the newsletter;
>his ideas for content look great.
>
>agreeably  :)
>Nancy

OK, so I haven't had time to read my email in a timely manner, so I may 
be way behind on this (I'm only up to #38 out of 103!).  However, as one 
of the people on the Planning Committee who really advocated for this 
newsletter, I've decided to toss in my 2 cents.

One of the biggest reasons I want to see an SCN electronic newsletter is 
to improve communications and information sharing between USERS - not 
volunteers.  This only works for me if EVERY USER automatically gets 
signed up for this list (to get the newsletter) with an option to get off 
if they so desire.

Please correct me if I am misunderstanding - but that doesn't seem to be 
what people are talking about - or are they?

~Deborah Witmer~

--
Deborah Lynn Witmer   bd047 at scn.org
Kirk: "Well, once again, we have saved civilization as we know it!"
McCoy: "And the good news is -- they're not going to prosecute!"

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From michaelh at scn.org  Wed May 21 13:33:55 1997
From: michaelh at scn.org (michaelh at scn.org)
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:33:55 -0700
Subject: 6836 users removed from password file
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970519235426.19342A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <zw1gzMnJq4Ze091yn@scn.org>

  How soon after receiving an account must one log in to prevent
the account from being deleted?
  How were scn users informed of this policy before it was implemented?

  Do recent account information letters warn people that they must
log in within a certain period after receiving their account, and
that they must log in at least once every 6 months to retain their
accounts?
  Older account activation letters made no mention of these
requirements - how were these people informed?

	Thanks,
	Michael Hanson


On Mon, 19 May 1997 23:59:51 -0700 (PDT), allen <allen at scn.org> wrote:
>"all users who have never logged in" randy?  I hope that a time period
>was included...like all users who have had accounts more than  x  period
>of time and have never logged in.  
>
>On Mon, 19 May 1997, Randy Groves wrote:
>
>> 
>> This list included all
>> users that have never logged in, or haven't logged in less than 6 months.
>> It DOES NOT include any accounts that have .forward files pointing somewhere
>> else. ...
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From marcia at scn.org  Thu May 22 09:24:45 1997
From: marcia at scn.org (Marcia Bender)
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 09:24:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fund. Cmtee meeting
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970522091531.14026C-100000@scn>

Hello!
The fundraising committee meets next on Sat. June 7
at the Greenwood Public Library (near 80th and Greenwood)
from 4 to 5:45pm.

We would enjoy any or all of you to attend.  Please
RSVP with me.

For part of our agenda, we will discuss/brainstorm ideas
for programs in our Fundraising Action Plan which will guide and
direct the Fundraising Committee activities for the
next two years.  

These programs will effect SCN/SCNA
at large because the idea of the many programs is to
foster group activity and membership, reaching out
and partnering with groups of people and organizations
that may or may not be a part of SCN/SCNA currently.

Sometimes we will be raising money to facilitate these
activities and sometimes these activities will raise
money.

Hope to see you there.  We want your input!!
--Marcia Bender

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From jmabel at speakeasy.org  Thu May 22 16:22:46 1997
From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (Joe Mabel)
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 6836 users removed from password file
In-Reply-To: <zw1gzMnJq4Ze091yn@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970522161824.24296A-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

A statement of the exact policy on this would sure be appreciated.  I can
think of a lot of problematic cases.  I _am_ a problematic case.

I have an SCN account, obtained basically as a side effect of a
donation, and I have my e-mail from that account forward to Speakeasy.  I
haven't logged into it in ages, but I get some e-mail through it.

Separately from this is the "heathens" account under which I maintain the
Crisis Resource Directory (& also get e-mail).  I've probably logged in on
that once or twice, but basically I use it to FTP in HTML pages.


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From namioka at netcom.com  Fri May 23 08:59:16 1997
From: namioka at netcom.com (Aki Namioka)
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 08:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can We Work Together? (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9705230852.A22182-0100000@netcom5.netcom.com>

Any ideas for how we can participate?  Or should we participate?  I think 
it would be a "cool" thing.

- Aki

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:06:33 -0400
From: Russ Finkelstein <Russ at contact.org>
To: cpsr-seattle at cpsr.org
Subject: Can We Work Together?

Hi ,

This is Russ Finkelstein from the Contact Center Network
(http://www.contact.org), a nonprofit organization that maintains one of
the most comprehensive directories of nonprofit resources on the Web,
with searchable links to over 10,000 nonprofit Websites in 110
countries. 

I am writing you now to invite you to take part in a new initiative we
are launching called Action Without Borders - a Global Week of Action
and Ideas. 

Planned for October 18-25, 1997, Action Without Borders is something
that has never been done before: a week of action during which people
and organizations around the world will work together on a variety of
volunteering and community projects, build new relationships, and share
ideas and successes.

Taking part in Action Without Borders is easy. All projects during this
week - whether local or international - will be organized independently
by different organizations, and coordinated and publicized through the
Web and other media. Individuals can simply pick the projects they like,
or help organize and promote AWB in their school, workplace or house of
worship.

So far, the response to this initiative has been wonderful.
International participants include:  

- APC - the Association for Progressive Communications (www.apc.org) a
global "network of networks" that jointly provide Internet access and
other information-sharing tools to over 40,000 organizations and
community leaders in 133 countries 

- CIVICUS, the World Alliance for Citizen Participation
(www.civicus.org) with members in over 50 countries.

- I*EARN (www.igc.apc.org/iearn/) which links children and youth around
the world in learning and service projects.  

In addition, individuals and local organizations in 30 countries are
already taking part, and Yahoo and ChatPlanet, two of the most visited
sites on the Web, have agreed to provide free banners on their sites to
help promote Action Without Borders.

To learn more about this project, and about how your organization can
take part, please go to http://www.contact.org and click on the Action
Without Borders link.  

We  look forward to your reply and to working with you on this project.
(Please feel free to forward this message to other people.)

Thanks and regards,

Russ Finkelstein
www.contact.org



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From kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org  Fri May 23 12:47:19 1997
From: kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org (Kurt Cockrum)
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:47:19 -0700
Subject: users and user accounts
Message-ID: <199705231947.MAA05342@grogatch.seaslug.org>

Maybe it's time for some CPSR person to lend some technical expertise to
the problem of dealing with the life-cycles of user and account instances,
to borrow some OO (object-oriented) jargon.  I think that might be a way of
making the problem more tractable.

It might be useful to consider that part of this is a namespace management problem
similar to those that the various interNICs have to deal with, namely, the life-cycle
of a domain name, issues of reuse and side-effects of previous incarnations, dormancy,
etc.

Various questions need to be asked:
o	What happens to accounts when users die?
o	What happens to accounts when users disappear (not die)?
o	what happens to accounts when users go to jail, or users get out of jail,
	or join the armed services, or get out of the armed services,
	or move to another country, or change their name, or change their account name,
	or change their address, or change their password, or forget their
	password, or change their telephone authentication Q-and-A,
	or change their sex, or decide to start
	writing their handwritten signature in a new way, or never log in,
	or <zillions of other humanly significant transitions which ripple-over to our
	 particular framework>...
	Many of these can be folded into a single situation, of course.  They do need
	the scrutiny, though.  Bear in mind that all of these changes can revert to their
	previous state, and can do this more than once, in an arbitrarily cyclic fashion.
o	What's the relation(s) between users and accounts?  Can we have users without
	accounts? accounts without users?
o	What's the relation between users and real live human beings (MeatObjects(TM))?
	Not all users are coupled to a MeatObject, for example the "ftp" or "bin"
	users.  In the case of the "root" user instance, multiple MeatObjects are coupled
	to it (all the MO's who know the root password).  For ordinary SCN users, we want
	each one to be coupled to a MeatObject.
o	What objects are the custodians of various attributes or other objects?
	For example, to what does a "password" belong to?  It would appear that this
	is an attribute of an account instance, but at least one MeatObject knows
	it (but there are cases where that might not be true, as when the last MeatObject
	sharing an account forgets the password).
o	Can we cope with Y2K problems?  What about users who attempt to log in
	on Jan 2, 2001, after having previously logged in some time in 1999?
o	Note that I have elided the distinctions between users and MeatObjects in
	several of the above cases.

Both the user and account objects/classes need to have the various states and transitions
of their respective lifecycles defined, in essence.  Analysis and design work is needed.
The concept of "framework" might be useful here; maybe somebody else has already
done the work.  The particular "framework" might be one appropriate to a freenet ISP.

In the current instance, where about 7K accounts just suddenly underwent the transition
from "active" to "dormant" states (both states urgently needing definition) one hopes
they weren't simply thrown away without further thought.  It certainly ought to be
possible to recover an account.  Presumably this includes the password, home
directory tree, mailbox, last login information, whatever else is relevant.  Just
how long this ought to be possible is an attribute of the life-cycle.

I think it would be extremely imprudent to recycle usernames (at least the
automatically generated ones), without giving due thought to possible consequences
and whether we can or want to cope with them.  Vanity ID's could be recycled, but
the caveats ought to be explained.  For example, what if a previous MeatObject
belonging to a vanity ID (a kind of user) was a spammer?  The current MeatObject
with the recycled vanity ID won't appreciate receiving hate mail directed to the
previous MeatObject.

Hopefully more knowledgable folks, actually doing OO stuff, will comment.  I'm just
an amateur here.
--kurt
 I've always thought rock-and-roll made sex and drugs a whole lot less fun than
 they could've been.  Or maybe it's that sex and drugs made rock-and-roll tolerable.
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From jmabel at speakeasy.org  Fri May 23 13:20:22 1997
From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (Joe Mabel)
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can We Work Together? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9705230852.A22182-0100000@netcom5.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970523131804.29364A-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

How about on-street outreach?  Print up a flyer that describes what is
available from SCN (& possibly other non-profit network resources in the
Seattle area) & how to get an account.

On Fri, 23 May 1997, Aki Namioka wrote:

> Any ideas for how we can participate?  Or should we participate?  I think 
> it would be a "cool" thing.
> 
> - Aki
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 16:06:33 -0400
> From: Russ Finkelstein <Russ at contact.org>
> To: cpsr-seattle at cpsr.org
> Subject: Can We Work Together?
> 
> Hi ,
> 
> This is Russ Finkelstein from the Contact Center Network
> (http://www.contact.org), a nonprofit organization that maintains one of
> the most comprehensive directories of nonprofit resources on the Web,
> with searchable links to over 10,000 nonprofit Websites in 110
> countries. 
> 
> I am writing you now to invite you to take part in a new initiative we
> are launching called Action Without Borders - a Global Week of Action
> and Ideas. 
> 
> Planned for October 18-25, 1997, Action Without Borders is something
> that has never been done before: a week of action during which people
> and organizations around the world will work together on a variety of
> volunteering and community projects, build new relationships, and share
> ideas and successes.
> 
> Taking part in Action Without Borders is easy. All projects during this
> week - whether local or international - will be organized independently
> by different organizations, and coordinated and publicized through the
> Web and other media. Individuals can simply pick the projects they like,
> or help organize and promote AWB in their school, workplace or house of
> worship.
> 
> So far, the response to this initiative has been wonderful.
> International participants include:  
> 
> - APC - the Association for Progressive Communications (www.apc.org) a
> global "network of networks" that jointly provide Internet access and
> other information-sharing tools to over 40,000 organizations and
> community leaders in 133 countries 
> 
> - CIVICUS, the World Alliance for Citizen Participation
> (www.civicus.org) with members in over 50 countries.
> 
> - I*EARN (www.igc.apc.org/iearn/) which links children and youth around
> the world in learning and service projects.  
> 
> In addition, individuals and local organizations in 30 countries are
> already taking part, and Yahoo and ChatPlanet, two of the most visited
> sites on the Web, have agreed to provide free banners on their sites to
> help promote Action Without Borders.
> 
> To learn more about this project, and about how your organization can
> take part, please go to http://www.contact.org and click on the Action
> Without Borders link.  
> 
> We  look forward to your reply and to working with you on this project.
> (Please feel free to forward this message to other people.)
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> 
> Russ Finkelstein
> www.contact.org
> 
> 
> 
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From jmabel at speakeasy.org  Fri May 23 13:27:28 1997
From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (Joe Mabel)
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:27:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can We Work Together? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970523131804.29364A-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970523132620.29364C-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

On Fri, 23 May 1997, Joe Mabel wrote:

> How about on-street outreach?  Print up a flyer that describes what is
> available from SCN (& possibly other non-profit network resources in the
> Seattle area) & how to get an account.
> 
He adds:
Of course, with postering laws being what they are now in Seattle, this
doesn't mean sticking it on phone poles, it means actually getting our
asses out into the street & handing out flyers.

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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Fri May 23 18:47:53 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Articles (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970523184554.18911K-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Hi all-

The following message is a reply to a question about 'rights' over a
donation to our 'public domain' website.

***************

Your question is a good one.  If something is given to the public domain
then it is in the public domain and it is no longer your property, right?
However in the real world there are quite a number of people who make
their living off, more or less, controlling public assets.  

It is often the case that these individuals make their claims through
being able to chase off anyone who might make a statement regarding the
appropriate use of any given public asset.  This is endemic in Seattle,
and in my opinion, a big problem with lots of ramifications.

This particular incidence may well one of those ramifications, where
that behavior is copied to the 'benefit' of the ego of the perpetrator.  
(Actually the copying probably goes both ways with our civic elite copying
the primadonnas and vice versa).

Though it may well be legal to attack the reputation and effort of the
donor while making full use of the result of the donor endeavors it is
also reprehensible.  Donations to the public domain are generally made,
not to generate attacks against oneself, but rather to do a good turn and
to build one's 'positive' reputation.

Frankly I think this does deserve some codification as the current legal
situation really only supports those who build their reputations through
'negative' means.

-Douglas Tooley



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From chanh at scn.org  Mon May 26 08:41:20 1997
From: chanh at scn.org (Chanh Ong)
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Please help us distribute this information! (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970526084014.15252A-100000@scn4.scn.org>

To whom that might be interested:

------------------------------------------------------------------
        ^				       Chanh Ong (SCN)
       ^^^ Home of Mount Rainier	     Seattle, Washington 
----------------- http://www.scn.org/edu/index.html --------------

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:25:56 -0700
From: Van Overs <Van73 at televar.com>
To: chanh at scn.org
Subject: Please help us distribute this information!

Please share this information with any volunteers who might be 
interested!

An opportunity to . . . . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . Learn and practice teaching skills while contributing to the 
basic education of students, preschool  through grade 12
. . . . . Learn and practice English as a Second Language techniques and 
bilingual (English/Spanish) skills while assisting students with limited 
English
. . . . . Help small rural communities develop resources to support 
their students 
. . . . . . . . . . . through serving a year in AmeriCorps in beautiful, 
rural North Central Washington State.

The 1997-98 Intermountain AmeriCorps Service and Education Network is 
looking for talented people who are interested in working with children 
and youth in a public school setting for eleven months from 
September,1997 through August,1998.

Intermountain team members will assist students throughout five rural 
school districts, preschool through grade 12, on their basic academic 
skills.  Because of our high percentage of Spanish speaking students, 
applicants with interest and background in the field of education or 
English as a Second Language will have particular opportunities to 
practice their skills.  Minimum requirements �Applicants must be at 
least 17 years of age, US citizen or lawful permanent resident, and have 
a high school diploma or GED or agree to obtain one during their term of 
service.  

In exchange for 11 months of results-driven service, Intermountain 
AmeriCorps members will receive an education award of $4,725.00 to help 
finance their college education or vocational training or to pay back 
their student loans.  This award takes the form of a tuition voucher 
that can be used at any nationally accredited school.  Members also 
receive a $650 per month living allowance, health care, and child care 
assistance when needed.  In order to qualify for the education award, 
members must complete the 11 month program and a minimum of 1700 hours 
of service.

AmeriCorps is the direct result of a renewed service movement in 
America.  The program strives to rebuild our communities while 
broadening education opportunities for our citizens.  AmeriCorps 
addresses our nation�s education, human, public safety, and 
environmental needs at the community level.  AmeriCorps offers 
opportunities for Americans to make a substantial commitment to serve 
their country, mobilizing them at the local level to build a national 
movement for positive change.   

Interested applicants may respond to Lake Chelan School District 
AmeriCorps team, PO Box 369, Chelan WA 98816
(509)  682-4550 
van73@ televar.com

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From kv9x at scn.org  Mon May 26 09:55:35 1997
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Education: Information for volunteers (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89 SCN 1.0.9705260939.D6266-0100000@scn>



Reply to: Van73 at televar.com  !


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 08:18:35 -0700
From: Van Overs <Van73 at televar.com>
To: kv9x at scn.org
Subject: Information for volunteers

Please share this information with any folks who might be interested!  
Please contact me if you know of any other places where we might find 
interested applicants!

An opportunity to . . . . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . Learn and practice teaching skills while contributing to the 
basic education of students, preschool  through grade 12
. . . . . Learn and practice English as a Second Language techniques and 
bilingual (English/Spanish) skills while assisting students with limited 
English
. . . . . Help small rural communities develop resources to support 
their students 
. . . . . . . . . . . through serving a year in AmeriCorps in beautiful, 
rural North Central Washington State.

The 1997-98 Intermountain AmeriCorps Service and Education Network is 
looking for talented people who are interested in working with children 
and youth in a public school setting for eleven months from 
September,1997 through August,1998.

Intermountain team members will assist students throughout five rural 
school districts, preschool through grade 12, on their basic academic 
skills.  Because of our high percentage of Spanish speaking students, 
applicants with interest and background in the field of education or 
English as a Second Language will have particular opportunities to 
practice their skills.  Minimum requirements �Applicants must be at 
least 17 years of age, US citizen or lawful permanent resident, and have 
a high school diploma or GED or agree to obtain one during their term of 
service.  

In exchange for 11 months of results-driven service, Intermountain 
AmeriCorps members will receive an education award of $4,725.00 to help 
finance their college education or vocational training or to pay back 
their student loans.  This award takes the form of a tuition voucher 
that can be used at any nationally accredited school.  Members also 
receive a $650 per month living allowance, health care, and child care 
assistance when needed.  In order to qualify for the education award, 
members must complete the 11 month program and a minimum of 1700 hours 
of service.

AmeriCorps is the direct result of a renewed service movement in 
America.  The program strives to rebuild our communities while 
broadening education opportunities for our citizens.  AmeriCorps 
addresses our nation�s education, human, public safety, and 
environmental needs at the community level.  AmeriCorps offers 
opportunities for Americans to make a substantial commitment to serve 
their country, mobilizing them at the local level to build a national 
movement for positive change.   

Interested applicants may respond to Lake Chelan School District 
AmeriCorps team, PO Box 369, Chelan WA 98816
(509)  682-4550 
van73@ televar.com

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From namioka at netcom.com  Tue May 27 10:15:49 1997
From: namioka at netcom.com (Aki Namioka)
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 10:15:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can We Work Together? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970523132620.29364C-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9705271049.A29807-0100000@netcom10>



On Fri, 23 May 1997, Joe Mabel wrote:

> On Fri, 23 May 1997, Joe Mabel wrote:
> 
> > How about on-street outreach?  Print up a flyer that describes what is
> > available from SCN (& possibly other non-profit network resources in the
> > Seattle area) & how to get an account.
> > 
> He adds:
> Of course, with postering laws being what they are now in Seattle, this
> doesn't mean sticking it on phone poles, it means actually getting our
> asses out into the street & handing out flyers.

This is a good idea - low organizing impact and easy for us.  Hey - if 
there are some events around that time that we can piggy-back on in 
Seattle, it even makes it easier for us.  Unfortunately, we miss the 
Street Fair season.

- Aki
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From douglas  Wed May 28 09:04:41 1997
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:04:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: looking for a "Meet the New Medium" instructor  
Message-ID: <199705281604.JAA23836@scn.org>


As some of you know I've been teaching a two-quarter course (for the
part-time studies program) entitled "Meet the New Medium" at the
Evergreen State College in Olympia since January this year.  It's an
8-credit course and we've been meeting on Saturdays from 9:00 to 4:30.
In the class we focus on the social implications and the technology of
the Internet.

I submitted a proposal to teach the (two-quarter) course again this
fall (on Tuesday and Thursday evenings) which was accepted.  Since that
time, however, I accepted a full-time visiting faculty position at
Evergreen for a course called "Student Originated Software" ("SOS").

Since I'm now unable to teach the "Meet the New Medium" course, we are
looking for someone who could teach the course.  I'd be happy to go
over what I did with anybody who is qualified to teach the course.  I
also want to mention both that lots of information for the class is
available at www.scn.org/edu/tesc-97 and that anybody who does teach
the course is not obligated to use the material that I put together.
(It would be useful IMO to give it a good look, however.)

If you're qualified and might be interested please give the web site a
look.  If this looks like something you might want to do, you can
contact me for more information.  If you have a strong interest you can
also contact Susan Fiksdal, fiksdals at elwha.evergreen.edu.

Thanks for your consideration!

-- Doug

PS.  I'm hoping that the students in the SOS course will be able to
develop some software for SCN!

PPS.  To my mind, "qualified" means familiarity with the social implication
issues and the technology. The readings page should give you a good idea
of what the issues were in at least my version of the class.

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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Wed May 28 11:40:00 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:40:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Holly Park Social Services
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970528113757.13260E-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Hi folks:

This goes into the general interest file, though I gather that we do have
some members working with HUD on this project.

Please feel free to do whatever you wish with this.

-Doug



From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Sat May 24 05:26:10 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 05:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Holly Park Redevelopment
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1569885958.18021.scn@scn.org>


Cheryl Chow, Chair
Housing and Human Services Committee
Seattle City Council
1100 Municipal Building
600 Fourth Avenue
Seattle, WA 98104

RE:  Holly Park Redevelopment

Dear Ms. Chow:

At last night's very crowded hearing John McLaren, an architect with the
Displacement Coalition, testified to the policy question before you, that
of whether to adjust for federal cuts in programs supporting the very
poor.  I aggree with this assessment o f the issue, but do disagree with
his statements that it would 'despicable' to do anything but follow his,
and the Displacement Coalition's, plan. 

The primary question is really one of timing, as well as attitude.  Is it
really possible for the project, at this phase, to respond to extraneous
events?  Does the Displacement Coalition have the ability to credibly
manage any sort of technical response in conjunction with their organizing
efforts? 

This is an important decision, low income housing has played a crucial
role in recent politics.  In the late 80's, as Mayor Rice was just
beginning his tenure as Mayor we passed our first low-income housing levy. 
The Displacement Coalition, and other act ivist groups, under the direct
control of low income housing providers began a process of utilizing this
same attitude to 'extort' through political shame, money for these
organizations. 

It should be noted that I have direct experience of these efforts. I
assisted the Displacement Coalition in a project in 1991.  I was asked to
join a steering committee and began acting as a junior member with
experience in certain aspects of the project at hand.  My prudent
questions to the low-income housing provider we hired were responded to by
the Displacement Coalition as evidence of meddling and destructive
behavior.  My attempts to resolve the situation were treated as
'harrassment' and their comp laints escalated to an absurd degree, the
only correlation between the criminal allegations and my actions would be
the degree of guilt they felt over their deep lack of integrity. 

 It does appear that this group has matured somewhat since that time, but
there is no evidence that they have dealt with this fundamental flaw. 
Although the Displacement Coalition claims to be operating under the flag
of fiscal and social responsility I fear that this may well be another to
raise only the appearance of responsibility as a cover for actions which
sociologically and economically actually support the problem they claim to
fight, to their, and their allies, substantial profit. 

There is also the very real possibility that supporting this organization, 
at this time, would have similiar8 far reaching effects as did their
previous 'successes'.  Their patterns of behavior were copied by the
City's Bond Counsel, Foster, Pepper, and S hefelman as they rose in
influence from low-income bond attorneys to full status as municipal bond
counsel.  I will not go into detail here but I believ much of the problems
we have seen in the City's capital decision making in the 90's are a
direct resul t of Foster, Pepper, as well as the Mayor and the Council,
adapting the same 'Politically Correct' behavior of the Displacement
Coalition. 

That aside, I do support one aspect of the Displacement Coalition, and
feel as well that there is justification to redirect the project, at this
time, to fulfill that concern.  I speak of the proposal to establish a
low-income housing land trust on some p ortion of the property.  Housing
land trusts have established a national success rate and are mentioned in
the comprehensive plan as a strategy to be considered.  I have seen no
evidence that the SHA considered this as an alternative and it is one that
is particularly appropriate to the stated goals of creating a mixed income
project with a range of ownership, rental, and subsidized housing types. 
A housing trust could be established with no impact upon current
construction schedules and the there is exp erience within the
Displacement Coalition to implement same. (Though I can't say whether they
can actually utilize that experience.) 

To be fair the particular attitude of the Displacement Coalition, of
running around blaming anyone for anything is one that was endemic, and
necessary, to the 'Boomer' generation, in order that they might have cured
themselves from drug abuse and other ge neral problems of
irresponsibility.  Fortunately it does appear that your generation has
effectively grown past this stage into an emerging sense of matured
responsibility, though I do think that legal profession as well as the
City Bureaucracy itself, in cluding your own advisors, has yet to become
aware of that fact. 

Mr. McLaren's observation about the City needing to respond to Federal
changes is correct, but there is really only so much that can be done
through this project at this time.  Please do not destroy this project in
order to make a political statement that only 'martyrs' the current
residents of Holly Park.  The ommission of housing land trusts from this
project, is in fact, 'despicable', everything else is really just
technical details that need nothing more than an explanation, an
explanation grounded in some new sense of how to respond to Federal
welfare changes as they apply to the Housing issue. 

If you truly wish to be exceptional in your leadership abilities you might
also try addressing some of the harm created by Displacement Coalition and
their wannabee compatriots, the firm of Foster, Pepper, and Shefelman
through their so-called professiona l actions.  Architectural licensing
does require attention to the public interest and Mr. Mclaren has violated
the public interest in proposing solutions that economically advance the
causes of homelessness and poverty and through his attitude
sociallogically supports them as well. 

It would not be enough to merely apply these standards of responsibility
to the professionals associated with the Displacement Coalition, those
same standards must also be applied throughout downtown.  The Displacement
Coalition however would be a good pl ace to start.  Perhaps the SHA would
be willing to 'educate' the Displacement Coalition as they work together
on improving the Holly Park project! 

I look forward to hearing the articulation of the Council's deliberations
on these crucial issues. 


Thanks,



Douglas Tooley

CC: Councilmembers, Mayor Rice, David Bloom, SHA










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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Thu May 29 08:47:23 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 08:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Remote terminals in public facilities; PAN
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970529084505.2285B-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:31:00 -0700
From: "SEA-LEG.COUNCIL & CENTRAL STAFF:TPODLOD"


The City currently places PAN terminals in the Neighborhood Service
Centers, Community Centers and, of course, the Libraries.  Your suggestion
of a terminal at council chambers is an interesting one, and I'll pass
along to Rona Zevin for consideration with other sites. 

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From dltooley at speakeasy.org  Fri May 30 17:01:14 1997
From: dltooley at speakeasy.org (Doug Tooley)
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 17:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SCN committee involvement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9705291538.A9528-0100000@netcom2>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.970530164705.1932C-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>


Aki-

Please provide a complete record of all relevant facts and findings
pertinent to the decision of the SCN-A Board. 

Until these records are received I will proceed on the basis of the
apparent fact that this action continues the retaliatory endeavors of the
board in response to a complaint previously filed with your organization
but not responded to in any fashion.

I also note the fact that this action was not placed on the board agenda,
nor is the response relevant to the alleged offense, a conflict between
myself and an individual board member, not between myself and a committee.
I further note that the particular individual involved was attending a
meeting that he did not regularly attend.  I raise the possibility that
the motivation for his attendance at the meeting was in fact to continue
his pattern of behavior with regards to myself.

The easiest course of action for the SCN-A Board would have been to have
encouraged the two of us to stay apart, yet you have chosen a more
punitive approach.

This approach appears to be based on emotional feelings of facts, and not
on facts or responsible standards of conduct.

You may well wish to find me an official 'SCNA' asshole, but rest assured
that I will find the same, and with a basis in fact for my determination
of the SCNA board being a 'problem'.

Actions any indicators to the contrary I will assume that all actions on
your part in my regard continue the slanders, attacks and harrassment to
date, as well as your misuse of City property.

-Douglas Tooley


 On Thu, 29 May 1997, Aki
Namioka wrote:

> May 29, 1997
> 
> Dear Doug Tooley,
> 
> This letter is written on behalf of the SCNA board to request that you do
> not attend any more SCN committee meetings and cease all activities related
> to SCN committee work.  Your behavior at the last outreach committee
> meeting created a work environment that felt hostile to the other
> volunteers.  On a project that relies on broad volunteer help, we have to
> provide an atmosphere of trust, openess, and above all, a non-threatening
> environment. We will also be changing your SCN shell account to a regular
> SCN vanity account. 
> 
> This decision is temporary pending a permanent decision that the SCNA
> board will be making at the June SCNA board meeting on the 11th.  If you
> would like to discuss this decision with the board we invite you to attend
> the meeting from 7:00 - 7:30 PM at a location in Seattle to be determined 
> in the next week.
> 
> Thank you for your efforts.  This is a tough decision for us to make, but 
> we felt we had to make it for the SCN project as a whole.
> 
> - Aki Namioka
> President, Seattle Community Network Association
> 
> 

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