From kv9x at scn.org  Wed Feb  4 09:10:15 1998
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:10:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ACLU program on PBS tonite 8pm ..Ch9
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980204090314.20423A-100000@scn>


SCN at SCN,

Last night I saw an announcement that Channel 9, Seattle PBS station,
will be airing a program on the ACLU at 8pm.

This caught my eye because the ACLU is one of the 'Information Providers'
on this sytem.  It will be nice to learn something about an
'IP' of ours.  Are any other IPs to be in the media anytime soon?

--Brian

P.S. This is the ACLU web page on SCN: http://www.scn.org/civic/aclu/


American Civil Liberties Union of Washington
     _________________________________________________________________
   
     * [1]ACLU Freedom Network
     * [2]ACLU of Washington
     * Send e-mail to ACLU of Washington: [3]legislative at aclu-wa.org
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   [4]Seattle Community Network
   [5]SCN Civic Menu

References

   1. http://www.aclu.org/
   2. http://www.aclu.org/community/washing/wa.html
   3. mailto:legislative at aclu-wa.org
   4. http://www.scn.org/
   5. http://www.scn.org/civic/



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From llobregat at aclu-wa.org  Wed Feb  4 10:49:22 1998
From: llobregat at aclu-wa.org (Christine Llobregat)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:49:22 -0800
Subject: FW: ACLU program on PBS tonite 8pm ..Ch9
Message-ID: <A120422AE1FBD011946500AA00B8A6CE03CF95@ACLU_SEA01>

Thanks for mentioning the PBS program tonight.  Also, SCN people, please
link to our new web site:  www.aclu-wa.org.  Please delete all old ACLU
material on the SCN site.  Thanks,

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Christine Llobregat, Field Coordinator
ACLU of Washington
705 Second Avenue, #300
Seattle, WA  98104 
(206) 624-2184
legislative at aclu-wa.org
Visit the ACLU of Washington on the web at http://www.aclu-wa.org
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Brian High [SMTP:kv9x at scn.org]
> Sent:	Wednesday, February 04, 1998 9:10 AM
> To:	scn at scn.org
> Cc:	legislative at aclu-wa.org; aki at scn.org
> Subject:	ACLU program on PBS tonite 8pm ..Ch9
> 
> 
> SCN at SCN,
> 
> Last night I saw an announcement that Channel 9, Seattle PBS station,
> will be airing a program on the ACLU at 8pm.
> 
> This caught my eye because the ACLU is one of the 'Information
> Providers'
> on this sytem.  It will be nice to learn something about an
> 'IP' of ours.  Are any other IPs to be in the media anytime soon?
> 
> --Brian
> 
> P.S. This is the ACLU web page on SCN: http://www.scn.org/civic/aclu/
> 
> 
> American Civil Liberties Union of Washington
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>      * [1]ACLU Freedom Network
>      * [2]ACLU of Washington
>      * Send e-mail to ACLU of Washington: [3]legislative at aclu-wa.org
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>    [4]Seattle Community Network
>    [5]SCN Civic Menu
> 
> References
> 
>    1. http://www.aclu.org/
>    2. http://www.aclu.org/community/washing/wa.html
>    3. mailto:legislative at aclu-wa.org
>    4. http://www.scn.org/
>    5. http://www.scn.org/civic/
> 
> 
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From nancyk at scn.org  Wed Feb  4 22:38:34 1998
From: nancyk at scn.org (NancyK)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:38:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WAISP Legislative Update -- SPAM Bill
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.94.980204223708.23710C-100000@scn>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:26:52 -0800
From: Gary Gardner--Executive Director <exec-director at waisp.org>
Subject: WAISP Legislative Update -- SPAM Bill

SPAM Bill Passes House Energy and Utilities Committee

The House E&U Committee passed the Anti-UCE or SPAM bill HB 2752 on a 15-0
vote.  The bill now goes to the House Rules Committee to be scheduled for
a floor vote.  Our thanks to all of you who wrote and had your customers
send e-mails or hotline calls to the legislature.  But we can't let up
now.  The DMA (Direct Marketers Association), ACLU and the Realtor's
Association are teaming up to oppose the bill. 

The bill has been amended and you can review the amended copy on the
Legislative Web page at http://www.leginfo.leg.wa.gov Click on House
Bills, and navigate to the folder with HB 2752 and click on Substitute
2752.  Aside from technical changes, the amended version differs from the
original in a couple of ways: 

UCE is prohibited unless there is an existing personal or business
relationship with the sender within the last 12 months.  The sender can
also respond to a request for information, and make follow-up mailings
unless requested to stop by the recipient. 

A sender cannot send to an e-mail address that the sender knows or has
reason to know is in Washington. 

The burden is on the sender to find out if an address is in Washington,
and an ISP may respond to requests for information from a sender however
it chooses to do so. 

The remaining provisions of the bill remain -- allowing a recipient to
recover $500 or actual damages, and an ISP to recover $1,000 or actual
damages from the sender of UCE, and allowed commercial e-mail must be
noted as "Advertising" and the recipient can notify a sender to stop
sending mail.  ISPs can block UCE or what they have reason to believe is
UCE and not be liable for damages. 

The bill needs "grassroots" support -- kindly urge your customers to call
the legislative hotline at 1-800-562-6000 and have them urge their
legislators to support HB 2752. 

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From nancyk at scn.org  Thu Feb  5 22:23:03 1998
From: nancyk at scn.org (NancyK)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:23:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WAISP Legislative Update -- SPAM Bill
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.94.980205222223.608F-100000@scn>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:26:52 -0800
From: Gary Gardner--Executive Director <exec-director at waisp.org>
Subject: WAISP Legislative Update -- SPAM Bill

SPAM Bill Passes House Energy and Utilities Committee

The House E&U Committee passed the Anti-UCE or SPAM bill HB 2752 on a 15-0
vote.  The bill now goes to the House Rules Committee to be scheduled for
a floor vote.  Our thanks to all of you who wrote and had your customers
send e-mails or hotline calls to the legislature.  But we can't let up
now.  The DMA (Direct Marketers Association), ACLU and the Realtor's
Association are teaming up to oppose the bill.

The bill has been amended and you can review the amended copy on the
Legislative Web page at http://www.leginfo.leg.wa.gov Click on House
Bills, and navigate to the folder with HB 2752 and click on Substitute
2752.  Aside from technical changes, the amended version differs from the
original in a couple of ways: 

UCE is prohibited unless there is an existing personal or business
relationship with the sender within the last 12 months.  The sender can
also respond to a request for information, and make follow-up mailings
unless requested to stop by the recipient. 

A sender cannot send to an e-mail address that the sender knows or has
reason to know is in Washington. 

The burden is on the sender to find out if an address is in Washington,
and an ISP may respond to requests for information from a sender however
it chooses to do so. 

The remaining provisions of the bill remain -- allowing a recipient to
recover $500 or actual damages, and an ISP to recover $1,000 or actual
damages from the sender of UCE, and allowed commercial e-mail must be
noted as "Advertising" and the recipient can notify a sender to stop
sending mail.  ISPs can block UCE or what they have reason to believe is
UCE and not be liable for damages. 

The bill needs "grassroots" support -- kindly urge your customers to call
the legislative hotline at 1-800-562-6000 and have them urge their
legislators to support HB 2752. 

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From webmaster at scn.org  Sun Feb  8 21:27:01 1998
From: webmaster at scn.org (webmaster at scn.org)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:27:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <199802090527.VAA02042@scn.org>

Dear SCN User,

   You now have a personal Web site on SCN. It's at

        http://www.scn.org/~zz999/ (where zz999 is your SCN account ID)
 
   There are two sample files in your work/public_html
subdirectory - index.html (your home page) and template.html as a
backup file.

   Please see the "Work with files in your personal Web
directory" menu. You'll see "Work with Files / File Transfer" on
the SCN main login menu, and you can go to the personal Web menu
from there.

   When you transfer files to SCN, they'll automatically be put
in your work directory, so you'll have to copy or move them from
there to your public_html subdirectory.

   You can upload text and graphics files to SCN by dialing (206)
386-4199, or via a PPP connection from an Internet provider by
using a telnet client that does Zmodem transfers. (See SCN's
telnet help page at 
http://www.scn.org/help/telnet.html#software).

   You can run the SCN forms processor to send form data by
e-mail. If there are other CGI programs you'd like to run, that
might be of interest to other users, please let us know what they
are so we can have a look at them and possibly put them in the
system cgi-bin directory for general use.

   From your Web directory, you can serve any graphics and
multimedia files that don't require a streaming server, and Java
applet files that are transferred to and run on the user's
browser. There's some help information on the SCN Web site's help
menu at

        http://www.scn.org/help/

SCN Webmaster
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From steve at accessone.com  Sun Feb  8 23:25:28 1998
From: steve at accessone.com (Steve Hoffman)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:25:28 -0800
Subject: Black History Month on the web
Message-ID: <199802090725.XAA05984@accessone.com>

Celebrating Black History Month

Sreenath Sreenivasan 
NY Times 2/9/98


Studying the African-American experience need not be confined to a
four-week period. But February, when Black History Month is
officially observed, is a good time to seek out information on the
World Wide Web, as many sites have highlighted special sections for
visitors. 

"Over the last couple of years, the visibility of sites about the
month has greatly increased," said Joel Dreyfuss, former editor of
Our World News (www.ourworldnews.com), an online newspaper that
offers "news from a black perspective." Dreyfuss, who is now a
senior editor at Fortune magazine, said that the increased presence
went hand-in-hand with the growth of general sites owned and
operated by African-Americans. 

One starting point is San Francisco-based Netnoir (www.netnoir.com),
which bills itself as the "soul of cyberspace." Its spotlight on
Black History Month features a background essay about the origins of
the celebration, as well as profiles of important figures, including
Rosa Parks -- whose refusal to move to the back of the bus helped
start the civil rights movement -- and actor Paul Robeson. There is
also a trivia section that tests and educates at the same time.
Among the questions: Who was the first black to win the Nobel Peace
Prize? 

No, it was not the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.  Ralph Bunche, the
U.N. under secretary, won the Nobel in 1950 for his mediation of the
1948 Arab-Israeli dispute. 

Naturally, King and his legacy are highly visible on sites that deal
with African-American history. The definitive site is the Martin
Luther King Jr. Papers Project, based at Stanford University
(www-leland.stanford.edu/group/King). It has an extensive collection
of documents by and about King, as well as a link to the King Center
for Nonviolent Social Change in Atlanta. 

Afro-Americ@, the site of Baltimore-based Afro-American Newspapers,
has several exhibits in its online Black History Museum
(www.afroam.org/History/history.html), which has links, photographs
and documents. The site deals with aspects of black history that are
well known, like slavery and the Black Panthers, as well as some
that are not, such as the black reporters who covered battlefronts
in World War II. 

The Encyclopaedia Brittanica site has a guide to black history
(blackhistory.eb.com) that is free until the end of this month. The
encyclopedia's vast print resources have been combined with video
and audio to make the section useful to students and adults alike.
The entry on Malcolm X, whose death anniversary is on Feb. 21, is an
effective example of its multimedia approach. A handy timeline takes
you through the ages, beginning with the early 16th century (the
start of the slave trade) and ending with 1997 (Michael Jordan and
the Chicago Bulls win their fifth NBA championship). 

There are several sites that deal with the man who is widely
considered the father of the study of black history. To learn about
Carter G. Woodson, who established Negro History Week in 1926, visit
the Association for the Study of Afro-American Life and History
www.artnoir.com/asalh.cgw.html). In 1976, 26 years after his death,
the week was turned into Black History Month. 

Two sites that do not prominently feature Black History Month per se
but are worth a visit are the site of the NAACP (www.naacp.org) and
the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for Afro-American Research
(web-dubois.fas.harvard.edu). NAACP Online is a good introduction to
the oldest and most famous civil rights group in the United States.
And the Harvard-based Du Bois Institute, which is named for the
co-founder of the NAACP, has information about its programs,
fellowships and faculty. 

The online resources of the New York Public Library's Schomburg
Center for Research in Black Culture
(www.nypl.org/research/sc/WEBEXHIB/legacy/a.htm) provide insight
into the extent of the contribution of blacks to the shaping of
American culture. They include exhibits about the Harlem Renaissance
in the early part of this century and key figures in it, like writer
Langston Hughes. 

A site that is unusually creative in its approach to African-American
movies and music is Black Voices (www.blackvoices.com). It includes a
"Blaxploitation" section, which lists movies in this genre, like
"Shaft" and "Blacula," and a "Jukebox" section, with sound clips from
a variety of recordings, like Scott Joplin's "Maple Leaf Rag,"
Charlie Parker's "Bird" and the Supremes' "Where Did Our Love Go."
Black Voices has also teamed up with online retailer Music Boulevard
to offer a selection of albums and articles to accompany observations
of Black History Month (all conveniently for sale, of course). 

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company 
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From webmaster at scn.org  Sun Feb  8 23:48:02 1998
From: webmaster at scn.org (webmaster at scn.org)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:48:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <199802090748.XAA02731@scn.org>

Dear SCN User,

   You now have a personal Web site on SCN. It's at

        http://www.scn.org/~zz999/ (where zz999 is your SCN account ID)
 
   There are two sample files in your work/public_html
subdirectory - index.html (your home page) and template.html as a
backup file.

   Please see the "Work with files in your personal Web
directory" menu. You'll see "Work with Files / File Transfer" on
the SCN main login menu, and you can go to the personal Web menu
from there.

   When you transfer files to SCN, they'll automatically be put
in your work directory, so you'll have to copy or move them from
there to your public_html subdirectory.

   You can upload text and graphics files to SCN by dialing (206)
386-4199, or via a PPP connection from an Internet provider by
using a telnet client that does Zmodem transfers. (See SCN's
telnet help page at 
http://www.scn.org/help/telnet.html#software).

   You can run the SCN forms processor to send form data by
e-mail. If there are other CGI programs you'd like to run, that
might be of interest to other users, please let us know what they
are so we can have a look at them and possibly put them in the
system cgi-bin directory for general use.

   From your Web directory, you can serve any graphics and
multimedia files that don't require a streaming server, and Java
applet files that are transferred to and run on the user's
browser. There's some help information on the SCN Web site's help
menu at

        http://www.scn.org/help/

SCN Webmaster
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From bb615 at scn.org  Sun Feb  8 17:28:30 1998
From: bb615 at scn.org (Rod Clark)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:28:30 +0000
Subject: ignore message about home pages
In-Reply-To: <199802090527.VAA02042@scn.org>
Message-ID: <199802090930.BAA08899@scn4.scn.org>


   An accidentally sent message today may have led people to 
believe that all users now have personal Web sites. That's not 
yet true, although SCN now has the disk space to do it. (Until 
three weeks ago, the /home directories were around 93% - 98% 
capacity.) So we should be seeing this happen before long. 

Rod Clark
webadm at scn.org
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From steve at accessone.com  Mon Feb  9 15:56:53 1998
From: steve at accessone.com (Steve Hoffman)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:56:53 -0800
Subject: Web privacy
Message-ID: <199802092356.PAA22211@accessone.com>

FTC TO WEB SITES: SHOW US YOUR PRIVACY POLICY 

Business Week 2/9/98


In July, 1997, consumer-protection chiefs at the Federal Trade
Commission issued a challenge to the nation's commercial Web sites:
By the end of March, 1998, a "substantial majority" of them should
display online privacy policies -- a statement of how a site uses,
analyzes, and shares consumer information -- or risk potential
regulation. A typical privacy policy tells visitors how the
information they provide about themselves will be used -- and how
they can influence its use. 

Next month, the agency will hold fact-finding "surf days" to
determine how widely the policies have been adopted. What the agency
turns up -- or doesn't -- could affect the government's eventual role
in policing cyberspace. "I continue to believe self-regulation is the
preferred course to follow," FTC Chairman Robert Pitofsky said on
Feb. 2. "If it fails, there will be no alternative except active
government participation." 

Just how many Web sites have privacy policies is unclear. But
industry experts say the number is far fewer than the "substantial
majority" the FTC expects to find. "We're running out of time, quite
frankly," says Susan Scott, executive director of Truste, a nonprofit
industry group that advocates audited privacy policies. "In our
minds, very little has been done since last June." 

Though any real regulation is still far away -- the FTC needs
congressonal authorization to broaden its powers over the Internet
-- the agency's increasing involvement in the digital marketplace has
put a scare into Net advocates. Netizens are nearly unanimous in
their distaste for federal intrusions, though they realize that
Washington must be appeased. They're also afraid they might squander
the chance to show the feds that the private sector, through trade
groups, grassroots campaigns, and technology standards, can keep
order in the digital world without help from Uncle Sam. "This a
litmus test on self-regulation for the Clinton Administration," says
Deirdre Mulligan, staff counsel at the Center for Democracy &
Technology in Washington. 

Such fears have helped mobilize a last-minute action by trade groups
and private think tanks, which have begun promoting Web-site privacy
policies as a preemptive defense against government regulation. The
Direct Marketing Assn. has been one of the most vocal proponents,
having debuted do-it-yourself privacy-statement software on its own
Web site last summer. Through Dec. 31, more than 4,200 copies of the
software had been downloaded. 

At Truste, Scott says she's highlighting the FTC's plans to nearly
everyone she speaks to. But she concedes that the Web's fragmented
structure has made it hard to get the word out. Take Jim Shanks,
vice-president for information technologies at CDW Computer Centers,
which runs CDW.com, one of the Web's most popular computer-buying
sites. Though he has heard "a little bit about" the FTC effort, he
has no plans to post a detailed privacy policy in time for the March
review. He says he wants to be careful about a specific privacy
statement, because it can be "open to a lot of interpretation." For
now, his site carries a brief reminder that the company "will never
sell or share your E-mail address or any of your personal
information with any outside source." 

The greatest scrutiny in the FTC's coming survey will be reserved
for children's Web sites. In "surf days" it held last October, the
agency found that 86% of 126 youth-oriented sites did not seek
parental permission before collecting children's personal data, such
as name, age, or address. That's likely to scare the 97% of parents
who believe Web sites should not collect or sell any information
about children. 

This puts Internet self-regulation advocates in a bind. While they
fear that government involvement could land them on a "slippery
slope" to expensive, unenforceable bureaucratic rules, they can't
come out strongly against measures protecting child safety. How
successful they are in staving off government intervention will
likely depend on how well Web sites can discipline themselves. 
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From mtsvme at scn.org  Mon Feb  9 22:44:47 1998
From: mtsvme at scn.org (SCN User)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:44:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FW: Telephone "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <41062FF63D0DD1118BFA00805FBEB69301AEFF@xch-knt-14.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980209223740.3053B-100000@scn>

I received this little tidbit at work today from my computer support
person at Boeing. Please pass it on.

> I spoke to my Telecommunications Focal, and she has verified that this
> is something we should be aware of as a real scam.
>  
> FYI  Received from USAF sources.
>  
> Subject: LATEST TELEPHONE SCAM ** High Priority ** 
>
>On Saturday,  24 January 1998, Naval Air Station, Joint Reserve 
>Base, New Orleans' Quarterdeck received a telephone call from an 
>individual identifying himself as an AT&T Service Technician that was
>running a test on our telephone lines.  He stated that to complete the
>test the QMOW should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound sign (#) and hang
up.
> 
> Luckily, the QMOW was suspicious and refused.  Upon contacting the 
> telephone company we were informed that by pushing 90# you end up
> giving the individual that called you access to your telephone
> line and allows them to place a long distance telephone call, with the
> charge > appearing on your telephone call.  We were further 
> informed that this scam has been originating from many of the local
> jails/prisons. 

> Please 
> "pass the word".
> 
> C. J. DONARSKI
> MGySgt  Maint Chf 1st FSSG G-6
> donarski_jrc at pendleton.usmc.mil
>  
>       Greg
> Director, Security
> and Fire Protection
> (253)  657-9816
>  M/S  3U-50
 

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From anitra at speakeasy.org  Mon Feb  9 23:06:24 1998
From: anitra at speakeasy.org (Anitra Again)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:06:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FW: Telephone "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980209223740.3053B-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980209230212.5427A-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

This is one "email warning virus" :) that actually does check out. 
The success of the scam depends on how your particular
residence/company's phone codes are set up, but the scam does exist.

___________________
WRITE ON! -- Anitra
Save America's Vanishing Frompers!  Support Thalia, Muse of Comedy, 
in the Site Fights!  http://www.thesitefights.com/circus/clown1.htm

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From jj at scn.org  Tue Feb 10 01:14:20 1998
From: jj at scn.org (John Johnson)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:14:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FW: Telephone "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980209223740.3053B-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980210010539.7386B-100000@scn>

As interesting as this item may be, it isn't especially pertinent to
'scn', except as a contra-example.  There innumerable interesting
points of information in the universe, some of which are even vital to
know.  But in their proper place, which this isn't.

=== JJ =================================================================

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From anitra at speakeasy.org  Wed Feb 11 23:54:51 1998
From: anitra at speakeasy.org (Anitra Again)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:54:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <199802112112.NAA24920@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980211235246.24863E-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, SCN User wrote:

> Who's changing the order of things in the menus???  Bad idea!
> People get used to typing in a certain number to get to a certain area, 
> and if that is changed it just frustrates users.  

I second all complaints about the menu changes.

Bad menu-change.  No menu-change cookie.

___________________
WRITE ON! -- Anitra
Save America's Vanishing Frompers!  Support Thalia, Muse of Comedy, 
in the Site Fights!  http://www.thesitefights.com/circus/clown1.htm

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From help at scn.org  Thu Feb 12 15:39:12 1998
From: help at scn.org (SCN help)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:39:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Invitation to UW Event (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.980212153744.6166M-100000@scn>



 From the SCN Help Desk: Andrew


 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:57:21 -0800 (PST)
 From: J. Salm <jsalm at u.washington.edu>
 To: help at scn.org
 Subject: Invitation to UW Event


We at the UW Graduate School of Public Affairs' Trust in Government
Project would like to invite all interested SCN folks to our upcoming
event on Technology and Trust in Government, as below:


Technotrust:  Trusting Government Information in an Electronic Age
		Thursday, February 19, 1998
			7:30 p.m.
		The Forum (309 Parrington Hall, UW)

The emerging role of the Internet as a part of everyday life has
profoundly affected the way the average citizen interacts with and
perceives the role of government.  More information about government
activity is available to ordinary citizens than ever before.
Conversely, more information about the lives of citizens also may be
available to government agencies.  

"This is a wonderful opportunity to begin to explore the ways the Internet
is changing communication between the government and citizens with such a
distinguished panel of federal and local people who have such a strong
base of knowledge on the topic" states event organizer, Andy Gordon.  
 
Featuring:
Bruce McConnell, Chief of Information Policy in the Office of Information 
and Regulatory Affairs at OMB and GSPA alumnus

Francis D. Fisher, currently Senior Research Fellow at the LBJ
School, an attorney and former federal administrator with USAID & HUD;

Tina Podlodowski, chair of the Seattle City Council Health and Technology
committee and former Microsoft executive.  

Andrew Gordon, Professor, The Graduate School of Public Affairs  

***Also watch out for upcoming student TIG project events, including the
Partnership for Cultural Diversity's event on Affirmative Action on 
February 26 at 4 p.m. in Parrington Hall 309. 



The Trust in Government Project project at the Graduate School of Public
Affairs focuses on the growing public attitude of cynicism and widespread
distrust for government in the United States.  In 1985, GSPA embarked on a
three-year project aimed at exploring the issues leading to, and revolving
around, public trust in government.  The project intends to reach beyond
the boundaries of campus by involving the public, local and state
governments, non-profit organizations, the news media and businesses in
exploration of this critical issue.

For more information, contact Janet Salm at (206) 616-7316 or at
<jsalm at u.washington.edu>.






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From webmaster at scn.org  Thu Feb 12 17:00:45 1998
From: webmaster at scn.org (webmaster at scn.org)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:00:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <199802130100.RAA19593@scn.org>

Dear SCN User,

   You now have a personal Web site on SCN. It's at

        http://www.scn.org/~zz999/ (where zz999 is your SCN account ID)
 
   There are two sample files in your work/public_html
subdirectory - index.html (your home page) and template.html as a
backup file.

   Please see the "Work with files in your personal Web
directory" menu. You'll see "Work with Files / File Transfer" on
the SCN main login menu, and you can go to the personal Web menu
from there.

   When you transfer files to SCN, they'll automatically be put
in your work directory, so you'll have to copy or move them from
there to your public_html subdirectory.

   You can upload text and graphics files to SCN by dialing (206)
386-4199, or via a PPP connection from an Internet provider by
using a telnet client that does Zmodem transfers. (See SCN's
telnet help page at 
http://www.scn.org/help/telnet.html#software).

   You can run the SCN forms processor to send form data by
e-mail. If there are other CGI programs you'd like to run, that
might be of interest to other users, please let us know what they
are so we can have a look at them and possibly put them in the
system cgi-bin directory for general use.

   From your Web directory, you can serve any graphics and
multimedia files that don't require a streaming server, and Java
applet files that are transferred to and run on the user's
browser. There's some help information on the SCN Web site's help
menu at

        http://www.scn.org/help/

SCN Webmaster
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From rclark at pop.aa.net  Thu Feb 12 09:00:56 1998
From: rclark at pop.aa.net (Rod Clark)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:00:56 +0000
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980211235246.24863E-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>
References: <199802112112.NAA24920@scn.org>
Message-ID: <199802130101.RAA25589@slave3.aa.net>

> > Who's changing the order of things in the menus???  Bad idea!
> > People get used to typing in a certain number to get to a certain area, 
> > and if that is changed it just frustrates users.  
> 
> I second all complaints about the menu changes.

Anitra, 

   The menu changes are made partly in response to people's 
suggestions and complaints about how SCN isn't as easy to use as 
it could be, and partly because of changes in SCN's service 
offerings. Several items on the menus have changed recently, 
which means that menu numbers have changed as well. 

   The present menus should be stable for now. And because of 
several comments that frequent changes are undesirable in 
and of themselves whether or not they're improvements, I'll 
refrain from making any menu changes for a while. But some 
changes did need to be made. 

   Because Pine is now well tested and is recommended as the 
default mail program, Pine has moved from its former location, 
as item number 8 on a third level menu that was reached by 
picking item number 12 on a second level menu, to replace the 
Freeport mailer as the first or default mail choice. 

   The old Freeport mail services have been renamed and 
moved from "Read Your Mail" and Send Mail" at the top of the 
mail menu, to a place below Pine on the menu. These former menu 
options were sufficient when they were the only mail services 
available, but as placed and labeled on the menus they were 
leading people to the FreePort mailer instead of supporting the 
changeover to Pine.

   Because SCN's information content has almost all moved to the 
Web, Lynx was moved from number 5 on a subsidiary menu to a 
more obvious place on the main menu, to make reaching SCN's 
content easier. 

   Some people think Lynx shouldn't be so easily accessible - 
that users should be forced to go through whole menus full of 
"WARNING - READ THIS FIRST!!!" material before starting it up. 
Others think that all of that material should be put somewhere 
obvious where newbies can find it when they need it, but regular 
users appreciate faster ways to use the system, and the main 
path to SCN's content shouldn't be delayed or obscured. 

   Until not long ago, the first group, let's call them the Cod 
Liver Oil school of design, always won. They still do, often 
enough. Because of this, everyone (well, almost everyone - see 
below) has to wade through two screens of miscellaneous 
introductory material and three screens of the "message of the 
day" every time we log in, complete with a screenful of "art" 
with tall buildings and mountains, and ceaseless warnings to 
delete this or that file, and an annoying procession of "End of 
File - Press Return to continue" and "Press SPACE bar to 
continue" and "End of File -Press Return to continue" and "Press 
Return to continue" prompts in between.

   This is all material that is Good For You, and that can never 
be made optional. Because you are so fortunate as to have been 
adopted by Cod Liver Oil parents.

   Someone (was it you, Anitra?) suggested a few months ago that 
a clean, fast login prompt would help people who want to log in, 
do something quick and log off again, with a minimum of "oh no, 
not all this again" to contend with. As expected, the systems 
people completely ignored that idea. But it's a good one, so 
let's revive it.

   To make a speedier login possible while still appeasing the 
Cod Liver Oil faction, maybe there could be a note on an 
otherwise quick, clean opening screen like this:

------

    Seattle Community Network

        To see service bulletins, start Lynx from the 
        main menu and pick 'Message of the Day' 

    You have new mail.

    Press Return.
--------

   All the rest of it could just go away, to sighs of relief 
from all of us who only want to get on and get off again.

   This of course assumes that Lynx would be on the main menu at 
all. Someone from the Hardware committee actually removed it 
one day, and put it back on a lower level menu as the sixth or 
so item there. Why? So that everyone would have to go 
through a lot of extra menu items with a boatload of "WARNING - 
READ ME FIRST!!!" material before using Lynx.

   "Hey! You there.Yes, you! Put that fork down. You know the 
rules. You can't have your dinner until you read these three 
pages of explanations and rules about how to eat your dinner. 
At each and every meal, and each and every snack, each and 
every day. Otherwise you might grow up to be an uninformed user. 
Now listen, I'm warning you - put that fork down!" 

   Except of course for the main proponents of this theory, the 
Hardware people, whose shell logins provide (you'll never guess) 
a clean, fast login directly to the system prompt, so they can 
get on and off quickly and don't have to wade through all of 
that stuff. The rationale is that they wouldn't get as much work 
done otherwise. Ahem. Sounds good to me. Do as I say, not as I 
do. Isn't that grand?

   The result of too many endless repetitions of this 
"preventively parent you stupid users from accessing these tools 
too easily" philosophy is that many of those users who have a 
choice, especially Information Providers, do put their fork 
down, stomp out of the room and go elsewhere. Yet some SCN 
admins still insist on prescribing this as "good for you because 
 it takes longer to get to where you can use these dangerous 
tools like Lynx and Pine and it's very important that you can't 
use them without passing through the Hall of Parental Warnings 
first."

   SCN has a lousy reputation for usability. If all of the 
admins had to make do with only those menus and tools that the 
users have, for a few months, my guess is that the system would 
rapidly improve into something that would have lots more 
neato-cool, functional and accessible tools that would be 
available to all of us. The technical term for this is "eat your 
own dog food." And it works. But we don't do it, for some 
reason. 

   To answer your question about who maintains the menus, some 
of the people who work on various menus these days are Rod 
Clark, John Johnson, Michael Hanson and Ken Applegate. I believe 
Chanh Ong and Randy Groves have also edited some menus recently. 
Tom Sparks, Nancy Kunitsugu, and others have also contributed 
menu updates in the not too distant past. I am the culprit for 
the particular menu changes you're complaining about.

   If you have any suggestions about how to improve the menus, 
we're listening. 

Rod Clark
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From ljbeedle at scn.org  Fri Feb 13 04:45:01 1998
From: ljbeedle at scn.org (Lois Beedle)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:45:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <199802130101.RAA25589@slave3.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980213044123.19787E-100000@scn>

Ron,
I agree with almost everything you said but hope that the menu changes are
not done.
Now that Pine is the 'offical' email system I have to go though extra
layers to read my mail.
I do 'go mail'
then 1
then 1
Seems to me that go mail should take you to the mail menu.
Another problem with all the messages at the beginning is that sometimes
we may miss something since often they are out of date and we have seen
them forty thousand times, so we quit and later may find that something
new was buried in the old message.  And once in a while it may be
something we want to know.
The KISS method should apply.
Lois

If you put chocolate in your coffee, it doesn't put on weight.

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From anitra at speakeasy.org  Fri Feb 13 10:08:33 1998
From: anitra at speakeasy.org (Anitra Again)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:08:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980213044123.19787E-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980213100432.14912E-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

Rod, I appreciate your explanation, and all your hard work.  I feel
better now, knowing that the menu changes were the result of thought
and care, and not some right-brained person making arbitrary
changes. :)

However, I still have to agree with those who have expressed upset at
being "taken by surprise".  I though the scn and services lists were
for people who are willing to help out?  So that we can be notified of
chances to do so?  Like menu-change reviews?

No matter how urgent and necessary an action seems to be, if you are
in Seattle you violate process at your peril. :) 

___________________
WRITE ON! -- Anitra
Save America's Vanishing Frompers!  Support Thalia, Muse of Comedy, 
in the Site Fights!  http://www.thesitefights.com/circus/clown1.htm

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From jmabel at saltmine.com  Fri Feb 13 10:21:54 1998
From: jmabel at saltmine.com (Joe Mabel)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:21:54 -0800
Subject: Classifieds menu
Message-ID: <01BD3869.35769F90@stockade.saltmine.com>

Excessive process has its own perils.  I speak as one who has been driven halfway out of SCN by how burdensome it is to get anything done.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Anitra Again [SMTP:anitra at speakeasy.org]
Sent:	Friday, February 13, 1998 10:09 AM
To:	rclark at aa.net
Cc:	scn at scn.org; SCN Services
Subject:	Re: Classifieds menu

<excerpted>
 
No matter how urgent and necessary an action seems to be, if you are
in Seattle you violate process at your peril. :) 

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From anitra at speakeasy.org  Fri Feb 13 10:29:45 1998
From: anitra at speakeasy.org (Anitra Again)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:29:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <01BD3869.35769F90@stockade.saltmine.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980213102436.14912F-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>

On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Joe Mabel wrote:

> Excessive process has its own perils.  I speak as one who has been
> driven halfway out of SCN by how burdensome it is to get anything
> done.

Agreed.  And yes, it *is* sometimes like untangling a Gordian knot
made of titanium barbed wire ...

I do a lot of work in self-managed organizations, which means a
constant juggling act of getting enough input that everyone buys into
the project and still keeping your forward momentum going.  I
appreciate the difficulties.

Well, when it comes right down to it, you do what you think is right
and take the consequences.
___________________
WRITE ON! -- Anitra
Save America's Vanishing Frompers!  Support Thalia, Muse of Comedy, 
in the Site Fights!  http://www.thesitefights.com/circus/clown1.htm

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From randy at scn.org  Fri Feb 13 11:18:13 1998
From: randy at scn.org (Randy Groves)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:18:13 -0800
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <01BD3869.35769F90@stockade.saltmine.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980213111813.009ea170@redwood.rt.cs.boeing.com>

Unfortunate but true.  We somehow have to find that tenuous line between
the 'Wild West' with lone gunslingers, and the 'Buttondown Pinstripe' of
excessive bureaucracy.

-randy

At 10:21 AM 2/13/98 -0800, Joe Mabel wrote:
>Excessive process has its own perils.  I speak as one who has been driven
halfway out of SCN by how burdensome it is to get anything done.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Anitra Again [SMTP:anitra at speakeasy.org]
>Sent:	Friday, February 13, 1998 10:09 AM
>To:	rclark at aa.net
>Cc:	scn at scn.org; SCN Services
>Subject:	Re: Classifieds menu
>
><excerpted>
> 
>No matter how urgent and necessary an action seems to be, if you are
>in Seattle you violate process at your peril. :) 
>
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>
>
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From will at scn.org  Sat Feb 14 10:58:52 1998
From: will at scn.org (Will Hafer)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:58:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980211235246.24863E-100000@eve.speakeasy.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980214104904.28322A-100000@scn>

I, for one, am pleased to see that someone is finally making an effort to
make that musty old incomprehensible SCN menu system a little easier to
figure out.  Of course "orangutans are skeptical of changes in their
cages" and I sympathize with all the folks who know the old system by
heart. But it really did need revising, folks.  And that means we are
going to have to look before we type until the dust settles.
 
Not all of the menu changes seem like improvements from my point of view,
but on balance, I think the menu system now makes much more sense, and
more to the point: it is now much easier to get where one wants to go.


Will Hafer  will at scn.org  206-233-8443  POB 31476 Seattle WA 98103-1476 USA    


On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Anitra Again wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, SCN User wrote:
> 
> > Who's changing the order of things in the menus???  Bad idea!
> > People get used to typing in a certain number to get to a certain area, 
> > and if that is changed it just frustrates users.  
> 
> I second all complaints about the menu changes.
> 
> Bad menu-change.  No menu-change cookie.
> 
> ___________________
> WRITE ON! -- Anitra
> Save America's Vanishing Frompers!  Support Thalia, Muse of Comedy, 
> in the Site Fights!  http://www.thesitefights.com/circus/clown1.htm
> 
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> 

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From will at scn.org  Sat Feb 14 15:51:59 1998
From: will at scn.org (Will Hafer)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:51:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980213044123.19787E-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980214154749.22972A-100000@scn>

I agree that it is tempting to skip the opening messages but after missing
some important info a few times I now force myself to read them all again
and again.  I wonder if the most recent message is at the top of the list.
Then you would only need to read until you get that deja vu feeling.

As for "go mail" there's already a "go pine" command.  There should be a
"go fp" (for FreePort) command too shouldn't there?

Will Hafer  will at scn.org  206-233-8443  POB 31476 Seattle WA 98103-1476 USA    


On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Lois Beedle wrote:

> Ron,
> I agree with almost everything you said but hope that the menu changes are
> not done.
> Now that Pine is the 'offical' email system I have to go though extra
> layers to read my mail.
> I do 'go mail'
> then 1
> then 1
> Seems to me that go mail should take you to the mail menu.
> Another problem with all the messages at the beginning is that sometimes
> we may miss something since often they are out of date and we have seen
> them forty thousand times, so we quit and later may find that something
> new was buried in the old message.  And once in a while it may be
> something we want to know.
> The KISS method should apply.
> Lois
> 
> If you put chocolate in your coffee, it doesn't put on weight.
> 
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> .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
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> unsubscribe scn
> END
> 

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From will at scn.org  Sat Feb 14 16:00:41 1998
From: will at scn.org (Will Hafer)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:00:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <199802130101.RAA25589@slave3.aa.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980214155743.22972B-100000@scn>

I enjoy receiving these messages, this ongoing coversation among SCN
volunteers.  In fact I even tried to respond to the complaints about the
new menus and when I checked in today I expected my reply to show up with
the lastest batch of SCN messages.  But it doesn't seem to be here.
Should I have sent a copy to myself?  Or what?  Did anyone else get the
message?


Will Hafer  will at scn.org  206-233-8443  POB 31476 Seattle WA 98103-1476 USA    


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From steve at accessone.com  Sat Feb 14 20:05:04 1998
From: steve at accessone.com (Steve Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:05:04 -0800
Subject: Spam
Message-ID: <199802150405.UAA15419@accessone.com>

Wouldn't necessarily count on any of this working, but maybe it will 
make some folks feel better....

=======================

New Ways to Stop Spam

Jesse Berst
Editorial Director, ZDNet


Email the government. The Federal Trade Commission has set up a
special email box to take your spam complaints: uce at ftc.gov. In
addition, U.S. Senator Robert Torricelli of New Jersey urges you to
send support for his anti-spam bill to your U.S. representative, or
to his email address: senator_torricelli at torricelli.senate.gov. And
U.S. Senator Frank Murkowski urges you to do the same:
commercialemail at murkowski.senate.gov. 

Boycott spammers. Do not buy their products. 

Protect your email address when you post it. Put in some obvious
"take out" such as 'NOSPAM', e.g. me at home.NOSPAM.com; humans will
recognize what's going on and delete the NOSPAM part. Automated
"spambots" may not be able to recognize your trick, so their emails
to that address will go astray. 

Never respond to spam. Most spam email comes with an invitation to
"remove" yourself from the list. Don't believe it! The replies
usually bounce. What's more, the spammer can use your reply to
confirm that your address is active. 
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From jj at scn.org  Mon Feb 16 01:37:33 1998
From: jj at scn.org (John Johnson)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:37:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: menu changes! (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980216012736.14156A-100000@scn>

Just realized that some of this discussion wasn't on 'services'.  Sorry.
Because of some scheduling problems I still plan on implementing these
proposed main menu changes (or reversions) Monday night, unless I hear
serious reasons not to.  

=== JJ =================================================================

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:39:15 -0800 (PST)
From: John Johnson <jj at scn.org>
To: services at scn.org
Subject: menu changes!

Okay, folks, here it is!  I am proposing to modify the main menu as
described below.  What is proposed will, I hope, satisfy _most_ users as
regards of various issues that have been raised, both recently and when
these were discussed a year (or two??) ago.

To get us over this temporary deranged menu phase I plan to install these
changes on Monday, unless I hear *substantial* reasons (or sentiment) 
against.  If the proposed format is okay with you please send me ('jj') a
message that says "menu changes YES" in the subject line.  If not, send a
message with "menu changes NO".  (I won't be reading the messages, just
counting them.)  If you have a comment, add 'but' to the subject line, and
cc services.  Please consider your comments carefully--I will be short
with anyone (whether pro or con!) that decreases the signal-to-noise
ratio.  (Or starts aruguing trivial issues of wording.)

The principal design criterion is to provide a clean and straight-forward
organization of access to the other menus.  (As previously stated, I
believe that the effort saved by having specific functions on the main
menu is so little--two key-presses!--as to be absurd.) 

(I am also proposing that the main menu have one 'special menus' options,
and all of the restricted menus be moved to that.  I don't believe anyone
has an issue with that.  There are also some implied changes of
subordinate menus, but these also should not be controversial.)

The proposed format will look pretty much as follows.  Ok?


               <<< SEATTLE COMMUNITY NETWORK >>>
                     Main Menu (go main)

Visitor and Info               (user registration, FAQ, volunteer...)

On-line Help                   (look here before you ask!)

Usenet and SCN Forums          (still confused? - ask questions here)

E-mail                         (sorry, registered users only)

World Wide Web                 (various browser options and info)

Work with Your Files           (file transfer, download programs...)

SCN Utilities                  (settings, connect to Free-Nets...)

Special menus



=== JJ =================================================================


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From kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org  Mon Feb 16 09:40:04 1998
From: kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org (Kurt Cockrum)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:40:04 -0800
Subject: menu changes! (fwd) (menu changes YES but)
Message-ID: <199802161740.JAA24068@grogatch.seaslug.org>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980216012736.14156A-100000 at scn>

jj said:
>Just realized that some of this discussion wasn't on 'services'.  Sorry.
>Because of some scheduling problems I still plan on implementing these
>proposed main menu changes (or reversions) Monday night, unless I hear
>serious reasons not to.  
>[...]
>>Okay, folks, here it is!  I am proposing to modify the main menu as
>>described below.  What is proposed will, I hope, satisfy _most_ users as
>>regards of various issues that have been raised, both recently and when
>>these were discussed a year (or two??) ago.

BUT
This is a magnificent opportunity to make use of the right tool for the
right job, namely the Revision Control System (RCS).  This allows
graceful backouts in case something goes wrong.  It also makes the
history of changes available, so patterns of growth or changes can
be observed.  It also is useful where 2 or more people make changes
to the same file, as it forces coordination of effort.

IP's and Web-page maintainers would find this useful (not just the
hsw geeks).  It's too bad they are generally so technophobic, and have
to be protected from themselves, and seem unwilling to learn anything
about what's under the hood of their livelihood.  At least that's
the impression I get...sigh...
--kurt
  If you can't do it right because you don't have the time,
  where are you ever going to find the time to fix it later?
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From jmabel at saltmine.com  Mon Feb 16 11:29:01 1998
From: jmabel at saltmine.com (Joe Mabel)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:29:01 -0800
Subject: menu changes! (fwd) (menu changes YES but)
Message-ID: <01BD3ACE.14ED1E40@stockade.saltmine.com>

Excuse me, as an IP, I'm not the least bit technophobic, although I'm not randomly technophilic either: I think programs, like cats, should be judged on their individual merits.  Would I use RCS in an environment where it is sanely available?  Sure.  I use Microsoft's VSS all the time, to the point of being considered an expert user in the company where I work. Will I wade through 6 layers of menus to find it?  No, I will maintain my site on speakeasy.org & telnet it over to be hosted on scn.org.

If you want people to use _any_ of this stuff you have to give them shell accounts.

I presume Kurt would agree, and this is just his dry humor coming through.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Kurt Cockrum [SMTP:kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org]
Sent:	Monday, February 16, 1998 9:40 AM
To:	scn at scn.org
Subject:	Re: menu changes! (fwd) (menu changes YES but)

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980216012736.14156A-100000 at scn>

jj said:
>Just realized that some of this discussion wasn't on 'services'.  Sorry.
>Because of some scheduling problems I still plan on implementing these
>proposed main menu changes (or reversions) Monday night, unless I hear
>serious reasons not to.  
>[...]
>>Okay, folks, here it is!  I am proposing to modify the main menu as
>>described below.  What is proposed will, I hope, satisfy _most_ users as
>>regards of various issues that have been raised, both recently and when
>>these were discussed a year (or two??) ago.

BUT
This is a magnificent opportunity to make use of the right tool for the
right job, namely the Revision Control System (RCS).  This allows
graceful backouts in case something goes wrong.  It also makes the
history of changes available, so patterns of growth or changes can
be observed.  It also is useful where 2 or more people make changes
to the same file, as it forces coordination of effort.

IP's and Web-page maintainers would find this useful (not just the
hsw geeks).  It's too bad they are generally so technophobic, and have
to be protected from themselves, and seem unwilling to learn anything
about what's under the hood of their livelihood.  At least that's
the impression I get...sigh...
--kurt
  If you can't do it right because you don't have the time,
  where are you ever going to find the time to fix it later?
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From kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org  Mon Feb 16 12:52:14 1998
From: kurt at grogatch.seaslug.org (Kurt Cockrum)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:52:14 -0800
Subject: Trust In Government:  Trusting The Friendly Stranger
Message-ID: <199802162052.MAA29365@grogatch.seaslug.org>

ObDisclaimer: *no* disrepect to Andrew, the poster, intended!!

>Technotrust:  Trusting Government Information in an Electronic Age
>		Thursday, February 19, 1998
>			7:30 p.m.
>		The Forum (309 Parrington Hall, UW)
>[...]
>"This is a wonderful opportunity to begin to explore the ways the Internet
>is changing communication between the government and citizens with such a
>distinguished panel of federal and local people who have such a strong
>base of knowledge on the topic" states event organizer, Andy Gordon.  

...and such vested interests in positive public regard of the government...

haw!  I can't imagine that any of the 4 talking heads, Bruce McConnell,
Francis D. Fisher,  Tina Podlodowski, or Andrew Gordon ever had a
skeptical thought about government in their lives.  Indeed, it is easy
to see from their credentials that they are not about to bite the hands
that feed them.  Every damned one of them is allied to or beholden
to regional or national concentrations of power, or is one of their
clients.  Not one grassroots activist among them.

>The Trust in Government Project project at the Graduate School of Public
>Affairs focuses on the growing public attitude of cynicism and widespread
>distrust for government in the United States.

Yeah, but the focussing viewpoint is that of the government itself, and
the focus is on regaining public trust by hook-or-by-crook, not fixing
any of the things that led to the loss of trust itself.  Now if they
owned up to that in public, and said they were going to make an effort
to change their ways, that would be a step in the right direction.

There's not one skeptical voice among the 4 talking heads.  Questions on
the Drug War or strong cryptography or the NSA or the policy of "lock `em
up and throw away the key" or the nasty FBI digital telephony monitoring
law will be poo-poo'ed or glossed over as the moderator says "we're out
of time...moving right along...next question...".  The whole thing is an
exercise in public relations, not a serious attempt to honestly restore
trust in government.   For example, Podlodowsky will have some slick
rationalization about why we have a "no-postering" law, and she won't
have to squirm more than 2 seconds before the moderator bails her out...

I only wonder why Slade Gorton isn't there, or Patty Murray.  It's right
up their alleys.

>                                               In 1985, GSPA embarked on a
>three-year project aimed at exploring the issues leading to, and revolving
>around, public trust in government.  The project intends to reach beyond
>the boundaries of campus by involving the public, local and state
>governments, non-profit organizations, the news media and businesses in
>exploration of this critical issue.

1985 + 3 = 1988.  It's 1998 now.  Looks like the project "reached beyond
the boundary" of its time-line, by 10 years...and they wonder why people
are cynical.  Of course, the need to repair the image of government
is an on-going one.

I'd go except I'd feel so out-of-place among the faithful that I might
not even be safe.  I don't know if that's an example of the cynicism
they are going to talk about.  But the solution to that is simple, right
out of the Hill & Knowlton Handbook:  Just slap the label "paranoid
schizophrenic" on the nay-sayers and cynics, and the job is half-way done!
And each time that's done, there's only half of the remainder left; just
iterate as necessary...

Too bad they aren't going out of their way to invite some known cynics
(or social change activists; the two aren't necessarily disjoint) to
speak.  They could've invited Geov Parrish or John Fox, or somebody from
Mothers Against Police Harassment, for example.  They could've invited
Joycelyn Elder to discuss how speaking the truth about masturbation gets
you fired.  They could discuss why the DOE, with a legal mandate to clean
up Hanford, instead fires their whistleblowers and wants to make it worse
by re-activating tritium production, under the Trojan horse of a "cure
for cancer".  They could discuss the Nordstrom deal.  They could invite
the DEA administrative law judge who ruled that marijuana is harmless.
They could invite somebody who had their property civilly confiscated
by the police when a crime-rap couldn't be made to stick.  They could've
invited an mid-`80's CISPES activist, or a COINTELPRO victim to speak.

But they will choose not to, because these are *legitimate* reasons why
people don't Trust in Government, and *that* would've made people in
high places uncomfortable, and this exercise is all about regaining and
keeping that comfort.  This event is going to be as bogus as "Crossfire".

It looks like one technique for "regaining the trust of people in
government", namely by staging a foreign extravaganza, with lots of
hoopla to distract people from real or imagined domestic problems,
is about to happen, in the tradition of the Argentine Generals, namely
going to war with Iraq.  Will they discuss that as a technique that has
worked in the past, and speculate as to whether it will work this time
around, I wonder?

It's vital, IMO, that people recognize that the concept of repair of
public image is totally disjoint from mending one's ways.
If it's learned at this event, it will almost certainly be regarded
as an error to be prevented in the future.

>For more information, contact Janet Salm at (206) 616-7316 or at
><jsalm at u.washington.edu>.
But perhaps after reading this posting, you already know all you need
to know about this event :) :)

Cynically yours, from a 93-pound weakling who Trusts the Government
as far as he can throw a piano...a real one, not an inflatable...
--kurt
	"I'm one of the few senators who actually understands the Internet...
	Everybody wants to use the Internet, but first they need to know their
	kids are not going to learn how to make bombs or how to perform some
	ritual from devil worship."
	-- Sen. Patty Murray, Seattle Times, July 15, 1997
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From will at scn.org  Mon Feb 16 13:47:05 1998
From: will at scn.org (Will Hafer)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:47:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: menu changes! (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980216012736.14156A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980216134624.15060B-100000@scn>

Looks good to me!
 
BTW, my missing message mysteriously appeared in my mailbox today!


Will Hafer  will at scn.org  206-233-8443  POB 31476 Seattle WA 98103-1476 USA    


On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, John Johnson wrote:

> Just realized that some of this discussion wasn't on 'services'.  Sorry.
> Because of some scheduling problems I still plan on implementing these
> proposed main menu changes (or reversions) Monday night, unless I hear
> serious reasons not to.  
> 
> === JJ =================================================================
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:39:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: John Johnson <jj at scn.org>
> To: services at scn.org
> Subject: menu changes!
> 
> Okay, folks, here it is!  I am proposing to modify the main menu as
> described below.  What is proposed will, I hope, satisfy _most_ users as
> regards of various issues that have been raised, both recently and when
> these were discussed a year (or two??) ago.
> 
> To get us over this temporary deranged menu phase I plan to install these
> changes on Monday, unless I hear *substantial* reasons (or sentiment) 
> against.  If the proposed format is okay with you please send me ('jj') a
> message that says "menu changes YES" in the subject line.  If not, send a
> message with "menu changes NO".  (I won't be reading the messages, just
> counting them.)  If you have a comment, add 'but' to the subject line, and
> cc services.  Please consider your comments carefully--I will be short
> with anyone (whether pro or con!) that decreases the signal-to-noise
> ratio.  (Or starts aruguing trivial issues of wording.)
> 
> The principal design criterion is to provide a clean and straight-forward
> organization of access to the other menus.  (As previously stated, I
> believe that the effort saved by having specific functions on the main
> menu is so little--two key-presses!--as to be absurd.) 
> 
> (I am also proposing that the main menu have one 'special menus' options,
> and all of the restricted menus be moved to that.  I don't believe anyone
> has an issue with that.  There are also some implied changes of
> subordinate menus, but these also should not be controversial.)
> 
> The proposed format will look pretty much as follows.  Ok?
> 
> 
>                <<< SEATTLE COMMUNITY NETWORK >>>
>                      Main Menu (go main)
> 
> Visitor and Info               (user registration, FAQ, volunteer...)
> 
> On-line Help                   (look here before you ask!)
> 
> Usenet and SCN Forums          (still confused? - ask questions here)
> 
> E-mail                         (sorry, registered users only)
> 
> World Wide Web                 (various browser options and info)
> 
> Work with Your Files           (file transfer, download programs...)
> 
> SCN Utilities                  (settings, connect to Free-Nets...)
> 
> Special menus
> 
> 
> 
> === JJ =================================================================
> 
> 
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> 

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From jj at scn.org  Tue Feb 17 03:11:17 1998
From: jj at scn.org (John Johnson)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 03:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Menu changes...
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980217030738.26373D-100000@scn>

The current main menu now has a link ("sneak preview") of the new menu.
Check it out.  I haven't heard any objections yet; plan to install it
later this week.  (After the shutdown.)

=== JJ =================================================================

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From steve at accessone.com  Thu Feb 19 08:01:00 1998
From: steve at accessone.com (Steve Hoffman)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:01:00 -0800
Subject: State censorship
Message-ID: <199802191601.IAA04017@accessone.com>

States Keep Up Efforts on Internet Restrictions

Jeri Clausing
NY Times 2/19/98


When the Supreme Court last summer struck down the Communications
Decency Act, the decision was celebrated as a landmark guaranteeing
that the Internet would be free from censorship. But the ruling
hasn't slowed state attempts to regulate speech and content on the
global network.

Since July, at least four states have introduced their own CDA-like
laws, joining the 13 other states with such statutes already on the
books.

"These state Legislatures don't seem very interested in reading
Supreme Court opinions," said Ann Beeson, a lawyer for the American
Civil Liberties Union, which helped win the ruling against the CDA
as well as state versions of the law in New York and Georgia.
"Unfortunately, that is often true. ... In other words, state
Legislatures are constantly passing laws that are clearly
unconstitutional."

"What we hope is that our court rulings at least will help us to
lobby more powerfully," she said. "As bills get introduced, our
state affiliates rush in and give the lawmakers copies of the court
rulings. If we're lucky, that will prevent bills from passing. If
not, then we have to consider litigation."

The states are not alone. One of the original CDA sponsors, Senator
Dan Coats, an Indiana Republican, is sponsoring what is being called
the sequel to the CDA. More narrowly defined than the original CDA,
the bill would require commercial Web site operators that distribute
material "harmful to minors" to restrict access to adults with
credit cards or personal identification numbers. Coats contends that
the more narrow definitions address the court's concerns. The ACLU
insists it is still unconstitutional.

In addition, Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican, has filed a
bill that would require all schools that get federal funds to hook
up to the Internet to install filtering or blocking software.

In fact, many of the state laws are based on past or present
Congressional proposals or other state laws, including the New York
State law that has been ruled unconstitutional.

This year, there are four new state bills that are particularly
troublesome to the ACLU, Beeson said. Those are in Tennessee, Rhode
Island, Illinois and New Mexico.

The Tennessee bill is the most sweeping. It calls on Congress to
create a special domain code for adult-oriented sites; requires
rules for the use of state computers, with sanctions for violations;
requires school and libraries to use blocking software, with
criminal liability for teachers and librarians who fail to comply,
and makes Internet service providers liable for third-party
distribution of harmful material.

The Rhode Island proposal would criminalize the use of computers for
"immoral or illegal purposes" involving children. "Every person who,
by means of computer, knowingly compiles, enters, transmits, makes,
prints, publishes, reproduces, causes, allows, buys, sells,
receives, exchanges, or disseminates any notice, statement,
advertisement, or minor' name ... for the purposes engaging,
facilitating, encouraging, offering, or soliciting unlawful, sexual
conduct and/or any felony or misdemeanor shall be guilty of a
felony," it says.

The New Mexico bill would criminalize the transmission of indecent
material to minors and would require the use of labeling or
screening to block indecent material. 

The Illinois bill would criminalize the transmission of "harmful
material" to minors.

The New Mexico bill is crafted after the New York State law that was
ruled unconstitutional by a federal court on grounds that it
attempts to regulate interstate commerce, which falls under the
authority of Congress, not the states.

The sponsor of that bill, Senator Stuart Ingle of Portales, is well
aware of but seemingly unconcerned about the constitutional
questions of his bill. He said it was drafted by the state Attorney
General's office in response to the case of a young Clovis, N.M., boy
who was lured by a computer operator in El Paso.

"When his family found out about this, they looked at New Mexico law
and we didn't have anything at all to prosecute with," he said. "The
Attorney General's office basically came up with this bill to
somehow have some kind of control. Not that it is anything that we
can absolutely control in any sense or fashion, but if it is repeated
time after time at least we have a law to prosecute with." 

Ingle emphasizes that his bill is not an effort to regulate the
Internet or censor speech.

"We are not trying to do anything," he said. "We are just trying to
have something where if a young person is being induced by an adult,
at least we have something they be charged with." 

Beeson said the continued movement to regulate the Internet is
somewhat of a natural course.

"I find it a little depressing, but not that surprising," Beeson
said. "When we got into this on the CDA, we knew there would be a
whole wave of litigation that would probably last years that would
slowly carve out what the rules will be in this medium. That's what
we are seeing."

"Like any new medium, we are seeing this urge for lawmakers to want
to regulate it," she said. "We are seeing this fear-mongering have
with all new medium that it poses some danger to morality."

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
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From anitra at speakeasy.org  Fri Feb 20 05:16:05 1998
From: anitra at speakeasy.org (Anitra Freeman)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 05:16:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Menu changes, menu changing.
Message-ID: <v01530502b112c1e8f210@[207.66.131.105]>

>On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Randy Groves wrote:
>...
>> If the menu changes have settled down, perhaps it is time for a small
>> message in the logon with an apology and a notification that the changes
>> HAVE settled down, and we will attempt to have more forewarning of changes.

At 11:27 PM 2/19/98, NancyK wrote:
>This is *exactly* what needs to be done at this point; perhaps also giving
>credit to Rod and JJ for their hard work in this effort.  It is a
>beautiful menu...

I agree entirely.  Now that I am more used to the menu, and Rod's and JJ's
comments have soothed my ruffled feathers :) and made me realize what
amount of thought and hard work and review *did* go into these changes, I'm
a whole lot happier with them.

Yes, Rod, some computer users hate *all* change. :)  I will now take off my
gray wig, pop my teeth back in, and cease ranting -- about *this* one. ;)

Write On!
-- Anitra


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From steve at accessone.com  Sat Feb 21 13:59:15 1998
From: steve at accessone.com (Steve Hoffman)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:59:15 -0800
Subject: Spam and the UDP
Message-ID: <199802212159.NAA00009@accessone.com>

Anti-Spam Group Threatens to Block ISP

Matt Richtel
NY Times 2/21/98


PALO ALTO, Calif. - One of the world's leading Internet companies
said on Friday that it expects to win a last-minute reprieve from the
ultimate sanction - the "death penalty." 

The company, Netcom Online Communication Inc., has been threatened
with the punishment after becoming the origin for mountains of spam
aimed at Usenet, the Internet's network of discussion and news
groups. On some days over the past several months, as much as 90
percent of the tens of thousands of news postings originating from
Netcom were unsolicited bulk advertisements, most of them
pornographic. 

That was the measurement by Usenet's volunteer anti-spam patrol,
which guards Usenet's 40,000 groups against unsolicited bulk
advertisements. So late last week, the vigilantes threatened Netcom
with the dreaded Usenet Death Penalty (UDP), which effectively would
mean that none of Netcom's 600,000 members would be able to post
messages to Usenet news groups. 

The anti-spammers gave Netcom until Monday to clean out the
spammers, but the San Jose-based service said it met its obligation
by Friday. The anti-spammers agreed Netcom had made "major changes"
but said they would not revoke the threat of death penalty before
Monday. 

"Their numbers are down dramatically - a measure of magnitude or
more," said Rick Buchanan, an anti-spam volunteer. He added that the
death penalty likely will not be enforced. "My guess is it's not
going to happen."

This is not the first time the anti-spam vigilantes have threatened
a major Internet company with the UDP. Last year, the group imposed a
death penalty against CompuServe and UUNET, but lifted the penalties
in less than 48 hours in both cases. In the Netcom case, unlike the
previous cases, anti-spammers gave the company a five-day notice for
the death penalty.. 

As to Netcom, Gene Shimshock, company marketing vice president,
acknowledged that the problem with Usenet spammers has been "huge."
But he added that Netcom has been working hard to shut the spammers
down, and has been at fault for not communicating its efforts to
anti-spam forces. 

Shimshock said the problem is complicated because Netcom doesn't
monitor or censor the e-mail messages or news posts of its
subscribers. At the same time, he said, the Netcom requires its
members to respect the customs of Usenet, which does not allow
spamming. 

It's okay for someone to "write the most foul, repulsive piece and
put that on any Usenet group, but the behavior of posting one piece
to thousands of sites indiscriminately is not appropriate,"
Shimshock said. "The ISP position is in a tough position." 

Still, other Internet companies face similar balancing acts and few
have had the same spamming problems. In the past several months,
Netcom has consistently been among the sources of the most spam
coming onto the Internet. On Valentines Day, for example, 69,654
news postings from Netcom - 86 percent of all Netcom postings that
day to Usenet - constituted spam, according to an automated program
run by the anti-spam forces. 

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
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From mtsvme at scn.org  Tue Feb 24 22:14:40 1998
From: mtsvme at scn.org (SCN User)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:14:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Classifieds menu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980214155743.22972B-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980224220229.9500C-100000@scn>

Just catching up on my email (perhaps a bit late).

It seems this group of liberals are upset by change...

If there is one constant on the internet, it is change.

A couple of years ago, accessing scn through the King County Library, I
ended up somewhere else, the gateway number to scn changed suddenly.  It
was no big deal, I just learned to look first.

If scn is alive, it is going to change.  If it remains constant, it is
falling backwards, and will soon die.

If our webmaster, and others who play with the menus put in days/week of
free time and labor to help the idea, the concept of providing access to
the internet for free, the least we can do is let them have fun playing
with the menus, experimenting, trying to improve the service.

I'm amazed at how much controversy has been stirred up, in I am assuming,
liberals, over having to look up at the computer screen.  Of course, I was
brought up in an era when we learned to not trust big brother, and always
watch out.

Also, from such an intelligent group of computer people, why does everyone
have to always include the same text over and over to the same reply.  I
haven't had a chance to log on for over a week, and found that half of my
mail consists of the same two or three messages, over and over again as
part of everyone's reply to the same message - "legal" spam filling our
internet-ways.

Enough rambling.

Software people, keep the changes coming!

Thomas 

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