From steve at advocate.net  Tue Jan  5 13:39:18 1999
From: steve at advocate.net (Steve)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:39:18 -0800
Subject: CGI scripts
Message-ID: <199901052149.NAA09770@scn.org>

Useful site?

www.worldwidemart.com/scripts




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From anitra at speakeasy.org  Tue Jan  5 15:00:09 1999
From: anitra at speakeasy.org (Anitra Freeman)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:00:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: CGI scripts
In-Reply-To: <199901052149.NAA09770@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901051458410.13010-100000@grace.speakeasy.org>

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Steve wrote:

> Useful site?
> 
> www.worldwidemart.com/scripts

Yes!  I use his Search script, and a number of other people I know use
other scripts from there.

_________
WRITE ON!
~~ Anitra
http://www.speakeasy.org/~anitra/projects.html for a full list of websites
and webrings because if I list them all here, you will be SO mad at me ...


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From douglas  Tue Jan  5 20:51:03 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 20:51:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TIIAP briefings
Message-ID: <199901060451.UAA29670@scn.org>


FYI,

Should SCN send somebody?

-- Doug

Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:42:01 -0500
From: "Judy Sparrow" <jsparrow at ntia.doc.gov>
To: jsparrow at ntia.doc.gov
Subject: TIIAP Press Announcement; Jan 19 Briefing


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:                                                        
January 5, 1998 

COMMERCE ANNOUNCES $17 MILLION IN GRANTS TO BE AWARDED IN 1999 TO 
HELP EXTEND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY BENEFITS TO ALL AMERICANS

Potential Applicants Encouraged to Participate in Regional Workshops

WASHINGTON, DC  Approximately $17 million in grants will be awarded in
1999 by the Commerce Department to state, local, and tribal governments
and non-profit entities as part of the Clinton Administration program
to extend benefits of the Internet and other information technology to
all Americans, especially those in inaccessible, rural and underserved
urban communities, Commerce Secretary William M. Daley announced.

"Across America, communities are recognizing that telecommunications
and information technologies are key to creating economic
opportunities.  The Commerce Department's Telecommunications and
Information Infrastructure Assistance Program (TIIAP) is playing an
important role, as it focuses on underserved communities, especially
inner cities and rural areas," Secretary of Commerce Daley said.  "The
TIIAP program illustrates how technology equips American workers and
entrepreneurs, students and teachers, doctors and patients, and parents
and children with the skills and tools they need to meet the challenges
of the Information Age.  Projects funded through these grants have
helped forge partnerships in local communities across the country and
have ensured that information technologies live up to their potential
and enhance community services, health care delivery, civic
participation and much more."

TIIAP is a highly-competitive, merit-based grant program, providing
seed money for innovative, practical projects that use advanced
telecommunications and information technology.  Administered by the
Department's National Telecommunications and Information
Administration, the program, since its inception in 1994, has provided
more than $118 million in matching grants.

NTIA said it will launch the 1999 grant award competition and
immediately begin accepting applications, which are due by March 11,
1999.  Grant applicants are encouraged to develop projects of national
significance which demonstrate how telecommunications and information
technologies can be used to extend valuable services and opportunities
to all Americans, especially the underserved.  Projects funded so far
include innovations in education and training, support for the creation
of more responsive public institutions, enhancement of  economic
development in rural and disadvantaged areas, and increased public
access to health care.

In addition, the program is specifically encouraging projects developed
by smaller, locally-based organizations that both serve and represent
technologically underserved communities.  Grant applicants are also
encouraged to consider the use of advanced network technologies to
enhance the quality and efficiency of services delivered through
non-profit entities.  Moreover, TIIAP is interested in cross-cutting
projects involving partnerships among its five application
areas*community networking; education, culture, and lifelong learning;
health; public safety; and public services.

"Our purpose in establishing some specific priorities this year is to
bring new groups and people into the process," said Larry Irving,
Assistant Secretary and Administrator for the National
Telecommunications and Information Administration.  "We hope that by
encouraging organizations that haven't been as involved in the past and
by encouraging new partnerships among different types of organizations,
we'll get an even stronger pool of creative and compelling
applications."

NTIA will hold a series of regional Technical Assistance Workshops to
discuss the TIIAP funding priorities, application requirements, and
lessons learned from previous TIIAP grantees. This is a key opportunity
for interested parties to understand the TIIAP goals and process and
meet representatives of other organizations interested in the TIIAP
program.  The Technical Assistance Workshops will be held on January
21, in Portland, Oregon; January 26, in Albuquerque, New Mexico;
January 29, in Memphis, Tennessee; February 2, in Boston,
Massachusetts; and February 22, in Chicago, Illinois.

Assistant Secretary Irving will hold a special briefing for press,
associations and interested parties in Washington, D.C. on January 19
at the Department of Commerce, Room 4830, at 2 P.M.

Information about the program's regulations and procedures can be found
in the Notice of Availability of Funds, published in the Federal
Register on January 4, 1999.  For more information about TIIAP and the
Technical Assistance Workshops, call (202) 482-2048, or e-mail to
tiiap at ntia.doc.gov, or via the Internet at  http://www.ntia.doc.gov.

TIIAP is administered by the U.S. Commerce Department's National
Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA).  NTIA serves
as the principal adviser to the President, Vice President and Secretary
of Commerce on domestic and international communications and
information issues and represents the Executive Branch before the
Congress, other Federal agencies, foreign governments and international
organizations.

###

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From bb140 at scn.org  Wed Jan  6 09:41:35 1999
From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:41:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: TIIAP briefings
In-Reply-To: <199901060451.UAA29670@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990106093749.26165A-100000@scn>

Hi Doug,
I went to TIAAP several years ago when involved with SCN and IPs.  

Successful grants are from community providers that have excellent records
of the services they have provided over four to five years, plus
already-on-board community liaisons documendted by regular meetings for
which minutes have been taken and kept.

The successful grant I saw was 100 plus pages long.

SCN did not have this documentation in 94/95 and I don't think it has it
now.  Crisis Clinic is a better bet.  If you have friends there, why not
send this on to them, though the program has been around for some time.

Barb 

On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Doug Schuler wrote:

> 
> FYI,
> 
> Should SCN send somebody?
> 
> -- Doug
> 
> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 17:42:01 -0500
> From: "Judy Sparrow" <jsparrow at ntia.doc.gov>
> To: jsparrow at ntia.doc.gov
> Subject: TIIAP Press Announcement; Jan 19 Briefing
> 
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:                                                        
> January 5, 1998 
> 
> COMMERCE ANNOUNCES $17 MILLION IN GRANTS TO BE AWARDED IN 1999 TO 
> HELP EXTEND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY BENEFITS TO ALL AMERICANS
> 
> Potential Applicants Encouraged to Participate in Regional Workshops
> 
> WASHINGTON, DC  Approximately $17 million in grants will be awarded in
> 1999 by the Commerce Department to state, local, and tribal governments
> and non-profit entities as part of the Clinton Administration program
> to extend benefits of the Internet and other information technology to
> all Americans, especially those in inaccessible, rural and underserved
> urban communities, Commerce Secretary William M. Daley announced.
> 
> "Across America, communities are recognizing that telecommunications
> and information technologies are key to creating economic
> opportunities.  The Commerce Department's Telecommunications and
> Information Infrastructure Assistance Program (TIIAP) is playing an
> important role, as it focuses on underserved communities, especially
> inner cities and rural areas," Secretary of Commerce Daley said.  "The
> TIIAP program illustrates how technology equips American workers and
> entrepreneurs, students and teachers, doctors and patients, and parents
> and children with the skills and tools they need to meet the challenges
> of the Information Age.  Projects funded through these grants have
> helped forge partnerships in local communities across the country and
> have ensured that information technologies live up to their potential
> and enhance community services, health care delivery, civic
> participation and much more."
> 
> TIIAP is a highly-competitive, merit-based grant program, providing
> seed money for innovative, practical projects that use advanced
> telecommunications and information technology.  Administered by the
> Department's National Telecommunications and Information
> Administration, the program, since its inception in 1994, has provided
> more than $118 million in matching grants.
> 
> NTIA said it will launch the 1999 grant award competition and
> immediately begin accepting applications, which are due by March 11,
> 1999.  Grant applicants are encouraged to develop projects of national
> significance which demonstrate how telecommunications and information
> technologies can be used to extend valuable services and opportunities
> to all Americans, especially the underserved.  Projects funded so far
> include innovations in education and training, support for the creation
> of more responsive public institutions, enhancement of  economic
> development in rural and disadvantaged areas, and increased public
> access to health care.
> 
> In addition, the program is specifically encouraging projects developed
> by smaller, locally-based organizations that both serve and represent
> technologically underserved communities.  Grant applicants are also
> encouraged to consider the use of advanced network technologies to
> enhance the quality and efficiency of services delivered through
> non-profit entities.  Moreover, TIIAP is interested in cross-cutting
> projects involving partnerships among its five application
> areas*community networking; education, culture, and lifelong learning;
> health; public safety; and public services.
> 
> "Our purpose in establishing some specific priorities this year is to
> bring new groups and people into the process," said Larry Irving,
> Assistant Secretary and Administrator for the National
> Telecommunications and Information Administration.  "We hope that by
> encouraging organizations that haven't been as involved in the past and
> by encouraging new partnerships among different types of organizations,
> we'll get an even stronger pool of creative and compelling
> applications."
> 
> NTIA will hold a series of regional Technical Assistance Workshops to
> discuss the TIIAP funding priorities, application requirements, and
> lessons learned from previous TIIAP grantees. This is a key opportunity
> for interested parties to understand the TIIAP goals and process and
> meet representatives of other organizations interested in the TIIAP
> program.  The Technical Assistance Workshops will be held on January
> 21, in Portland, Oregon; January 26, in Albuquerque, New Mexico;
> January 29, in Memphis, Tennessee; February 2, in Boston,
> Massachusetts; and February 22, in Chicago, Illinois.
> 
> Assistant Secretary Irving will hold a special briefing for press,
> associations and interested parties in Washington, D.C. on January 19
> at the Department of Commerce, Room 4830, at 2 P.M.
> 
> Information about the program's regulations and procedures can be found
> in the Notice of Availability of Funds, published in the Federal
> Register on January 4, 1999.  For more information about TIIAP and the
> Technical Assistance Workshops, call (202) 482-2048, or e-mail to
> tiiap at ntia.doc.gov, or via the Internet at  http://www.ntia.doc.gov.
> 
> TIIAP is administered by the U.S. Commerce Department's National
> Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA).  NTIA serves
> as the principal adviser to the President, Vice President and Secretary
> of Commerce on domestic and international communications and
> information issues and represents the Executive Branch before the
> Congress, other Federal agencies, foreign governments and international
> organizations.
> 
> ###
> 
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> 

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From temptingtearouts at 1stconnect.com  Thu Jan  7 23:00:08 1999
From: temptingtearouts at 1stconnect.com (Tempting Tear-Outs)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:00:08 -0400
Subject: >>>>>>  L@@K!    Amazing Free Offer!!!   Unbelievable, but True!
 <<<<<<<   85
Message-ID: <v03010d08b2ba96384d8c@[207.240.233.71]>

To be removed from our mailing list, please send email to:
temptingtearouts at 1stconnect.com with the subject line of "remove."

FOR MORE INFO:   please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown,
and fax it, for the fastest reply to:                1-718-227-9125   (this
is a fax # in the USA)

or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to:
                                         Tempting Tear-Outs
                                         Att. Free-catalogue-by-email Dept
                                         3835 Richmond Ave.  Suite #200
                                         Staten Island NY  10312-3828
                                         USA

SORRY, BUT.... our software is not set up to accept the below form via
return email;   WE CAN ONLY acknowledge forms sent in via fax or smail.

--> IMPORTANT complete directions, to ensure that you get a reply, and more
info follow, below the reply form and the catalogue options.


*------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------*

Name (First Middle Last):
Internet email address:
Smail home address:
City-State-Zip:
Country:
Work Tel. #:
Work Fax #:
Home Tel. #:
Home Fax #:
Cellular (Mobile) Tel. #:
Beeper (Pager) Tel. #:

How did you hear about us (name of person/company who referred you or the
area of
the internet that you saw us mentioned in):  Referred by:  Tempting
Tear-Outs
010699-ls85-lafoubt-la

Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:

Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail:

Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you:

Catalogue version desired (list number of choice below):

*------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------*



CATALOGUE VERSION CHOICES:

1.  This version can be read by everyone, no matter what type of
     computer you use, or what type of software you use.  It is a simple
     format, with just our entire catalogue pasted into the body of a
     single email message, 316K in size.  If you use pine or elm on a unix
     system or an advanced software version such as Eudora Pro 3.0 or
     later, you will most likely receive it as a single email message.
     However, if your software limits incoming email messages to a
     certain size, say 32K or so, then your software will split it into
     multiple email message parts.   Whether you receive it as a single
     email message or multiple part email messages, you can easily
     paste it into one whole text document with your word processor, in
     about 10 minutes or so.
2.  For more advanced computer users:  attached plain ascii text file
     ~316K - you must know how to download an attached text file and
     then be able to locate it on your hard drive or system home
     directory;  it can then be opened with any pc or mac word processing
     software.  If in doubt, don't ask for this version.  This isn't for
     internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes
     pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor,
     than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option.
     This version is great for doing keyword searches and jumping around
     within the catalogue with your word processing software, if your
     normal email reading software doesn't allow this.


VERY IMPORTANT DIRECTIONS TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET A REPLY:

1.   you must call from an "unblocked number," ie. one that is not blocked
from caller id.  We are very sorry for this requirement, but our fax
software requires this before it allows an incoming fax call to connect.
If you have a blocked number, you must first unblock it.  In most cases
this means dialing *82 from a touch-tone phone (or 1182 from a rotary
phone) before you dial 1-718-227-9125.     NOTE:  If you are not sure if
your number is blocked, just try dialing our fax # normally.  If you don't
get a recording telling you your number is blocked, your number has been
transmitted and you may press the start button on your fax when you hear
the fax tone from our fax.
2.   no reply forms can be accepted by email....only via fax or smail.
3.   your form must be typewritten or printed out on your computer printer
before you fax it;  sorry, but *no* handwritten forms will be acknowledged.
If you can't find someone with a typewriter or a computer printer, we
apologize for not being able to reply to you.
4.   faxes with cover pages will be rejected.  You must send *only* the
reply form.
5.   forms not *completely* filled in will not be acknowledged.
6.   you will receive a reply within 1 business day directly from the
company making the offer via email.  Therefore you must have an email
address.  If you read this message, then you must have an email address, or
access to one, at least.   :-)
7.   your fax must not exceed 1 page in length.   Faxes of 2 or more pages
will be sensed, then auto-terminated and deleted.  Your fax goes directly
onto our 5.0 gigabyte hard drive and we must limit all incoming faxes to 1
page.
8.   all faxes must begin with:
*------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------*
and must end with:
*------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------*
9. Any fax not conforming to this format will be sensed by our software,
then auto-terminated and deleted from the hard drive, before any human ever
gets to see it.
10. The type on your fax must be dark and legible.   If in doubt, please
print it out darker before faxing it in.  If we can't read it, we can't
reply to you or send you our FREE catalogue.     :-(
11.  If this all seems too complicated for faxing, just do it the old
fashioned way via smail!!!


WHO WE ARE:

Tempting Tear-Outs is an advertising company that brings potential new
customers to the companies they advertise for.

MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY MAKING THE FREE OFFER:

The company making the offer is a magazine subscription agency based in the
USA.  They have over 1,100 popular USA titles available to be shipped to
*any* country, including of course, to anywhere in the USA!    They offer a
FREE 1 yr. subscription to your choice of over 200 of the titles in their
catalogue to any new customer using them for the first time.       The
dollar value of the freebies, based on the subscription prices directly
from the publishers, ranges from $6.97 all the way up to $50.00!

For new customers in the USA, there is no charge for FPH (foreign postage &
handling), so the freebie is 100% free!   For new customers living
overseas, the only charge on the freebie would be for the FPH (foreign
postage & handling).

Their president has been in the magazine subscription business since 1973
and they are very customer-service oriented.   They will even help you with
address changes on your magazines, even if you move from one country to
another country.   They have thousands of happy customers in over 59
countries.

Their price guarantee is very simple:       they guarantee that their
subscription prices are the lowest available and they will BEAT any
legitimate, verifiable offer before you pay them or match it afterwards, by
refunding you the difference in price PLUS the cost of the postage stamp
you would use sending in the special offer to them, even 6 months after you
pay them, as long as it was current at the time of your offer.    Does that
sound fair?       Wouldn't it be great if everything you bought came with
that price guarantee?

Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal out there,
sometimes just a little cheaper, but always you get the lowest rates
without having to shop around.     With 1,100+ titles on their list, they
would like to think that they have also the best selection around!

Within the USA, for their USA customers, they are cheaper than all their
competitors and even the publishers themselves.  This is their price
guarantee.         The 1 yr. freebie that you get with your first order is
completely free!

Overseas, (even after you factor in the cost of the FPH (foreign postage &
handling) and the conversion from USA Dollars to your currency), on the
average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the
newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines.  On some titles they
are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge.  They are also
the cheapest subscription source for delivery overseas, including directly
from the publishers themselves!   Some publishers don't even offer
subscriptions overseas.........but overseas subscriptions are this
company's specialty!  They feel that magazines should not be a luxury
overseas.   In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after
reading them for just a few minutes or hours.  They are so cheap in the
USA!   Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their
overseas customers.  They are also cheaper than all their competitors in
the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves!   It is also
*highly unlikely* you will find any of their USA competitors calling you
overseas, in order to offer that personal touch, just to sell you a couple
of magazines!  But that is what this company specializes in and loves
doing!     Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are
very patient with new customers who only speak limited English as a 2nd
language.    Subscription prices quoted for overseas consist of the
subscription price, plus the FPH.   You add the two together and that is
your total cost.   The exception is the 1 yr. freebie you get with your
first order.   On that title, you pay *only* the FPH for the 1 yr. term.

Their prices are so cheap because when you deal with them, you cut-out all
the middlemen.


HERE IS HOW YOU CAN GET MORE INFO AND GET STARTED WITH THEM:

Simply fax or smail back to us the reply form listed at the top of this
message.   We will then forward your form on to the subscription agency.
They will then email their "big and juicy" catalogue to you, in whichever
of the two formats you chose.   The catalogue is FREE and makes for hours
of fascinating reading, on its own. It includes the complete list of
freebies, a complete list of all the titles they sell, as well as detailed
descriptions on most of the titles, along with lists of titles by category
of interest and their terms of sale.

They will then give you a friendly, no-pressure, no obligation, 5-minute
call to go over how they work and to answer any questions that you might
have, as well as give you up-to-the minute price quotes on any titles you
might be considering.     They will call you in whatever country you live
in, taking the time difference into account.        As they like to
emphasize the personal touch they give to each new customer, all first-time
orders can only be done via phone, so they can answer all your questions
completely and personally.   Once you have placed your first order via
phone, you will be able to place future orders and make inquiries on your
account, get price quotes, etc., all via email, if that is most convenient
for you.

Within the USA, they accept payment via check over the phone, Mastercard,
Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche.    Overseas, they
accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche,
even if your credit card is a local one in local currency (that most
merchants in the USA would not normally be willing to accept).

That's our introduction of our client that we represent.   We hope that we
have piqued your interest and that you will take the next step to get their
free catalogue!   Thank you for your time and interest.

--
Tempting Tear-Outs.
For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company
letterhead, w/business card, via smail to:   Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835
Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY  10312-3828, USA.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
.	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
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From bb140 at scn.org  Mon Jan 11 11:55:05 1999
From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:55:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free Adobe training for non-profits
In-Reply-To: <11658A9F54F9CF11870D006097677B9A4FC719@mail.seattlemuseum.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990111115228.19552A-100000@scn>

Forwarded from Robin Oppenheimer, Seattle Art Museum:
> Hi,
> 
> Just wanted to alert you to an additional training opportunity.  Adobe
> offers free Training for Nonprofits sessions. They will run from Jan. 19 to
> Feb. 2 and include 7 different classes,  including PageMaker, Illustrator,
> Photoshop and ImageReady.  
> 
> Just call (206) 675-7804 and leave a message with your organization's name
> and address. They'll send you a brochure ASAP and add you to the mailing
> list database.  
> 
> This free training is available to any nonprofit with 501c3 status and is
> registered on a first-come-first-serve basis.
> 
> Robin 
> 
> 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
.	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
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From ttrim at scn.org  Mon Jan 11 15:52:03 1999
From: ttrim at scn.org (Terry Trimingham)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 15:52:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free Adobe training for non-profits
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990111115228.19552A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990111154921.10752F-100000@scn>


Is anyone going to follow up on this?  I would like to attend one of these
workshops as I am not finding any way to get training in these areas
within SCN.  
Unless someone else is going to do it, I will call in and give my address
for SCN. If someone else is interested in the workshops they can contact
me and as soon as the info comes I will pass it on.  

Terry

On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Barb Weismann wrote:
> > Just wanted to alert you to an additional training opportunity.  Adobe
> > offers free Training for Nonprofits sessions. They will run from Jan. 19 to
> > Feb. 2 and include 7 different classes,  including PageMaker, Illustrator,
> > Photoshop and ImageReady.  

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From bb140 at scn.org  Mon Jan 11 22:06:50 1999
From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:06:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Free Adobe training for non-profits
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990111154921.10752F-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990111220556.14466D-100000@scn>

Call ASAP, then decide who goes to what.  you get a recording and they
have to send out a form and that needs be returned by the 14th.
I am going for SPT.
Barb

On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Terry Trimingham wrote:

> 
> Is anyone going to follow up on this?  I would like to attend one of these
> workshops as I am not finding any way to get training in these areas
> within SCN.  
> Unless someone else is going to do it, I will call in and give my address
> for SCN. If someone else is interested in the workshops they can contact
> me and as soon as the info comes I will pass it on.  
> 
> Terry
> 
> On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Barb Weismann wrote:
> > > Just wanted to alert you to an additional training opportunity.  Adobe
> > > offers free Training for Nonprofits sessions. They will run from Jan. 19 to
> > > Feb. 2 and include 7 different classes,  including PageMaker, Illustrator,
> > > Photoshop and ImageReady.  
> 
> 

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From douglas  Tue Jan 12 16:09:26 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:09:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: PUBLIC SPACE IN CYBERSPACE!
Message-ID: <199901130009.QAA27048@scn.org>


Here is a report on how libraries can help support
public space in cyberspace.  Please help distribute
this note.

-- Doug


------------------------------------------------------------
Feel free to distribute this announcement to appropriate
people and lists!
------------------------------------------------------------


PUMP UP THE VOLUME: PRESERVE A PUBLIC SPACE IN CYBERSPACE!

For more information, visit: http://www.lff.org/advocacy/public.html or
contact Jamie McClelland (800-542-1918, jamiem at lff.org).

This February, on the third anniversary of the E-rate, the law authorizing
discounted telecommunications services for libraries and schools, Libraries
for the Future is sponsoring two events that bring together a diverse group of
public library, community television, museum, community technology, and
independent media advocates to pump up support for electronic public spaces.

First, LFF will release PUBLIC SPACE IN CYBERSPACE: LIBRARY ADVOCACY FOR THE
INFORMATION AGE. This booklet documents many of the ways public libraries and
other organizations are designing public spaces in cyberspace. Combining best
practices with down to earth policy information, PUBLIC SPACE IN CYBERSPACE
includes profiles of the latest free, innovative library based Internet and
computer programs, public libraries experimenting with communication and
information services rarely seen on the library agenda, and a digital policy
primer written for the beginner. This booklet shows through example the common
threads uniting public libraries, public information, public media, public
policy and our right to information. Check Libraries for the Future's website
in February to access a free online version. Print orders will be available
for $9.95. To reserve a copy, contact Jamie McClelland (jamiem at lff.org).

In addition, on February 2, 1999, Libraries for the Future, the Association of
Independent Video and Filmmakers, and the Walker Art Center will present a
forum discussion entitled: LENDING CULTURE, MAKING MEDIA: LIBRARIES AND
MUSEUMS IN THE DIGITAL AGE. In the future will libraries become the lenders of
culture? Will museums become the repositories of information? New digital
technologies make it possible for artists to make their work accessible over
the Internet. At the same time, these technologies allow museums and public
libraries to "lend" their collections and archives in ways never before
possible. This panel discussion examines the ways artists, particularly
independent video and film makers, use the Internet to exhibit and distribute
their work, how public libraries and museums work together to create digital
media and information collections, and finally how we can preserve public
access to the Internet so everyone can participate. The forum will take place
at the Walker Art Center, Minneapolis, MN and will be free to the public. Free
copies of PUBLIC SPACE IN CYBERSPACE will be available for those that attend.

Libraries for the Future (LFF) is a not-for-profit organization dedicated to
information equity, literacy and the preservation and renewal of libraries as
essential tools for a democratic society. The Association for Independent
Video and Filmmakers (AIVF) is a national service organization for independent
media, providing programs and services, as well as a sense of community. The
Walker Art Center is a catalyst for the creative expression of artists and the
active engagement of audiences that focuses on the visual, performing, and
media arts of our time.

For more information, contact: Jamie McClelland, Libraries for the Future,
jamiem at lff.org, 800-542-1918.

*************
Jamie McClelland
Access Harlem/Harlem Partnership Center
Minisink Townhouse
646 Lenox Ave., 3rd Floor
New York, NY 10030
tel: 212-283-7477
fax: 212-283-7149
jamiem at lff.org

Libraries for the Future
121 W. 27th Street, #1102
New York, NY 10001
tel: 212-352-2330 / 800-542-1918
fax: 212-352-2342
http://www.lff.org

***************



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From kv9x at scn.org  Tue Jan 12 17:47:17 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:47:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990112173431.29034A-100000@scn>

I got this in the mail from somebody who did not know where it came from.
Is there any thruth to this?  I searched CNN, several law sites, and some
ACLU sites.  What is the real story here?

(fwd)
->>>  > There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all
Internet Users.

>>>  > Please read this and pass it on.
>>>  >
>>>  >  CNN stated that the Government would in two weeks time
>>>  > decide to allow or not allow a Charge to your (OUR) phone bill
>>>  > equal to a long distance call each time you access the
>>>  > internet.
>>>  >
>>>  > Think about that for a minute, and how it would effect each and
>>>  > everyone of us.
>>>  >
>>>  > Please visit the following URL and fill out the necessary form!
>>>  > the address is http://www.house.gov/writerep/
>>>  >
>>>  > If EACH one of us, forward this message on to others in a
>>>  > hurry, we may be able to prevent this injustice from happening!

>>> >  Help Keep the Internet free for our kids.













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From jmabel at saltmine.com  Tue Jan 12 17:59:49 1999
From: jmabel at saltmine.com (Joe Mabel)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:59:49 -0800
Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
Message-ID: <01BE3E55.60BA0AA0.jmabel@saltmine.com>

It's from over a year ago and (unsurprisingly) the decision was not to do 
this.  However, some of the telcos are bound ot push the idea periodically.

-----Original Message-----
From:	Brian High [SMTP:kv9x at scn.org]
Sent:	Tuesday, January 12, 1999 5:47 PM
To:	scn at scn.org
Subject:	new internet "usage fee" bill?

I got this in the mail from somebody who did not know where it came from.
Is there any thruth to this?  I searched CNN, several law sites, and some
ACLU sites.  What is the real story here?

(fwd)
->>>  > There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all
Internet Users.

>>>  > Please read this and pass it on.
>>>  >
>>>  >  CNN stated that the Government would in two weeks time
>>>  > decide to allow or not allow a Charge to your (OUR) phone bill
>>>  > equal to a long distance call each time you access the
>>>  > internet.
>>>  >
>>>  > Think about that for a minute, and how it would effect each and
>>>  > everyone of us.
>>>  >
>>>  > Please visit the following URL and fill out the necessary form!
>>>  > the address is http://www.house.gov/writerep/
>>>  >
>>>  > If EACH one of us, forward this message on to others in a
>>>  > hurry, we may be able to prevent this injustice from happening!

>>> >  Help Keep the Internet free for our kids.













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From kv9x at scn.org  Tue Jan 12 18:37:01 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:37:01 -0800
Subject: Fw: new internet "usage fee" bill?
Message-ID: <000601be3e9d$998e9b00$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>



>Joe,
>
>Okay.  Thanks.  I did find stuff from last year, like ... (see below)
>
>--Brian
>
>http://www.cdt.org/digi_infra/
>=========================
>February 10, 1997
>FCC Considers Digital Access Issues: Bandwidth, Access Charges
>
>On January 23, 1997, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) held an
>open forum to explore the issue of congestion on the Internet. That issue
is
>part of a larger debate over whether Internet service providers (ISPs) and
>commercial online service providers should be charged access fees for the
>use of the local telephone network. CDT along with other public interest
>reprsentatives, telephone companies, ISPs, and commercial online service
>providers spoke at the forum:
>
><snip>
>
>The Center For Democracy And Technology
>1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100
>Washington, DC 20006
>(v) +1.202.637.9800 (f) +1.202.637.0968
>
>For more information, write webmaster at cdt.org
>
>==================================================
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Mabel <jmabel at saltmine.com>
>To: 'Brian High' <kv9x at scn.org>; scn at scn.org <scn at scn.org>
>Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:00 PM
>Subject: RE: new internet "usage fee" bill?
>
>
>>It's from over a year ago and (unsurprisingly) the decision was not to do
>>this.  However, some of the telcos are bound ot push the idea
periodically.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian High [SMTP:kv9x at scn.org]
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 5:47 PM
>>To: scn at scn.org
>>Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
>>
>>I got this in the mail from somebody who did not know where it came from.
>>Is there any thruth to this?  I searched CNN, several law sites, and some
>>ACLU sites.  What is the real story here?
>>
>>(fwd)
>>->>>  > There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all
>>Internet Users.
>>
>>>>>  > Please read this and pass it on.
>>>>>  >
>>>>>  >  CNN stated that the Government would in two weeks time
>>>>>  > decide to allow or not allow a Charge to your (OUR) phone bill
>>>>>  > equal to a long distance call each time you access the
>>>>>  > internet.
>
>
>

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From kv9x at scn.org  Tue Jan 12 19:23:51 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:23:51 -0800
Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
Message-ID: <002b01be3ea4$24a36800$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>

 Joe,

This article I found says that the telecom companies _were_ charging
universal fees ...

--Brian

=== FWD ===

http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/0330/fcw-fronttelecom-3-30-1998.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
MARCH 30, 1998
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

UNIVERSAL SERVICE
Telecom fee rankles cash-strapped agencies

BY BRAD BASS (brad_bass at fcw.com)

ATLANTA -- The General Services Administration and the Defense Department
are at odds with AT&T and Sprint over a new 4.9 percent "universal service
fee" that the companies have tacked onto FTS 2000 long-distance bills that
will require agencies to pay millions of dollars more each month for
telecommunications services.

 <snip>

Mail questions to webmaster at fcw.com
Copyright 1998 FCW Government Technology Group

=== END FWD ===

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Mabel <jmabel at saltmine.com>
To: 'Brian High' <kv9x at scn.org>; scn at scn.org <scn at scn.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 6:00 PM
Subject: RE: new internet "usage fee" bill?


>It's from over a year ago and (unsurprisingly) the decision was not to do
>this.  However, some of the telcos are bound ot push the idea periodically.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian High [SMTP:kv9x at scn.org]
>Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 5:47 PM
>To: scn at scn.org
>Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
>
>I got this in the mail from somebody who did not know where it came from.
>Is there any thruth to this?  I searched CNN, several law sites, and some
>ACLU sites.  What is the real story here?
>
>(fwd)
>->>>  > There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all
>Internet Users.
>
>>>>  > Please read this and pass it on.
>>>>  >
>>>>  >  CNN stated that the Government would in two weeks time
>>>>  > decide to allow or not allow a Charge to your (OUR) phone bill
>>>>  > equal to a long distance call each time you access the
>>>>  > internet.
>

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From kv9x at scn.org  Tue Jan 12 19:26:47 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:26:47 -0800
Subject: FWD: A New Year brings talk of new Net rules (1999)
Message-ID: <002d01be3ea4$8dba2d60$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>

X-No-Archive: Yes

A New Year brings talk of new Net rules
January 6, 1999
Web posted at: 2:06 p.m. EDT (1406 GMT)

by Elizabeth Wasserman

(IDG) -- When it comes to regulating the Internet, the new session of
Congress has a tough act to follow. Before the House impeached the
president, Congress managed to pass a draft of Internet-related legislation.

In fact, the last Congress passed more Net legislation than ever before: a
three-year Internet tax moratorium, a bill recognizing digital signatures,
an extension of copyright protections for digital works and a measure to
protect children from pornography.


This year, legislators are considering the introduction of bills regarding
consumer privacy and protection, spam, bandwidth, online gambling and
encryption, to name a few.

"The Internet is going to be a legislative issue in every Congress from now
on," says Jerry Berman, executive director of the Center for Democracy and
Technology in Washington, D.C.

Not every year will be as eventful as 1998, though. "It will be difficult to
accomplish as much as we did last year," says Jon Englund, senior VP of the
Information Technology Association of America in Arlington, Va. "It's never
happened before that so much high-tech-friendly legislation passed 
although much of it was hanging in the balance until the very end. Still,
there are a number of significant issues that need to move in the next
Congress. We may not have the same number of bills, but the ones we do have
are extremely important."

Consumer privacy is one topic on the agenda. Lawmakers are clamoring to
address this issue because they think it's important to voters. Last year,
Congress addressed children's privacy and passed the Child Online Protection
Act, a measure that requires sites to get parental consent before collecting
information from children ages 12 or younger.

As follow-up, expect legislation on privacy for grown-ups. The Clinton
administration, led by Vice President Al Gore, has encouraged the Internet
industry to develop voluntary guidelines to protect personal data.

By some measures, self-regulation is working. The nonprofit Palo Alto,
Calif., organization TrustE, which requires members to agree to a set of
privacy principles, saw a tenfold jump in membership last year, from 42 to
424 members. Another group, the Online Privacy Alliance in Washington, is
backed by the biggest names on the Web.

But Congress wants proof that these voluntary guidelines work  and House
and Senate Commerce Committee members have bills waiting in the wings to
stiffen Net privacy protections.

Even if general privacy legislation is avoided, the White House is
reportedly interested in encouraging separate measures to protect medical
and financial information. Sen. Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat who
cochairs the Congressional Internet Caucus, has made protecting medical
information one of his top priorities this year.

The structure of the Federal Communications Commission is likely to be
another hot-button issue. Expect hearings on the FCC similar to those held
last year on the Internal Revenue Service. Some observers fear such hearings
could lead to discussions of increasing Internet regulation.

"We want to make sure the FCC doesn't become the Federal Computer
Commission," says Ken Johnson, press secretary to Rep. W.J. "Billy" Tauzin,
chair of the House Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer
Protection. "All you have to do is look at the history of regulators. Once
the bureaucrats get a foot in the door, they come rushing in. We have to
prevent that creeping infection. The quickest way to kill the Internet is to
begin regulation."

Look for another round of debate surrounding Internet gambling. Online
wagering has some big-time foes  in particular, the existing casino
industry. Sen. Jon Kyl's bill to outlaw Internet gambling could be
resurrected. Likewise, antispam regulation could be reintroduced this year,
as control of unsolicited commercial e-mail  spam  is backed politically
by Internet service providers.

Another perennial issue, whether to loosen encryption export restrictions,
could get out of committee this year. Sponsors of the Security and Freedom
Through Encryption Act may introduce the same bill they proposed last year.
While the legislation hasn't changed, the makeup of Congress has.

One staunch opponent of loosening encryption exports, Rep. Gerald Solomon, a
New York Republican who chaired the influential Rules Committee, vowed to
stand in the way of any measure coming to a floor vote in the House unless
it included provisions that gave government access to the "keys." He has
since retired, and the likely new head of the committee, Rep. David Dreier,
a California Republican, is more sympathetic to the cause.

"The general sense is that with Gerald Solomon's retirement, a significant
obstacle has been removed," says David Sobel, counsel to the Electronic
Privacy Information Center in Washington.

At least three legislators  Reps. Bob Goodlatte and Rich Boucher, both of
Virginia, and Sen. Conrad Burns of Montana  intend to reintroduce bills to
loosen encryption export restrictions.

Content regulation hasn't been settled, either. The Child Online Protection
Act, which was signed into law in October, is being challenged in court, as
was its predecessor, the Communications Decency Act. Sen. John McCain, an
Arizona Republican who chairs the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and
Transportation, could bring back a bill that would require schools and
libraries to filter out "inappropriate" material in order to get federal
discounts for Net access. The bill didn't pass the Senate last year.

McCain's committee also is expected to hold hearings on how high-speed
digital technologies will transform the way Americans live, as well as on
whether the 1996 Telecommunications Act needs to be revised before it's
implemented.

Industry lobbyists were pleasantly surprised last year by the passage of the
Government Paperwork Elimination Act, which requires federal agencies to
make forms available online over a five-year period and to recognize digital
signatures. Sponsored by Sen. Spencer Abraham (R.-Mich.) and Rep. Anna Eshoo
(D.-Calif.), the measure was added to the massive government appropriations
bill at the last minute in 1998. Supporters intend to go back for more,
asking the same lawmakers to consider extending electronic authentication to
commercial transactions, which would be considered a boost to e-commerce.

) 1999 Cable News Network. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines.



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From femme2 at scn.org  Wed Jan 13 07:53:00 1999
From: femme2 at scn.org (Lorraine Pozzi)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: NWR: PROTECT your ISP CHOICE (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113075239.15932B-100000@scn>


Sorry for any duplications.  LP

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:17:23 -0800
From: Krishna Fells <solart at earthlink.net>
To: Seagrrls NWR <nwr-list at nwlink.com>, SWG <swg-announce at drizzle.com>,
    Seasigi <seasigi at nwnexus.com>
Subject: NWR: PROTECT your ISP CHOICE

AT&T has hired one of the most powerful lobbying firm in Seattle to
attempt to persuade the City of Seattle and King County not to make open
access for ISPs a condition of the ATT/TCI merger.  Gogarty and Stark
are the folks who managed the two sport stadium issues in Seattle, and
carry a lot of weight in the city and county councils.

It is a sign that our efforts to make open access for ISPs a condition
of
the city and county approving the merger are gaining ground.  We have
the
support of King County Executive Ron Sims, as well as Seattle City
Councilmembers Podlodowski and Licata.  I have been meeting one-on-one
with
many councilmembers, explaining why it is important that there be
competition on the cable modem platform.  But a common theme is that
they
are not hearing from ISPs or their customers.  We have a very persuasive

argument, but I can't make it alone.

The press in Seattle has been very sympathetic as well, with both the
Seattle PI and the Times running favorable articles as well as endorsing

the idea on their editorial pages.  But the councils need to hear from
YOU.

Folks who are supportive of making open access  for Internet Service
Providers a condition of the ATT/TCI merger ESPECIALLY THOSE IN SEATTLE
AND KING COUNTY to write, call, or e-mail the Seattle City Council and
the King County Council.  Even if you are outside of King County, this
issue will affect you downt he road as other cable systems come up for
review, we must set a precedent here.

You may get information on what to say at http://www.waisp.org and
clicking on "what's new" and reading the testimony and Q&A we have been
using.  Also, the Texas Internet Providers have put up a web page to
help in their fight in Dallas.  It has a good "sample" letter you can
use.  That web page is at http://www.peoplehelp.org  WAISP is going to
set up a similar web page very shortly.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU E-MAIL OR WRITE.  Councilmembers are
asking to hear from ISPs and consumers!

Also, mark your calendars for two public hearings where you or someone
from
your staff should testify in favor of requiring open access.  Monday
Jan.
26 from 1130am to 130pm and Thursday Feb. 4 from 700pm to 900pm, in the
Seattle City Council chambers at city hall.

E-mail addresses for Seattle Councilmembers and King County
Councilmembers
are listed below.  Kindly copy me on any letters you do send as well.

Seattle City Council

Martha Choe
martha.choe at seattle.ci.wa.us

Richard Conlin
richard.conlin at seattle.ci.wa.us

Sue Donaldson
sue.donaldson at seattle.ci.wa.us

Jan Drago
jan.drago at seattle.ci.wa.us

Nick Licata
nick.licata at seattle.ci.wa.us

Richard McIver
richard.mciver at seattle.ci.wa.us

Margaret Pageler
margaret.pageler at seattle.ci.wa.us

Tina Podlodowski
tina.podlodowski at seattle.ci.wa.us

Peter Steinbrueck
peter.steinbrueck at seattle.ci.wa.us

King County Council

Maggi Fimia
maggi.fimia at metrokc.gov

Cynthia Sullivan
cynthia.sullivan at metrokc.gov

Dwight Pelz
dwight.pelz at metrokc.gov

Louise Miller
louise.miller at metrokc.gov

Larry Phillips
larry.phillips at metrokc.gov

Rob McKenna
rob.mckenna at metrokc.gov

Pete von Reichbauer
pet.vonreichbauer at metrokc.gov

Greg Nickels
greg.nickels at metrokc.gov

Kent Pullen
kent.pullen at metrokc.gov

Larry Gossett
larry.gossett at metrokc.gov

Jane Hague
jane.hague at metrokc.gov

Brian Derdowski
brian.derdowski at metrokc.gov

Chris Vance
chris.vance at metrokc.gov





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From laurel at arcstudio.com  Wed Jan 13 08:03:42 1999
From: laurel at arcstudio.com (Laurel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:03:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dialogue with Mayor Schell, Jan 14
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113075239.15932B-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9901130750280.5536-100000@drizzle.com>


Mayor Paul Schell, Peter Miller, and Gordon Walker will participate in an
open dialogue and panel discussion this Thursday, Jan 14, at 6 pm at the
Seattle Art Museum, 100 University St, Seattle.

This event is free to the public.
It is sponsored by Space.City, Seattle's Art and Architecture Forum.

Whether your concerns are of the future of your neighborhood or the future
of your ISP, we welcome you to bring them to this special event.

for more information, email etc at space-dot-city.org

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Lorraine Pozzi wrote:
> Subject: NWR: PROTECT your ISP CHOICE
> 
> AT&T has hired one of the most powerful lobbying firm in Seattle to
> attempt to persuade the City of Seattle and King County not to make open
> access for ISPs a condition of the ATT/TCI merger.  Gogarty and Stark
> are the folks who managed the two sport stadium issues in Seattle, and
> carry a lot of weight in the city and county councils.
> 
> It is a sign that our efforts to make open access for ISPs a condition
> of
> the city and county approving the merger are gaining ground.  We have
> the
> support of King County Executive Ron Sims, as well as Seattle City
> Councilmembers Podlodowski and Licata.  I have been meeting one-on-one
> with
> many councilmembers, explaining why it is important that there be
> competition on the cable modem platform.  But a common theme is that
> they
> are not hearing from ISPs or their customers.  We have a very persuasive
> argument, but I can't make it alone.
> 
> The press in Seattle has been very sympathetic as well, with both the
> Seattle PI and the Times running favorable articles as well as endorsing
> the idea on their editorial pages.  But the councils need to hear from
> YOU.
> 
> Folks who are supportive of making open access  for Internet Service
> Providers a condition of the ATT/TCI merger ESPECIALLY THOSE IN SEATTLE
> AND KING COUNTY to write, call, or e-mail the Seattle City Council and
> the King County Council.  Even if you are outside of King County, this
> issue will affect you downt he road as other cable systems come up for
> review, we must set a precedent here.
> 
> You may get information on what to say at http://www.waisp.org and
> clicking on "what's new" and reading the testimony and Q&A we have been
> using.  Also, the Texas Internet Providers have put up a web page to
> help in their fight in Dallas.  It has a good "sample" letter you can
> use.  That web page is at http://www.peoplehelp.org  WAISP is going to
> set up a similar web page very shortly.
> 
> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU E-MAIL OR WRITE.  Councilmembers are
> asking to hear from ISPs and consumers!
> 
> Also, mark your calendars for two public hearings where you or someone
> from
> your staff should testify in favor of requiring open access.  Monday
> Jan.
> 26 from 1130am to 130pm and Thursday Feb. 4 from 700pm to 900pm, in the
> Seattle City Council chambers at city hall.
> 
> E-mail addresses for Seattle Councilmembers and King County
> Councilmembers
> are listed below.  Kindly copy me on any letters you do send as well.
> 
> Seattle City Council
> 
> Martha Choe
> martha.choe at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Richard Conlin
> richard.conlin at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Sue Donaldson
> sue.donaldson at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Jan Drago
> jan.drago at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Nick Licata
> nick.licata at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Richard McIver
> richard.mciver at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Margaret Pageler
> margaret.pageler at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Tina Podlodowski
> tina.podlodowski at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Peter Steinbrueck
> peter.steinbrueck at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> King County Council
> 
> Maggi Fimia
> maggi.fimia at metrokc.gov
> 
> Cynthia Sullivan
> cynthia.sullivan at metrokc.gov
> 
> Dwight Pelz
> dwight.pelz at metrokc.gov
> 
> Louise Miller
> louise.miller at metrokc.gov
> 
> Larry Phillips
> larry.phillips at metrokc.gov
> 
> Rob McKenna
> rob.mckenna at metrokc.gov
> 
> Pete von Reichbauer
> pet.vonreichbauer at metrokc.gov
> 
> Greg Nickels
> greg.nickels at metrokc.gov
> 
> Kent Pullen
> kent.pullen at metrokc.gov
> 
> Larry Gossett
> larry.gossett at metrokc.gov
> 
> Jane Hague
> jane.hague at metrokc.gov
> 
> Brian Derdowski
> brian.derdowski at metrokc.gov
> 
> Chris Vance
> chris.vance at metrokc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo at nwlink.com
> The body of message should read: unsubscribe nwr-list my at email.address
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From aki at halcyon.com  Wed Jan 13 09:37:59 1999
From: aki at halcyon.com (Aki Namioka)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:37:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990112173431.29034A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.GUL.4.05.9901130937490.21471-100000@chinook.halcyon.com>

Its an internet hoax.  AKi

On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Brian High wrote:

> I got this in the mail from somebody who did not know where it came from.
> Is there any thruth to this?  I searched CNN, several law sites, and some
> ACLU sites.  What is the real story here?
> 
> (fwd)
> ->>>  > There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all
> Internet Users.
> 
> >>>  > Please read this and pass it on.
> >>>  >
> >>>  >  CNN stated that the Government would in two weeks time
> >>>  > decide to allow or not allow a Charge to your (OUR) phone bill
> >>>  > equal to a long distance call each time you access the
> >>>  > internet.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Think about that for a minute, and how it would effect each and
> >>>  > everyone of us.
> >>>  >
> >>>  > Please visit the following URL and fill out the necessary form!
> >>>  > the address is http://www.house.gov/writerep/
> >>>  >
> >>>  > If EACH one of us, forward this message on to others in a
> >>>  > hurry, we may be able to prevent this injustice from happening!
> 
> >>> >  Help Keep the Internet free for our kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
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> 

Thanks,
Aki Helen Namioka
aki at cpsr.org

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From be718 at scn.org  Wed Jan 13 14:50:28 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:50:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: NWR: PROTECT your ISP CHOICE (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113075239.15932B-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113144429.4299B-100000@scn>

Please forward this meeting information re: ATT & cable franchise.  

There will be a public hearing on renewing (or not) the franchise for AT&T
(they bought TCI) to do cable coverage in Seattle.

One option is for Seattle to set up its own cable system, as Tacoma did.

Another option is to make AT&T guarantee (with major penalties for
non-compliance) performance including public access to internet
capabilities in the new system.

Hearings:  	(1) Jan. 26, 1999, city council, 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.
		(2) Febr. 4, 1999, city council, 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.

Help overpower the lobbyists clout.


______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Lorraine Pozzi wrote:

> 
> Sorry for any duplications.  LP
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:17:23 -0800
> From: Krishna Fells <solart at earthlink.net>
> To: Seagrrls NWR <nwr-list at nwlink.com>, SWG <swg-announce at drizzle.com>,
>     Seasigi <seasigi at nwnexus.com>
> Subject: NWR: PROTECT your ISP CHOICE
> 
> AT&T has hired one of the most powerful lobbying firm in Seattle to
> attempt to persuade the City of Seattle and King County not to make open
> access for ISPs a condition of the ATT/TCI merger.  Gogarty and Stark
> are the folks who managed the two sport stadium issues in Seattle, and
> carry a lot of weight in the city and county councils.
> 
> It is a sign that our efforts to make open access for ISPs a condition
> of
> the city and county approving the merger are gaining ground.  We have
> the
> support of King County Executive Ron Sims, as well as Seattle City
> Councilmembers Podlodowski and Licata.  I have been meeting one-on-one
> with
> many councilmembers, explaining why it is important that there be
> competition on the cable modem platform.  But a common theme is that
> they
> are not hearing from ISPs or their customers.  We have a very persuasive
> 
> argument, but I can't make it alone.
> 
> The press in Seattle has been very sympathetic as well, with both the
> Seattle PI and the Times running favorable articles as well as endorsing
> 
> the idea on their editorial pages.  But the councils need to hear from
> YOU.
> 
> Folks who are supportive of making open access  for Internet Service
> Providers a condition of the ATT/TCI merger ESPECIALLY THOSE IN SEATTLE
> AND KING COUNTY to write, call, or e-mail the Seattle City Council and
> the King County Council.  Even if you are outside of King County, this
> issue will affect you downt he road as other cable systems come up for
> review, we must set a precedent here.
> 
> You may get information on what to say at http://www.waisp.org and
> clicking on "what's new" and reading the testimony and Q&A we have been
> using.  Also, the Texas Internet Providers have put up a web page to
> help in their fight in Dallas.  It has a good "sample" letter you can
> use.  That web page is at http://www.peoplehelp.org  WAISP is going to
> set up a similar web page very shortly.
> 
> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU E-MAIL OR WRITE.  Councilmembers are
> asking to hear from ISPs and consumers!
> 
> Also, mark your calendars for two public hearings where you or someone
> from
> your staff should testify in favor of requiring open access.  Monday
> Jan.
> 26 from 1130am to 130pm and Thursday Feb. 4 from 700pm to 900pm, in the
> Seattle City Council chambers at city hall.
> 
> E-mail addresses for Seattle Councilmembers and King County
> Councilmembers
> are listed below.  Kindly copy me on any letters you do send as well.
> 
> Seattle City Council
> 
> Martha Choe
> martha.choe at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Richard Conlin
> richard.conlin at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Sue Donaldson
> sue.donaldson at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Jan Drago
> jan.drago at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Nick Licata
> nick.licata at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Richard McIver
> richard.mciver at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Margaret Pageler
> margaret.pageler at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Tina Podlodowski
> tina.podlodowski at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> Peter Steinbrueck
> peter.steinbrueck at seattle.ci.wa.us
> 
> King County Council
> 
> Maggi Fimia
> maggi.fimia at metrokc.gov
> 
> Cynthia Sullivan
> cynthia.sullivan at metrokc.gov
> 
> Dwight Pelz
> dwight.pelz at metrokc.gov
> 
> Louise Miller
> louise.miller at metrokc.gov
> 
> Larry Phillips
> larry.phillips at metrokc.gov
> 
> Rob McKenna
> rob.mckenna at metrokc.gov
> 
> Pete von Reichbauer
> pet.vonreichbauer at metrokc.gov
> 
> Greg Nickels
> greg.nickels at metrokc.gov
> 
> Kent Pullen
> kent.pullen at metrokc.gov
> 
> Larry Gossett
> larry.gossett at metrokc.gov
> 
> Jane Hague
> jane.hague at metrokc.gov
> 
> Brian Derdowski
> brian.derdowski at metrokc.gov
> 
> Chris Vance
> chris.vance at metrokc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo at nwlink.com
> The body of message should read: unsubscribe nwr-list my at email.address
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
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> 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
.	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
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From be718 at scn.org  Wed Jan 13 15:00:50 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:00:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GUL.4.05.9901130937490.21471-100000@chinook.halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113150009.4299F-100000@scn>


Actually, Aki, it appears to be more "old news" rather than a hoax.  It
relates to circumstance almost a year ago.

Rich

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Aki Namioka wrote:

> Its an internet hoax.  AKi
> 
> On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Brian High wrote:
> 
> > I got this in the mail from somebody who did not know where it came from.
> > Is there any thruth to this?  I searched CNN, several law sites, and some
> > ACLU sites.  What is the real story here?
> > 
> > (fwd)
> > ->>>  > There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all
> > Internet Users.
> > 
> > >>>  > Please read this and pass it on.
> > >>>  >
> > >>>  >  CNN stated that the Government would in two weeks time
> > >>>  > decide to allow or not allow a Charge to your (OUR) phone bill
> > >>>  > equal to a long distance call each time you access the
> > >>>  > internet.
> > >>>  >
> > >>>  > Think about that for a minute, and how it would effect each and
> > >>>  > everyone of us.
> > >>>  >
> > >>>  > Please visit the following URL and fill out the necessary form!
> > >>>  > the address is http://www.house.gov/writerep/
> > >>>  >
> > >>>  > If EACH one of us, forward this message on to others in a
> > >>>  > hurry, we may be able to prevent this injustice from happening!
> > 
> > >>> >  Help Keep the Internet free for our kids.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> > majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
> > unsubscribe scn
> > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ====
> > * * * * * * *     http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/     * * * * * * *
> > 
> 
> Thanks,
> Aki Helen Namioka
> aki at cpsr.org
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
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> 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From bb156 at scn.org  Wed Jan 13 17:24:09 1999
From: bb156 at scn.org (bb156 at scn.org)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:24:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113150009.4299F-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113171846.113A-100000@scn>



On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Rich Littleton wrote:

> 
> Actually, Aki, it appears to be more "old news" rather than a hoax.  It
> relates to circumstance almost a year ago.
> 
> Rich
> 



Actually, Rich, it is a hoax rather than old news.

-Andrew

______________________________________________________________________________
   
  Internet Access Charges
  
   January 1999
   
   This is a variant of the historic modem tax hoax of bygone years. This
   latest version started making its rounds on Nov 06, 1998, based
   apparently on a CNN story. Early versions pointed the finger at the
   FCC as the villian in this story. Then it was 'the government', then
   it was 'the Congress'.
   
FCC statement:
"... the FCC has no intention of assessing per-minute charges on
Internet traffic or of making any changes in the way consumers obtain
and pay for access to the Internet."


********************************

  Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 10:03 PM

  Looks like Congress has found another way to tax us.

  There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all Internet
  users. You might want to read this and pass it on.  CNN
  stated that the government would in two weeks time decide to allow or
  not allow a charge to your (OUR) phone bill each time you access the
  internet.

  Please visit the following URL and fill out the necessary form!

  The address is http://www.house.gov/writerep/

  If EACH one of us, forward this message on to others in a hurry, we may
  be able to prevent this from happening! (Maybe we CAN fight the phone
  company!)

*********************************

   This alert is a hoax. The earliest electronic version of it, which
   does not urge any particular action but merely reports and comments on
   the story, appeared on Usenet on Nov 06, 1998. Appearing under the
   thread "INTERNET PER MINUTE FEES COMING?" on the ba.internet news
   group, it cited a CNN story aired that same day. A later version,
   urging everyone to contact Congress, appeared on Nov 18, 1998 in a
   different news group and referenced an FCC release dated Oct 30, 1998
   as the source of the CNN story. The actual FCC proceeding which
   apparently set off this mushrooming flurry of alerts dealt with the
   'reciprocal billing' issue, which relates to charges for
   interconnectivity between various telcos.
   
   In reaction to it, the FCC issued an official statement of December,
   1998, which can be found at
   <http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/nominute.html>.
   This publication restates that the reciprocal billing issue does not
   include any proposal to have metered billing of any sort by the telcos
   for internet usage.
   
   Reputable organizations producing legislative alerts will include some
   basic information which will assist the reader in determining how and
   when to respond. Most if not all of this information was missing from
   this spurious alert.
   
   1) Congress does not vote as a single body. Any alert should name the
   specific body (House or Senate) scheduled to vote to whom
   letters/email should be sent. It will also indicate whether this is in
   front of a committee, and which committee, or that it is set for a
   floor vote.
   
   2) At a minimum, a specific bill number will be cited such as S.1615
   or H.R.3888. The reader can then check the Congressional bill status
   web site <http://thomas.loc.gov> to determine the precise current
   status of the bill before writing to your member of Congress about it.
   
   3) A specific alert date, and a deadline date for responses, will be
   included to help in determining whether the alert is stale.
   
   4) A legitimate alert will say exactly what is wrong with (or right
   with) the bill, possibly even citing a specific section. Check the
   language of the bill on Thomas to ensure that amendments to the bill
   in between the time the alert went out and the time that you're
   reading it haven't changed it to the point where the alert is no
   longer relevant.
   
   It should also be noted that this alert began making its rounds after
   the 105th Congress had adjourned. Although the House of
   Representatives came back into a lame duck (post election) session to
   consider the issue of impeachment of the president, no other issues
   were considered. And the Senate did not reconvene at all. The 106th
   Congress was officially convened in early January, 1999. At the time
   the new Congress is seated at the beginning of every odd numbered
   year, all bills not enacted into law by the end of the previous
   Congress are swept away. The new Congress starts over with a clean
   slate, introducing entirely new bills which must make their way
   through the entire legislative process. A legislative alert from 1998
   is null and void in January, 1999, whether it was spurious at the time
   or not.
   
Charles Oriez
coriez at netone.com
National Legislative Chair
Association of Information Technology Professionals

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
.	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
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From be718 at scn.org  Wed Jan 13 17:34:59 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:34:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: new internet "usage fee" bill?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113171846.113A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990113173446.6850A-100000@scn>


Good research, Andrew.

Rich

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 bb156 at scn.org wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Rich Littleton wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Actually, Aki, it appears to be more "old news" rather than a hoax.  It
> > relates to circumstance almost a year ago.
> > 
> > Rich
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Rich, it is a hoax rather than old news.
> 
> -Andrew
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>    
>   Internet Access Charges
>   
>    January 1999
>    
>    This is a variant of the historic modem tax hoax of bygone years. This
>    latest version started making its rounds on Nov 06, 1998, based
>    apparently on a CNN story. Early versions pointed the finger at the
>    FCC as the villian in this story. Then it was 'the government', then
>    it was 'the Congress'.
>    
> FCC statement:
> "... the FCC has no intention of assessing per-minute charges on
> Internet traffic or of making any changes in the way consumers obtain
> and pay for access to the Internet."
> 
> 
> ********************************
> 
>   Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 10:03 PM
> 
>   Looks like Congress has found another way to tax us.
> 
>   There is a new bill in US Congress that will be affecting all Internet
>   users. You might want to read this and pass it on.  CNN
>   stated that the government would in two weeks time decide to allow or
>   not allow a charge to your (OUR) phone bill each time you access the
>   internet.
> 
>   Please visit the following URL and fill out the necessary form!
> 
>   The address is http://www.house.gov/writerep/
> 
>   If EACH one of us, forward this message on to others in a hurry, we may
>   be able to prevent this from happening! (Maybe we CAN fight the phone
>   company!)
> 
> *********************************
> 
>    This alert is a hoax. The earliest electronic version of it, which
>    does not urge any particular action but merely reports and comments on
>    the story, appeared on Usenet on Nov 06, 1998. Appearing under the
>    thread "INTERNET PER MINUTE FEES COMING?" on the ba.internet news
>    group, it cited a CNN story aired that same day. A later version,
>    urging everyone to contact Congress, appeared on Nov 18, 1998 in a
>    different news group and referenced an FCC release dated Oct 30, 1998
>    as the source of the CNN story. The actual FCC proceeding which
>    apparently set off this mushrooming flurry of alerts dealt with the
>    'reciprocal billing' issue, which relates to charges for
>    interconnectivity between various telcos.
>    
>    In reaction to it, the FCC issued an official statement of December,
>    1998, which can be found at
>    <http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/nominute.html>.
>    This publication restates that the reciprocal billing issue does not
>    include any proposal to have metered billing of any sort by the telcos
>    for internet usage.
>    
>    Reputable organizations producing legislative alerts will include some
>    basic information which will assist the reader in determining how and
>    when to respond. Most if not all of this information was missing from
>    this spurious alert.
>    
>    1) Congress does not vote as a single body. Any alert should name the
>    specific body (House or Senate) scheduled to vote to whom
>    letters/email should be sent. It will also indicate whether this is in
>    front of a committee, and which committee, or that it is set for a
>    floor vote.
>    
>    2) At a minimum, a specific bill number will be cited such as S.1615
>    or H.R.3888. The reader can then check the Congressional bill status
>    web site <http://thomas.loc.gov> to determine the precise current
>    status of the bill before writing to your member of Congress about it.
>    
>    3) A specific alert date, and a deadline date for responses, will be
>    included to help in determining whether the alert is stale.
>    
>    4) A legitimate alert will say exactly what is wrong with (or right
>    with) the bill, possibly even citing a specific section. Check the
>    language of the bill on Thomas to ensure that amendments to the bill
>    in between the time the alert went out and the time that you're
>    reading it haven't changed it to the point where the alert is no
>    longer relevant.
>    
>    It should also be noted that this alert began making its rounds after
>    the 105th Congress had adjourned. Although the House of
>    Representatives came back into a lame duck (post election) session to
>    consider the issue of impeachment of the president, no other issues
>    were considered. And the Senate did not reconvene at all. The 106th
>    Congress was officially convened in early January, 1999. At the time
>    the new Congress is seated at the beginning of every odd numbered
>    year, all bills not enacted into law by the end of the previous
>    Congress are swept away. The new Congress starts over with a clean
>    slate, introducing entirely new bills which must make their way
>    through the entire legislative process. A legislative alert from 1998
>    is null and void in January, 1999, whether it was spurious at the time
>    or not.
>    
> Charles Oriez
> coriez at netone.com
> National Legislative Chair
> Association of Information Technology Professionals
> 
> 

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From kv9x at scn.org  Thu Jan 14 17:59:52 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:59:52 -0800
Subject: Betsie brings Web to the blind
Message-ID: <00e301be402a$be3b1620$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>

X-No-Archive: Yes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/specials/bett_99/newsid_254000/25
4412.stm
Wednesday, January 13, 1999 Published at 15:14 GMT


Betsie brings Web to the blind



BBC Education has produced a new piece of software to help blind and
visually impaired people navigate the Internet.

The program is being released free as 'open source' software in the hope
that others will take it up and develop it further - asking only that if
they do so, they notify BBC Education.

The program is called Betsie - an acronym for BBC Education Text to Speech
Internet Enhancer. It is being shown off at the British Educational Training
and Technology Show (BETT) at London's Olympia.

It requires the addition of a speech synthesizer, which blind users of the
Internet will typically have.

Betsie takes heavily-formatted Internet pages and strips out the text into a
more accessible form. The developers claim it works far better than existing
programs of its type.

BBC Education's software engineer Wayne Myers says: "Standard screen-reading
software finds it difficult to detect columns of text, which means that the
vast majority of web sites, including some of our own, are effectively
inaccessible to online users with sight difficulties.

'Gibberish'

"Most sites come out like gibberish, all disjointed, with half a line here,
half a line there like some kind of random beat poetry, which isn't always
what you want. The funny thing is that the sites that do this include some
of the biggest and most popular places on the whole Web.

"Betsie effectively removes all the columns and rearranges the contents so
the most meaningful information appears at the top of the page. This gets
round the difficulties that most text-to-speech readers experience when they
come across those irritating navigation bars.

"Betsie does not alter the original site in any way, but rearranges content
on a page-by-page basis. All the hyperlinks on a Betsie-enhanced page are
altered such that they point to the Betsie-enhanced version of each page
rather than the original."

To see the Betsie version of this education section at BBC News Online,
click here.
There are limitations. The technical notes on the Betsie site say it does
not work with forms which assume JavaScript to be present and it cannot
eliminate problems with pages that contain syntactically incorrect
JavaScript. It fails on about 5% of the BBC's pages, for various reasons.

Still, the Information SuperHighways Project Manager for the Royal National
Institute for the Blind (RNIB), Mark Prouse, welcomes the development.

"RNIB applauds the work that has gone into devising Betsie. The BBC
Education site is of tremendous potential value to blind and partially
sighted people, and Betsie will certainly enable them to access it a good
deal more speedily, and with less frustration."


BBC )




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From steve at advocate.net  Thu Jan 14 21:06:26 1999
From: steve at advocate.net (Steve)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:06:26 -0800
Subject: Online voting
Message-ID: <199901150516.VAA14877@scn.org>

What a coincidence....


------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date:          Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:38:39 -0800
From:          Franklin Wayne Poley <culturex at VCN.BC.CA>


Charter: At the 1998 annual general meeting of Vancouver Community
Network, a resolution was passed to look into online voting for
future AGM's. How will this effect the 6,500 account holders and the
administration of the community ISP? Feedback from other Freenets or
ISP's would be most welcome. Parts of this discussion, as
appropriate, may be forwarded to federal, provincial or municipal
political authorities. Should the political system also consider
online voting? What about public companies listed on stock exchanges?
If the technical problems can be solved, how will online voting
effect the social aspect of these organizations and their efficiency?

Subscribe by sending one word, subscribe, in an email subject line
to CultureX at vcn.bc.ca

Moderator: F.W. Poley, vcn member.
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From temptingtearouts at 1stconnect.com  Thu Jan 14 18:44:31 1999
From: temptingtearouts at 1stconnect.com (Tempting Tear-Outs)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:44:31 -0400
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <v03010d53b2c459b87fd9@[internet.email]>

===>> FREE 1 yr USA Magazine Sub sent worldwide-200+ Choices!  Up to $81.00
value!

To be removed from our mailing list, please send email to:
temptingtearouts at 1stconnect.com with the subject line of "remove."


FOR MORE INFO:   please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown,
and fax it, for the fastest reply to:                1-718-227-9125   (this
is a fax # in the USA)

or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to:
                                         Tempting Tear-Outs
                                         Att. Free-catalogue-by-email Dept
                                         3835 Richmond Ave.  Suite #200
                                         Staten Island NY  10312-3828
                                         USA

SORRY, BUT.... our software is not set up to accept the below form via
return email;   WE CAN ONLY acknowledge forms sent in via fax or smail.

--> IMPORTANT complete directions, to ensure that you get a reply, and more
info follow, below the reply form and the catalogue options.


*------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------*

Name (First Middle Last):
Internet email address:
Smail home address:
City-State-Zip:
Country:
Work Tel. #:
Work Fax #:
Home Tel. #:
Home Fax #:
Cellular (Mobile) Tel. #:
Beeper (Pager) Tel. #:

How did you hear about us (name of person/company who referred you or the
area of
the internet that you saw us mentioned in):  Referred by:  Tempting
Tear-Outs
011499-l-hi

Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store:

Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail:

Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you:

Catalogue version desired (list number of choice below):

*------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------*



CATALOGUE VERSION CHOICES:

1.  This version can be read by everyone, no matter what type of
     computer you use, or what type of software you use.  It is a simple
     format, with just our entire catalogue pasted into the body of a
     single email message, 316K in size.  If you use pine or elm on a unix
     system or an advanced software version such as Eudora Pro 3.0 or
     later, you will most likely receive it as a single email message.
     However, if your software limits incoming email messages to a
     certain size, say 32K or so, then your software will split it into
     multiple email message parts.   Whether you receive it as a single
     email message or multiple part email messages, you can easily
     paste it into one whole text document with your word processor, in
     about 10 minutes or so.
2.  For more advanced computer users:  attached plain ascii text file
     ~316K - you must know how to download an attached text file and
     then be able to locate it on your hard drive or system home
     directory;  it can then be opened with any pc or mac word processing
     software.  If in doubt, don't ask for this version.  This isn't for
     internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes
     pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor,
     than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option.
     This version is great for doing keyword searches and jumping around
     within the catalogue with your word processing software, if your
     normal email reading software doesn't allow this.


VERY IMPORTANT DIRECTIONS TO ENSURE THAT YOU GET A REPLY:

1.   you must call from an "unblocked number," ie. one that is not blocked
from caller id.  We are very sorry for this requirement, but our fax
software requires this before it allows an incoming fax call to connect.
If you have a blocked number, you must first unblock it.  In most cases
this means dialing *82 from a touch-tone phone (or 1182 from a rotary
phone) before you dial 1-718-227-9125.     NOTE:  If you are not sure if
your number is blocked, just try dialing our fax # normally.  If you don't
get a recording telling you your number is blocked, your number has been
transmitted and you may press the start button on your fax when you hear
the fax tone from our fax.
2.   no reply forms can be accepted by email....only via fax or smail.
3.   your form must be typewritten or printed out on your computer printer
before you fax it;  sorry, but *no* handwritten forms will be acknowledged.
If you can't find someone with a typewriter or a computer printer, we
apologize for not being able to reply to you.
4.   faxes with cover pages will be rejected.  You must send *only* the
reply form.
5.   forms not *completely* filled in will not be acknowledged.
6.   you will receive a reply within 1 business day directly from the
company making the offer via email.  Therefore you must have an email
address.  If you read this message, then you must have an email address, or
access to one, at least.   :-)
7.   your fax must not exceed 1 page in length.   Faxes of 2 or more pages
will be sensed, then auto-terminated and deleted.  Your fax goes directly
onto our 5.0 gigabyte hard drive and we must limit all incoming faxes to 1
page.
8.   all faxes must begin with:
*------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------*
and must end with:
*------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------*
9. Any fax not conforming to this format will be sensed by our software,
then auto-terminated and deleted from the hard drive, before any human ever
gets to see it.
10. The type on your fax must be dark and legible.   If in doubt, please
print it out darker before faxing it in.  If we can't read it, we can't
reply to you or send you our FREE catalogue.     :-(
11.  If this all seems too complicated for faxing, just do it the old
fashioned way via smail!!!


WHO WE ARE:

Tempting Tear-Outs is an advertising company that brings potential new
customers to the companies they advertise for.

MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY MAKING THE FREE OFFER:

The company making the offer is a magazine subscription agency based in the
USA.  They have over 1,100 popular USA titles available to be shipped to
*any* country, including of course, to anywhere in the USA!    They offer a
FREE 1 yr. subscription to your choice of over 200 of the titles in their
catalogue to any new customer using them for the first time.       The
dollar value of the freebies, based on the subscription prices directly
from the publishers, ranges from $6.97 all the way up to $50.00!

For new customers in the USA, there is no charge for FPH (foreign postage &
handling), so the freebie is 100% free!   For new customers living
overseas, the only charge on the freebie would be for the FPH (foreign
postage & handling).

Their president has been in the magazine subscription business since 1973
and they are very customer-service oriented.   They will even help you with
address changes on your magazines, even if you move from one country to
another country.   They have thousands of happy customers in over 59
countries.

Their price guarantee is very simple:       they guarantee that their
subscription prices are the lowest available and they will BEAT any
legitimate, verifiable offer before you pay them or match it afterwards, by
refunding you the difference in price PLUS the cost of the postage stamp
you would use sending in the special offer to them, even 6 months after you
pay them, as long as it was current at the time of your offer.    Does that
sound fair?       Wouldn't it be great if everything you bought came with
that price guarantee?

Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal out there,
sometimes just a little cheaper, but always you get the lowest rates
without having to shop around.     With 1,100+ titles on their list, they
would like to think that they have also the best selection around!

Within the USA, for their USA customers, they are cheaper than all their
competitors and even the publishers themselves.  This is their price
guarantee.         The 1 yr. freebie that you get with your first order is
completely free!

Overseas, (even after you factor in the cost of the FPH (foreign postage &
handling) and the conversion from USA Dollars to your currency), on the
average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the
newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines.  On some titles they
are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge.  They are also
the cheapest subscription source for delivery overseas, including directly
from the publishers themselves!   Some publishers don't even offer
subscriptions overseas.........but overseas subscriptions are this
company's specialty!  They feel that magazines should not be a luxury
overseas.   In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after
reading them for just a few minutes or hours.  They are so cheap in the
USA!   Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their
overseas customers.  They are also cheaper than all their competitors in
the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves!   It is also
*highly unlikely* you will find any of their USA competitors calling you
overseas, in order to offer that personal touch, just to sell you a couple
of magazines!  But that is what this company specializes in and loves
doing!     Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are
very patient with new customers who only speak limited English as a 2nd
language.    Subscription prices quoted for overseas consist of the
subscription price, plus the FPH.   You add the two together and that is
your total cost.   The exception is the 1 yr. freebie you get with your
first order.   On that title, you pay *only* the FPH for the 1 yr. term.

Their prices are so cheap because when you deal with them, you cut-out all
the middlemen.


HERE IS HOW YOU CAN GET MORE INFO AND GET STARTED WITH THEM:

Simply fax or smail back to us the reply form listed at the top of this
message.   We will then forward your form on to the subscription agency.
They will then email their "big and juicy" catalogue to you, in whichever
of the two formats you chose.   The catalogue is FREE and makes for hours
of fascinating reading, on its own. It includes the complete list of
freebies, a complete list of all the titles they sell, as well as detailed
descriptions on most of the titles, along with lists of titles by category
of interest and their terms of sale.

They will then give you a friendly, no-pressure, no obligation, 5-minute
call to go over how they work and to answer any questions that you might
have, as well as give you up-to-the minute price quotes on any titles you
might be considering.     They will call you in whatever country you live
in, taking the time difference into account.        As they like to
emphasize the personal touch they give to each new customer, all first-time
orders can only be done via phone, so they can answer all your questions
completely and personally.   Once you have placed your first order via
phone, you will be able to place future orders and make inquiries on your
account, get price quotes, etc., all via email, if that is most convenient
for you.

Within the USA, they accept payment via check over the phone, Mastercard,
Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche.    Overseas, they
accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche,
even if your credit card is a local one in local currency (that most
merchants in the USA would not normally be willing to accept).

That's our introduction of our client that we represent.   We hope that we
have piqued your interest and that you will take the next step to get their
free catalogue!   Thank you for your time and interest.

--
Tempting Tear-Outs.
For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company
letterhead, w/business card, via smail to:   Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835
Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY  10312-3828, USA.


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majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
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From will at scn.org  Fri Jan 15 11:12:23 1999
From: will at scn.org (Will Hafer)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:12:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mail not sent: <abuse@axime.com>... Please don't use our site for spam!]
In-Reply-To: <199901150516.VAA14877@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990115110819.24872D-100000@scn>

I found bit of spam in my mailbox this morning, and as has been my habit,
I tried to forward it to "abuse" at the ISP from which it seemed to
originate:  axime.com. 

But when I hit the send command I got this message:
 
[Mail not sent: <abuse at axime.com>... Please don't use our site for spam!]

I tried two more times and got the same message.

What does this mean?  Perhaps one of you can direct me to a FAQ on the
approprite way to deal with spam received at SCN.

Will Hafer  will at scn.org  206-233-8443  POB 31476 Seattle WA 98103-1476 USA    


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From xx031 at scn.org  Mon Jan 18 03:32:56 1999
From: xx031 at scn.org (SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 03:32:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SCN/A Volunteerism
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118032549.15022A-100000@scn>

Dear SCN/A Members & Volunteers,
 
As we launch a new year in SCN/A, we are also launching a new volunteer
program! 
 
We ask you (all of you!) to simply send a short reply to this message,
letting us know (1) whether you are or have been an SCN/A volunteer, and
(2) whether you might consider working on the current volunteer needs
within SCN/A. Please reply to the From:  address only (and not back to all
of the lists). 

Please check which ever of the following apply:

__ I have been an SCN/A volunteer in the past.
__ I am currently an SCN/A volunteer.
__ I might be available for current SCN/A volunteer needs.

If you know anyone else interested in volunteering for SCN/A, or if you
know anyone who is a volunteer but isn't on any of the scn-related
maillists, please have them send email to us, or call (206) 365-4528! 
 
Thank you for your participation - past, present and future!

Sincerely,
     The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:  
     Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest

p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence. 

p.p.s. we apologize for the multiple copies you are likely to receive of
this - and hope you understand how important it is that we hit so many of
the SCN maillists ;-)

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From be718 at scn.org  Mon Jan 18 04:55:38 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 04:55:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118032549.15022A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118045354.20128C-100000@scn>


I would like to see the results of this survey.  Would you publish the
results as a broadcast message as you did the survey?

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee wrote:

> Dear SCN/A Members & Volunteers,
>  
> As we launch a new year in SCN/A, we are also launching a new volunteer
> program! 
>  
> We ask you (all of you!) to simply send a short reply to this message,
> letting us know (1) whether you are or have been an SCN/A volunteer, and
> (2) whether you might consider working on the current volunteer needs
> within SCN/A. Please reply to the From:  address only (and not back to all
> of the lists). 
> 
> Please check which ever of the following apply:
> 
> __ I have been an SCN/A volunteer in the past.
> __ I am currently an SCN/A volunteer.
> __ I might be available for current SCN/A volunteer needs.
> 
> If you know anyone else interested in volunteering for SCN/A, or if you
> know anyone who is a volunteer but isn't on any of the scn-related
> maillists, please have them send email to us, or call (206) 365-4528! 
>  
> Thank you for your participation - past, present and future!
> 
> Sincerely,
>      The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:  
>      Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest
> 
> p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
> whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
> collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence. 
> 
> p.p.s. we apologize for the multiple copies you are likely to receive of
> this - and hope you understand how important it is that we hit so many of
> the SCN maillists ;-)
> 
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> 

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From xx031 at scn.org  Mon Jan 18 15:50:43 1999
From: xx031 at scn.org (SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:50:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118045354.20128C-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118151607.4240A-100000@scn>

On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Rich Littleton wrote:

> 
> I would like to see the results of this survey.  Would you publish the
> results as a broadcast message as you did the survey?
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> *****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******
> 

Hi, Rich,

As stated in the document:

p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence.

Thanks for your interest.


> On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee wrote:
> 
> > Dear SCN/A Members & Volunteers,
> >  
> > As we launch a new year in SCN/A, we are also launching a new volunteer
> > program! 
> >  
> > We ask you (all of you!) to simply send a short reply to this message,
> > letting us know (1) whether you are or have been an SCN/A volunteer, and
> > (2) whether you might consider working on the current volunteer needs
> > within SCN/A. Please reply to the From:  address only (and not back to all
> > of the lists). 
> > 
> > Please check which ever of the following apply:
> > 
> > __ I have been an SCN/A volunteer in the past.
> > __ I am currently an SCN/A volunteer.
> > __ I might be available for current SCN/A volunteer needs.
> > 
> > If you know anyone else interested in volunteering for SCN/A, or if you
> > know anyone who is a volunteer but isn't on any of the scn-related
> > maillists, please have them send email to us, or call (206) 365-4528! 
> >  
> > Thank you for your participation - past, present and future!
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> >      The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:  
> >      Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest
> > 
> > p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
> > whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
> > collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence. 
> > 
> > p.p.s. we apologize for the multiple copies you are likely to receive of
> > this - and hope you understand how important it is that we hit so many of
> > the SCN maillists ;-)
> > 
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> > majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
> > unsubscribe scn
> > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ====
> > * * * * * * *     http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/     * * * * * * *
> > 
> 
> 

--Jim Haskins

SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee <xx031 at scn.org>
     The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:
     Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest

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From jmabel at saltmine.com  Mon Jan 18 16:07:32 1999
From: jmabel at saltmine.com (Joe Mabel)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:07:32 -0800
Subject: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?
Message-ID: <01BE42FC.A8651060.jmabel@saltmine.com>

You can hold the names inconfidence & still publish the number of each response.

-----Original Message-----
From:	SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee [SMTP:xx031 at scn.org]
Sent:	Monday, January 18, 1999 3:51 PM
To:	Rich Littleton
Cc:	scn at scn.org; mentors at scn.org; services at scn.org
Subject:	Re: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?

On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Rich Littleton wrote:

> 
> I would like to see the results of this survey.  Would you publish the
> results as a broadcast message as you did the survey?
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> *****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******
> 

Hi, Rich,

As stated in the document:

p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence.

Thanks for your interest.


> On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee wrote:
> 
> > Dear SCN/A Members & Volunteers,
> >  
> > As we launch a new year in SCN/A, we are also launching a new volunteer
> > program! 
> >  
> > We ask you (all of you!) to simply send a short reply to this message,
> > letting us know (1) whether you are or have been an SCN/A volunteer, and
> > (2) whether you might consider working on the current volunteer needs
> > within SCN/A. Please reply to the From:  address only (and not back to all
> > of the lists). 
> > 
> > Please check which ever of the following apply:
> > 
> > __ I have been an SCN/A volunteer in the past.
> > __ I am currently an SCN/A volunteer.
> > __ I might be available for current SCN/A volunteer needs.
> > 
> > If you know anyone else interested in volunteering for SCN/A, or if you
> > know anyone who is a volunteer but isn't on any of the scn-related
> > maillists, please have them send email to us, or call (206) 365-4528! 
> >  
> > Thank you for your participation - past, present and future!
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> >      The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:  
> >      Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest
> > 
> > p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
> > whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
> > collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence. 
> > 
> > p.p.s. we apologize for the multiple copies you are likely to receive of
> > this - and hope you understand how important it is that we hit so many of
> > the SCN maillists ;-)
> > 
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> > majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
> > unsubscribe scn
> > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ====
> > * * * * * * *     http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/     * * * * * * *
> > 
> 
> 

--Jim Haskins

SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee <xx031 at scn.org>
     The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:
     Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest

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From xx031 at scn.org  Mon Jan 18 20:11:36 1999
From: xx031 at scn.org (SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:11:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?
In-Reply-To: <01BE42FC.A8651060.jmabel@saltmine.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118200353.6144G-100000@scn>

Ok...  I see...  I'll take it up with the HR committee.

Thanks.

--Jim Haskins

SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee <xx031 at scn.org>
     The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:
     Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest


On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Joe Mabel wrote:

> You can hold the names inconfidence & still publish the number of each response.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee [SMTP:xx031 at scn.org]
> Sent:	Monday, January 18, 1999 3:51 PM
> To:	Rich Littleton
> Cc:	scn at scn.org; mentors at scn.org; services at scn.org
> Subject:	Re: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?
> 
> On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Rich Littleton wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I would like to see the results of this survey.  Would you publish the
> > results as a broadcast message as you did the survey?
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > 
> > *****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******
> > 
> 
> Hi, Rich,
> 
> As stated in the document:
> 
> p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
> whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
> collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence.
> 
> Thanks for your interest.
> 
> 
> > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear SCN/A Members & Volunteers,
> > >  
> > > As we launch a new year in SCN/A, we are also launching a new volunteer
> > > program! 
> > >  
> > > We ask you (all of you!) to simply send a short reply to this message,
> > > letting us know (1) whether you are or have been an SCN/A volunteer, and
> > > (2) whether you might consider working on the current volunteer needs
> > > within SCN/A. Please reply to the From:  address only (and not back to all
> > > of the lists). 
> > > 
> > > Please check which ever of the following apply:
> > > 
> > > __ I have been an SCN/A volunteer in the past.
> > > __ I am currently an SCN/A volunteer.
> > > __ I might be available for current SCN/A volunteer needs.
> > > 
> > > If you know anyone else interested in volunteering for SCN/A, or if you
> > > know anyone who is a volunteer but isn't on any of the scn-related
> > > maillists, please have them send email to us, or call (206) 365-4528! 
> > >  
> > > Thank you for your participation - past, present and future!
> > > 
> > > Sincerely,
> > >      The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:  
> > >      Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest
> > > 
> > > p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
> > > whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
> > > collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence. 
> > > 
> > > p.p.s. we apologize for the multiple copies you are likely to receive of
> > > this - and hope you understand how important it is that we hit so many of
> > > the SCN maillists ;-)
> > > 
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> > > majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
> > > unsubscribe scn
> > > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ====
> > > * * * * * * *     http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/     * * * * * * *
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --Jim Haskins
> 
> SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee <xx031 at scn.org>
>      The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:
>      Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
> unsubscribe scn
> ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ====
> * * * * * * *     http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/     * * * * * * *
> 
> 

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From bb615 at scn.org  Mon Jan 18 20:20:08 1999
From: bb615 at scn.org (Rod Clark)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:20:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118200353.6144G-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118201444.24174A-100000@scn>

> > You can hold the names inconfidence & still publish the
> > number of each response.

> Ok...  I see...  I'll take it up with the HR committee.

Jim, 

   You might also take the skills data from the original forms
(it hasn't been more than a few years - people aren't going to
forget their basic and most important skills in that time) for
those people who say they're current, and publish the results.
I've never seen anything like that done at SCN before, and would
consider it interesting. There aren't more than a few dozen
active volunteers, are there? It should be logistically possible
to make a skills grid of some kind, and see where we're well
represented and where we aren't.

Rod Clark

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From be718 at scn.org  Mon Jan 18 23:48:43 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:48:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: SCN/A Volunteerism// Will we see the survey results?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118151607.4240A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990118234452.17709B-100000@scn>


I do not want confidence.  If I'm doing a job for SCN, there is no reason
other SCN members can't know about it.

However, particular names are not relevant to my interest.  Will we be
able to see the results of the survey, at least in a category-by-category
manner?  (e.g. 4,000 in services; 3,500 in e-mail, 2,000 in hardware ...
that sort of thing)

Thanks.  I look forward to your reply and would also like to see what
timeline you are operating on;  that is, by what date should the replies
arrive.

BTW, I sent in my info before I sent in the question.

Hasta later,

Rich

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Rich Littleton wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I would like to see the results of this survey.  Would you publish the
> > results as a broadcast message as you did the survey?
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > 
> > *****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******
> > 
> 
> Hi, Rich,
> 
> As stated in the document:
> 
> p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
> whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
> collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence.
> 
> Thanks for your interest.
> 
> 
> > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear SCN/A Members & Volunteers,
> > >  
> > > As we launch a new year in SCN/A, we are also launching a new volunteer
> > > program! 
> > >  
> > > We ask you (all of you!) to simply send a short reply to this message,
> > > letting us know (1) whether you are or have been an SCN/A volunteer, and
> > > (2) whether you might consider working on the current volunteer needs
> > > within SCN/A. Please reply to the From:  address only (and not back to all
> > > of the lists). 
> > > 
> > > Please check which ever of the following apply:
> > > 
> > > __ I have been an SCN/A volunteer in the past.
> > > __ I am currently an SCN/A volunteer.
> > > __ I might be available for current SCN/A volunteer needs.
> > > 
> > > If you know anyone else interested in volunteering for SCN/A, or if you
> > > know anyone who is a volunteer but isn't on any of the scn-related
> > > maillists, please have them send email to us, or call (206) 365-4528! 
> > >  
> > > Thank you for your participation - past, present and future!
> > > 
> > > Sincerely,
> > >      The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:  
> > >      Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest
> > > 
> > > p.s. please, please, please reply - if you don't reply, we won't know
> > > whether or not you are still currently active as a volunteer. Information
> > > collected about you and your volunteering will be held in confidence. 
> > > 
> > > p.p.s. we apologize for the multiple copies you are likely to receive of
> > > this - and hope you understand how important it is that we hit so many of
> > > the SCN maillists ;-)
> > > 
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > .	To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to:
> > > majordomo at scn.org		In the body of the message, type:
> > > unsubscribe scn
> > > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ====
> > > * * * * * * *     http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/     * * * * * * *
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --Jim Haskins
> 
> SCN Volunteer Coordination Committee <xx031 at scn.org>
>      The SCN/A Human Resources Committee:
>      Joel Ware, Jim Haskins, Steve & Melissa Guest
> 
> 

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From douglas  Thu Jan 21 11:22:43 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:22:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux free software movement
Message-ID: <199901211922.LAA05842@scn.org>



I'm *definitely* supposed to be doing everything but posting here...

But..

I just finished an article on Linux and the free software movement.
These hackers (from all over the world) are working together to build
open-source operating system, software tools, and, recently, a public
domain GUI (called gnome - pronounced guh-nome).  They seem to be taken
very seriously -- especially in third world countries that can't afford
version 173.2.1 updates, etc.

My questions --

1. Do *we* (community networkers) offer anything analogous?  (Seems to
me that the Usenet newsgroups may be the closest thing.  What's our
connection to THEM?  will the web put THEM out of business?  I wonder
how their numbers are growing. )

2.  How can *we*  build bridges with them?  Is there a natural fit:
public software, public information, public communication?

The Technology Review article closed with a quote from Gandhi:

First they ignore you, then they laugh, then they fight, then they
lose.


-- Doug

BTW, The Peter Kollock and Marc Smith book on "Communities in Cyberspace"
is now out.  It has lots of empirical study on usenet newsgroups,etc.
(Routledge)

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From douglas  Thu Jan 21 15:27:22 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:27:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Computers for Nonprofits - 1/20/99
Message-ID: <199901212327.PAA29494@scn.org>


FYI,


The investment firm Piper Jaffray recently donated 2,000 computers to
DRAGnet, a non-profit organization that refurbishes and recycles computers.
DRAGnet provides other non-profit groups with valuable technology, according
to a Jan. 19 press release.

"We're excited about making this contribution to those who most need access
to these high-quality computers," said Teresa Bonner, public-affairs
director at Piper Jaffray, Inc.

DRAGnet, the largest non-profit computer recycler in the United States,
recycles, refurbishes and reuses all computer-related electronics to benefit
disadvantaged individuals and the organizations that serve them. The
computers are distributed to disadvantaged people, families, schools and
non-profit organizations nationwide.

The donation from Piper Jaffray is the result of the company upgrading its
workstations, software and servers. The donated computers are modern,
Pentium-based PCs. The computers are available to nonprofit organizations
for a nominal fee that covers the cost of refurbishing and shipping. For
information about obtaining a computer from DRAGnet, call  612-378-9796,
e-mail info at dragnet.org or fax 612-753-1943.

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From lwinn at u.washington.edu  Thu Jan 21 15:20:12 1999
From: lwinn at u.washington.edu (L Winn)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:20:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Linux free software movement
In-Reply-To: <199901211922.LAA05842@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.05.9901211459050.96582-100000@dante08.u.washington.edu>


> 2.  How can *we*  build bridges with them?  Is there a natural fit:
> public software, public information, public communication?

Them?  Them is us!  You, me, and anyone who's interested in Linux,
downloads free software and uses it, writes software and releases it under
the GPL, or, writes documentation, HOW-TOs and works to spread the word.

Linux and the Free Software movement is building a better world through
anarchy.  Sounds like a joke, or a wishful thought, but it is, in fact,
the hard truth.

There is no well defined THEM.  And you can be a part of the LInux
movement and not be a "hacker".  There isn't any clear group to build
bridges to, execpt the group who hasn't heard of LInux, and has never
tried free software.

If you want to find a way to contribute to and spread Free Software,
I would suggest using SCN to get the word out.

Here are some resources that tell you more about Linux.  Because of its
anarchical organization, there are no definitvie sources for information,
software or news. The foloowing are some well trod paths, however.

	The Linux Journals- Linux Resources Page
	http://www.ssc.com/linux/
	
	The Puget Sound Linux User's Group
	http://sealinux.itsite.com/

	Slashdot:News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters
	http://slashdot.org/

	Linux Online
	http://www.linux.org/

	GNU and FSF
	http://www.gnu.org/home.html
	

Cheers,
Lisa Winn

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From douglas  Thu Jan 21 15:37:12 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:37:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Association For Community Networking
Message-ID: <199901212337.PAA03844@scn.org>

Greetings!

Amy Borgstrom, the president of AFCN, recently set out a personal
challenge for herself to recruit two new members by April 1st.  I'm
trying to at least match that...  { help me ! }

As many of you know there was a considerable void after NPTN, the
National Public Telecomputing Network folded -- there was no national
umbrella group for community networks.  Several of the pioneers of
community networking including Steve Cisler, Amy Borgstrom, Richard
Civille, Joan Durrance, and Steve Snow (among others) formed the
Association For Community Networking to take up the slack (others have
recently done the same in Europe; a Canadian association has existed
for years).  It's really just beginning and SCN is one of the community
network members (as opposed to individual members).

So far AFCN has received no (or almost no) funding and, like SCN,
relies almost entirely on volunteers.  Since it is young, however, what
happens in the short-run may turn out to be very important in the
long-run.  Currently several SCNers and other Seattle info-activists
are members BUT WE NEED MORE!!  We can benefit from them and they can
benefit from us.

Please consider joining AFCN!

"AFCN's mission is to improve the visibility and vitality of community
networking by building the capacity of people and organizations,
raising public awareness, identifying best practices, influencing
policy, and developing products and serives."

See http://www.afcn.net for more information.

Thanks!

-- Doug

PS.   Members get a quarterly newsletter, enrollment in AFCN
newsletter, discounts on conferences -- but most importantly (IMO) a
chance to become a stronger contributor and support of community
networks nationwide.  Student membership is $50; US membership is $75;
international $100; organizational $150.  Send checks to Association
For Community Networking, c/o Charlotte's Web, 119 East Seventh St.,
Charlotte, NC 28202.

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From kurt  Fri Jan 22 12:02:39 1999
From: kurt (Kurt Cockrum)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:02:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: was security, now mutating into a discourse on social relations
Message-ID: <199901222002.MAA19990@scn.org>

[bringing this onto the scn list at Barb's request]
Barb (bb140) said:
>I tend to agree with your thoughts on work/scn, including that Joel should
                    [ ^..mine --kurt ]
>be writing job descriptions.  But, do you agree we need more trained
>volunteers?  Who will train them if you and others don't regard that as
>part of your job at scn?

Yeah, I think we in hardware would all agree that training is part of
our job.  And it extends all the way from apprentice-level to root-level.
No argument there.  But RTFM takes care of 99% of that :)

>I am curious about this:
> 
>> > Then let's keep it simple.  The proper thing to say is "it's time for
>> you to move on".  The "have-not" has become a "have".  We have a
>> success story, but we seem to be regarding it as something destructive
>> or inimical to the interests of SCN.

Don't misinterpret me here.  I'm not suggesting that people go away
after they become net-literate.  I'm saying they know more than they
used to, and now the relationship between teacher and student has
changed, so that they are more like peers.  But not customers (perish
the concept!).

>This seems to imply to me that you regard SCN's mission as taking care of
>have-nots, until such time as they are successful, and then they must move
>on to be....somewhere with the other "haves"?  

Well, in a country where nobody can read, and somebody learns to read,
it counts as a success, whether they go on to use their reading skills
for their own benefit, or they decide to join the community of readers
that shows people how to read.  The literacy program in Cuba is one
example; people who learned to read often passed that skill on to others,
but not everybody did.  But the country as a whole gained enormously.
The more people know, the less ignorant they are about the things
they are dependent on, and the better off everybody is, IMO.

But take note here that the mission is to teach people, not to make
them happy or to provide conveniences to them, nor to treat them
as customers.  I think the analogy applies strongly to SCN.
Of course, this is, as usual, my opinion.

>I think this needs discussion and hope you will post this back on
>scn at scn.org.

Done.  Send flames to barb :)

>To wit:
>--is scn's mission to only take care of poor folks/organizations, they
>can't be part once they are successful?

Or if they become rich, they have to go away :) ?
Not before bequeathing us all their money :)

Seriously, I think that's the priority.  Empty bellies should get filled
before the hors d'oeuvres are passed out :)  But if you can score some
hors d'oeuvres out of the dumpster, well, pass `em around! :)  I'm not
fussy :)

As far as "take care of", I strongly disagree with the concept.
Our job is to teach people how to fish, not to bring them fish every
day.  Biiiiig difference, IMO.  I'm not the least bit interested in
fish delivery, frankly.

>Other issues relating to this:
>--is scn's mission to always do it the cheapest way possible, (shareware
>mentality) even when software is out of date?

Not by any means.  Various factors should be, and are considered.  But
whereever we have a choice between open-source and commercial, we
should IMO be biased toward the free software, for the simple reason
that we can inspect it ourselves and not have to take an outsider's
word for it the way we do with commercial software.  If we judge it
lacking, then that's the time to consider commercial alternatives.  But
I'm very strongly against commercial sw being considered first, just as
I'm against putting mission-critical stuff on a Windoze/NT machine.

Philosophically, I think there's a *nice* fit between free software,
produced by people with altruistic motives, being *used* by other
people doing other things for altruistic motives.  That feels so right
to me that I wonder that I have to explain it.  Ah, well.  I suppose
that religious folk feel the same way about their religion, although I
hate to taint myself with the religious label.

>                                               Who determines what areas
>of scn will be state of the art, and cash paid for it, and when it will
>boggle along in shareware?

That is what gets hammered out at meetings and mailing lists like this
one.  It's a community effort, and what you are doing (reading this
post) is part of the process.  And "boggling along"? see my above
paragraph.  The boggling I mostly see isn't "shareware boggling", it's
"commercial boggling".

"Shareware" isn't the same as open-source or free, BTW.  One doesn't
often see "shareware" in the unix world.  In the windows world
"shareware" is the term used for low-priced binary executables, often
of reduced functionality, chiefly designed to introduce the
fully-functional commercial application.  It's often called
"cripple-ware" because, like with tryout copies of Adobe Photoshop
which are "free", you can't do major functions like "saving".
Otherwise it's as opaque as a commercial application.  It's *only*
benefit is that it doesn't cost much $$, but you are still dependent on
the whims of the author, who is the only one who can see the innards of
the sw, and who controls the distribution.

Also, the term "free" refers to the freedom to copy the software, not
the price paid.  You can charge as much as you want for copies of the
software you wrote or acquired;  under licenses like the GNU Public
License (a typical open-software licensing arrangement), you are
essentially prohibited from imposing *restrictions* on copying.  So you
could charge $2,000,000 a copy for the sources, and if it's neato-keeno
enough, somebody will buy it (or write their own).  And it's unlikely
they'll be passing out *cheap* copies, unless you've offended them :)

Shareware doesn't have many of the nice properties of open-source sw.
Let's not confuse one with the other.

A low-budget operation like ours should not be devoting our precious
energy to fundraising to just to pass that money right along to vendors
who can then turn around and sell commercial software back to us to
help manage the fundraising and the licenses for the fundraising
software.  I don't know how I can convey any better the deep sense of
"what's wrong with this picture?" that I feel with such scenarios.

If you think carefully about it, you will see that a lot of this stuff
is really just variations on the old scam of "send $2 for money-saving
booklet," only jumped up to $10.  It's like an appointment with a
Day-Timer salesman, or responding to a spam for spamming software.  Can
you say "Internet Business"?  In other words, it ain't real.

>I admit that there is a new impetus going on, to open source some of the
>best software.  (ebase for donors is a good example of this new trend--he
>raised funds to develop software for small non-profits would couldn't
>afford donor databases systems, and his software is now state of the art
>because it has email merge on it).
>[...]

Well, I don't know about ebase or what constitutes "state of the art".
I certainly don't think the idea of adding "email merge" to a piece of
software qualifies as an "innovation" deserving intellectual property
protection (it fails the obviousness test, for one thing).  It might
be extremely useful, but that's something way different than innovation.

But for crucial stuff, somebody needs to look at the code, not just
take somebody's word for it.  Preferably a bunch of people should look
at the code, and try to gain consensus.  For a lot of free software,
that's already been done, like for Linux, or sendmail, or emacs, or...

Anybody who wants to can learn what's necessary to understand free code
(which may be a lot, more than what 1 person can do, such as the Linux
OS), and start browsing away.  That's not a perfect solution, because
it's almost impossible for one person to look at say, a million lines
of code, but it's a quantum jump from proprietary code that you can't
examine.  This is important, because in certain senses, this software
will evolve to form fundamental infrastructure for the societies of the
future.  This must *not* be magic, IMO.  I think there are anti-social
forces in society that would just love it if it were :(

One thing to remember is that the reason this sw is used is that it's
already been around for a long time, and there are very few bugs or
surprises (relatively speaking) compared to software that has a
relatively short life-cycle, or has a less dynamic way of evolving.
This is because 1000's of people have hammered on that code for years,
something no company can reasonably afford.  And most free software
contains licensing provisions which prevents companies from
appropriating modified versions to market without making the sources
available.

But bear in mind that this says nothing about the quality of the code,
which in either the commercial case or the free case, may be good or
bad.  What I'm saying is that the code, good or bad, goes thru
processes in the free model that are absent or greatly attenuated in
the commercial model.

The quality comes from zillions of people poring over the code.  The
individual activity of one person might not be all that productive, but
what emerges from protracted concurrent activity by lots of people is
something different entirely.  This is very close to the kinds of
order that can emerge from "chaotic" processes [ also very close to
metaphysics :) ].

In a certain sense, open-source software is self-repairing and
self-evolving, because it gets used to form the infrastructure for the
next generation of development, in sort of a "bootstrapping" process
(which, after all, is just what "life" does).

I think advocates of commercial transaction processing on SCN are
obligated to get out there and get informed on the subject, which might
mean coughing up the $$ and getting
	Garfinkel, Simson & Spafford, Gene
	Web Security & Commerce
	ISBN 1-56592-269-7 [$32.95, O'Reilly]
and *reading* it all the way thru.  Then discussions on the topic would
be more useful.

Another thing worth checking is
	Aalberts, Robert J. & Townsend, Anthony M. & Whitman, Michael E.
	The Threat of Long-Arm Jurisdiction to Electronic Commerce
	Communications of the ACM 41(Dec. 98)12:15-20
which ought to make any commerce advocate sit up and take notice.

Electronic commerce is an arena where one should not venture unarmed
and unready for combat, so to speak.  SCN can't afford to keep
high-priced junkyard dog lawyers on retainer, the way a full-fledged
commercial player can.

AFAIK if we are geared up in any way for any kind of potential legal
battles, they would be in the area of civil rights and
freedom-of-speech, modulo the pacifist sensibilities of the legal
help.  Legal action in that domain can have genuine worth, compared to
legal action in the electronic commerce domain, which is more like
Lebanon in the mid-80's, a great way to dissipate energy and do maximum
damage via isometric struggle.

Of course, if the powers-that-be in SCN, and the electronic commerce
advocates have taken this into account, and can get prepared to cope
with the problems and difficulties I've mentioned, and the ones in the
2 references above, why, then, go for it!  That isn't giving any kind
of blessing, that's throwing up my hands in resignation.
--kurt
  John has left the building.
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From douglas  Fri Jan 22 17:11:15 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:11:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: public domain photos, clip art, etc.
Message-ID: <199901230111.RAA20752@scn.org>


I'm looking around for web sites that specialize in providing
large assortments of images.  I believe there is one in Sweden.
I'd think that there were lots of these data archives around but
I haven't run across many.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

-- Doug

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From steve at advocate.net  Sat Jan 23 12:47:11 1999
From: steve at advocate.net (Steve)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:47:11 -0800
Subject: Usenet newsgroup
Message-ID: <199901232057.MAA09795@scn.org>

After months of bouncing around to different contacts, we finally
have a public usenet newsgroup for SCN -

seattle.freenet.scn

The control message to create the group was sent out today.  If 
you're dealing with an ISP, might need to send them a request to add 
the group.




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From bb156 at scn.org  Sun Jan 24 23:22:57 1999
From: bb156 at scn.org (bb156 at scn.org)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:22:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Usenet newsgroup
In-Reply-To: <199901232057.MAA09795@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990124231745.7063A-100000@scn>



Hi Steve,

How can we have "seattle.freenet.scn" added to _our_ SCN newsfeed? 

-Andrew

   ,_____,_____,    6 __      _                                 User: bb156
   T\  :.      .^\,_/_\_|_   /_|   _/_ _     )__/'_ _ '   _   Domain: scn.org  
   I ^T=====;=====T   /|    (  |/)(// (-((/ /  //(/(///)_)    Seattle, WA
      I           I _|_|                        _/_/          


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From steve at advocate.net  Mon Jan 25 08:32:58 1999
From: steve at advocate.net (Steve)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:32:58 -0800
Subject: Usenet newsgroup
Message-ID: <199901251643.IAA11439@scn.org>

Andrew wrote:
How can we have "seattle.freenet.scn" added to _our_ SCN newsfeed? 


I've been told that SCN is pretty backed up with similar IP requests, 
so a timetable is hard to come by.  Anybody else wanna take a shot at 
this?
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From douglas  Mon Jan 25 10:17:32 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:17:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "Stripmining Idealism"  
Message-ID: <199901251817.KAA12547@scn.org>


If you have any thoughts on this, let Steve know.  (Many on
this would probably like to know also!)

-- Doug

> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:30:42 -0800
> From: "cisler" <cisler at pobox.com>
> To: AFCNmembers <afcn-members at lists.colorado.edu>
> Cc: Communet <COMMUNET at list.uvm.edu>
> Subject: Burnout
> 
> People working and volunteering in community networks experience burn out,
> just as they do in other good causes where there are not a lot of
> work/monetary benefits.
> 
> One outfit had a sign posted in a work area, "Stripmining idealism since
> 1987."  Would anyone like to share any stories about this issue with me? If
> you have any solutions or ideas about how to alleviate this problem, I'd
> like to hear.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve Cisler
> 
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From kv9x at scn.org  Mon Jan 25 12:29:10 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:29:10 -0800
Subject: Privacy groups to announce boycott of Intel products
Message-ID: <001801be48a1$5decff20$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>

X-No-Archive: Yes

Privacy groups to announce boycott of Intel products

January 25, 1999

Web posted at: 3:02 a.m. EST (0802 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Privacy groups will announce a boycott Monday of all
products from Intel Corp. until the company agrees to disable new technology
in its upcoming line of Pentium III computer chips that helps identify
consumers across the Internet.

Privacy rights groups say personal identification numbers embedded in the
new chips could lead to an erosion of privacy, while Intel claims the ID
numbers will allow for more secure online transactions.

Intel said its technology also can be used to avoid piracy by preventing a
single copy of a software program from being installed on several machines.

"Not even the tamest privacy advocate has failed to condemn it," said Jason
Catlett, president of Junkbusters Inc. of Green Brook, New Jersey, which
lobbies on a range of high-tech issues.

It organized the boycott with the Washington-based Electronic Privacy
Information Center.

Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-Massachusetts), urged Intel on Friday to reconsider
its plans, "to better balance both commercial and privacy objectives."
Markey is the senior Democrat on the House consumer protection subcommittee
and active in Internet privacy issues.

Intel spokesman Chuck Mulloy said late Sunday that the company hadn't been
notified of the boycott. He said Intel has been in talks about its
technology for several weeks with Junkbusters, and previously had meetings
planned this week with both Catlett's group and the privacy information
center.

Mulloy said it would be "difficult to tell" the potential impact of any
boycott of Intel.

Developing user profiles
"That serial number can be linked in databases like your Social Security
number is used by credit bureaus and marketing companies," Catlett said. "It
allows a massive profile to be efficiently collected and sold."

Intel, the world's largest chipmaker with $26.2 billion in sales last year,
announced last week that the new Pentium III chip, to be sold within months,
will by default transmit its unique serial number internally and across the
Internet.

Consumers can turn the feature off, but it turns itself back on each time
the computer is restarted.

In addition to making about 85 percent of the world's computer processors,
Intel also manufactures memory chips plus hardware for computer networks,
communications and graphics.

Catlett called the Pentium III chips that already have been produced "toxic
hardware."

"They should destroy them," said Catlett, who spoke last year at a summit on
Internet privacy in Washington organized by the Commerce Department.

As part of their boycott, organizers will unveil a parody of the company's
ubiquitous "Intel Inside" logo. Theirs features the same familiar swirl but
with the words, "Big Brother Inside."

Tough law in Europe
Intel's announcement comes at an awkward time for the Clinton
administration.

David Aaron, undersecretary of state for commerce, was to begin negotiations
Monday in Europe -- the same day as the boycott announcement -- over a tough
new privacy law enacted by the 15-nation European Union last October.

"It couldn't have come at a worse time," Catlett said. "This new feature
from Intel is really throwing kerosene on the fire of the trans-Atlantic
privacy negotiations."

Aaron must assure Europeans that the United States has adequate privacy
protections or risk a prohibition against businesses in those 15 countries
from disclosing personal information about citizens there to U.S. companies.

Aaron warned Friday that such a ban would carry "a very adverse impact on
the operation of the economies on both sides of the Atlantic and could be a
very serious blow."

The Electronic Privacy Information Center said it will meet later in the
week with the Federal Trade Commission to discuss Intel's plans.

The FTC has criticized the online industry for its failure to protect
privacy rights, and the agency successfully pressed last year for a new law
that prohibits Web sites from collecting personal information from children
without parental permission.

Coincidentally, the FTC also is suing Intel for alleged antitrust
violations. The trial is set to begin March 9.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

(c) CNN


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From kv9x at scn.org  Tue Jan 26 18:07:37 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:07:37 -0800
Subject: "Big Brother Inside": Intel Yields To Pressure...
Message-ID: <002901be4999$cfed1e40$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>

X-No-Archive: Yes

Copyright ) 1999 to 7am News

Intel Yields To Pressure Over New Pentium Chips
12:10pm PST, 25 January 1999

Note: All links on this page will start a new browser window. To return to
this page you must close that window.

Threats of boycotts and concerns over privacy have forced Intel to make
concessions over the design of its new Pentium III CPU chip and its built-in
fingerprint mechanism.

In an announcement today, Intel has said it will now distribute free
software that disables the fingerprint facility and that once the currently
committed manufacturing runs are done, the next revision of the chip will
have the feature disabled by default.

On this revised processor, users could still choose to activate the
fingerprint using the supplied software if they wanted to but this would
require them to shutdown and restart their computers.

Intel's announcement has been greeted with mixed feelings by some of the
groups who had criticized the privacy implications of the chip's original
design. While acknowledging that it may represent a concession on the part
of Intel, they assert that the mere fact the capability is still available
could mean computer users will be forced to enable it in order to transact
business over the Net.

"This would be a Hobson's choice situation" said one. "You'd have the choice
of keeping your privacy or being able to buy products over the Net -- and
that's no choice at all."

In retaliation at Intel's decision to incorporate the fingerprint technology
into its chips, some critics have been planning to replace the "Intel
Inside" logo on their computers with a "Big Brother Inside" one.



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From jamesr at scn.org  Tue Jan 26 22:14:41 1999
From: jamesr at scn.org (James Russell)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:14:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Show me the Money:
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221219.23520A-100000@scn>

Hi All:
  	1/25/99

	In the past, I had believed that the mission of SCN was to provide
	internet service to the community.  Being a computer enthusiast,
	I was very excited about joining SCN and receiving an internet account.   In 1994, I was one of SCN's first customers.
	Though it took nearly 3 months to receive my account,  I was still
	enthusiastic.  Still believing in the mission of SCN, I decided to
	volunteer; and later in 1996 through 1997, I became a board member.
	My purpose was to assist SCN in serving the public better and faster.
	In my quest to make SCN more efficient, I volunteered to help with
	registration.  While doing this task, I noticed quite frequently that
	transactions were not recorded; checks and cash were misplaced or lost.
	When questioning the procedure for tracking transactions, those who
	collected the money did not respond to my question.
	Another concern was the speed and efficiency in setting up accounts.
	I was an advocate for on-line registration, but no one seemed to
	listen.
	My theory was that this procedure would enable customers to register
	immediately, at their convenience and at the same time, SCN would have
	record of their transactions.  With the previous registration system,
	there was a delay of up to 12 weeks, not to name other complications.
	It is my feeling that an on-line registration system could have been
	in place by the second year of SCN's existence.
	Another matter of concern was the treatment of volunteers.  In the
	past few year, we have had an excellent selection of volunteer
	committees.
	A committee that was really comes to mind, as far as excellence, was
	the fund-raising committee.  They were very competent, and these
	highly skilled volunteers drafted an exciting fund-raising proposal,
	presented it to the board to have it disappointingly dismissed.  After this discouragement, the committee disbanded.
	I have a disappointing volunteer experience that I would like to share.
	In November of 1995, KCTS-Channel 9 asked for volunteers to assist
	with a computer project at the Rainier Branch of the Seattle Public
	Library.
	I volunteered on behalf of SCN, I was not compensated, but some staff were.  I would later discover that staff who did not work at this event had also been compensated.  This act is questionable as SCN received money for the event!
	As I have listed above, I have many concerns about the mission and
	ethics of SCN and I would like the following concerns addressed:
	The need for an audit
	Evaluation of the quality of SCN services;
	quality registration system
	Evaluation of the treatment of volunteers
	Evaluation of customer service
	When I was a board member, I asked for an audit, and it was not
	received.   I am now insisting on an audit.  If SCN does not comply,
	this matter will go to a higher authority!

	Sincerely,
	    
	James L. Russell  
	jamesr at scn.org


 * See you @ http://www.scn.org/~jamesr/ *  

jamesr at scn.org               scn.org=Seattle community network

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From jamesr at scn.org  Tue Jan 26 22:17:29 1999
From: jamesr at scn.org (James Russell)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:17:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "Bylaws Paragraph 3.7" Show me the Money! (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221542.23520B-100000@scn>



 * See you @ http://www.scn.org/~jamesr/ *  

jamesr at scn.org               scn.org=Seattle community network

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Russell <jamesr at scn.org>
To: scna-board at scn.org, James Russell <jamesr at scn.org>, tgn at hcmp.com,
    tgm at hcmp.com
Subject: "Bylaws Paragraph 3.7" Show me the Money!




August 15, 1997


Hillis Clark Martin & Peterson, P.S.
500 Galland Building
1221 Second Avenue
Seattle, WA 98101-2925

Attn: Mr. Tom Melling

I am a board member of the Seattle Commununity Network Association(SCNA).

I sent the following electronic message to the SCNA board because I was never
able to get information about SCNA funds when I asked at the regular board 
meetings.

"To All Board Members. I asked for accounting information at two or three
board meetings. The board has never seen a report of what money was collected
from the public and how it was spent. Paragraph 3.7 of the SCNA bylaws says 
that a member can get a copy of a review of all funds for the last preceding
fiscal year prepared by an independent certified public accountant. I am 
asking for that information. This is my last act as a board member of SCNA.
jamesr at scn.org"


Thank you.



James Russell
450 Monroe Ave. N.E. #211
Renton, WA 98056
425-235-5991

Again, Thank you!


PGP = Pretty Good Privacy    Coming Soon.
jamesr at scn.org               scn.org=Seattle community network


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From jamesr at scn.org  Tue Jan 26 22:19:12 1999
From: jamesr at scn.org (James Russell)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:19:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "Bylaws Paragraph 3.7" Show me the Money! (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221748.23520C-100000@scn>














 * See you @ http://www.scn.org/~jamesr/ *  

jamesr at scn.org               scn.org=Seattle community network

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Russell <jamesr at scn.org>
To: scna-board at scn.org, James Russell <jamesr at scn.org>, tgn at hcmp.com,
    tgm at hcmp.com
Subject: "Bylaws Paragraph 3.7" Show me the Money!




August 15, 1997


Hillis Clark Martin & Peterson, P.S.
500 Galland Building
1221 Second Avenue
Seattle, WA 98101-2925

Attn: Mr. Tom Melling

I am a board member of the Seattle Commununity Network Association(SCNA).

I sent the following electronic message to the SCNA board because I was never
able to get information about SCNA funds when I asked at the regular board 
meetings.

"To All Board Members. I asked for accounting information at two or three
board meetings. The board has never seen a report of what money was collected
from the public and how it was spent. Paragraph 3.7 of the SCNA bylaws says 
that a member can get a copy of a review of all funds for the last preceding
fiscal year prepared by an independent certified public accountant. I am 
asking for that information. This is my last act as a board member of SCNA.
jamesr at scn.org"


Thank you.



James Russell
450 Monroe Ave. N.E. #211
Renton, WA 98056
425-235-5991

Again, Thank you!


PGP = Pretty Good Privacy    Coming Soon.
jamesr at scn.org               scn.org=Seattle community network


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From steve at advocate.net  Tue Jan 26 23:22:59 1999
From: steve at advocate.net (Steve)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:22:59 -0800
Subject: Unlimited access?
Message-ID: <199901270733.XAA17278@scn.org>

x-no-archive: yes



Parsing the Promise of 'Unlimited' Access

Matt Richtel
NY Times 1/27/99


The standard deal offered by many Internet service providers promises
"unlimited access" to the Net for $19.95 a month. It's an alluring
sales pitch, with one catch: when subscribers seek to take full
advantage of the deal, they may find themselves logged off instead. 

It turns out that many ISPs, including some of the nations largest
providers, discourage users from maintaining a continuous connection
to the Net, or from spending several hundred hours a month online.
Violators can receive warnings, have their session disconnected, or
be terminated from a service altogether. 

Some consumers and consumer advocacy groups contend the ISPs'
advertising policies are misleading and inconsistent, but the ISPs
disagree. They say they do indeed offer unlimited access -- as long as
subscribers are actively using their connection, and not remaining
idly logged on. 

Still, some ISPs acknowledge they have struggled with the widespread
and seemingly accepted use of the marketing term "unlimited," saying
it puts them in an awkward position. 

"It's like with President Clinton," said Steve Dougherty, director of
Internet operations for EarthLink Network Inc., a San Diego-based ISP.
"It depends on how you define 'access.'" 

EarthLink, which has more than 1 million users, specifically notes on
its Web site that the company offers unlimited access. Dougherty said
access is indeed unlimited, but there are exceptions -- exceptions
that are characteristic of other ISPs. According to the company's
terms of service agreement, subscribers are not permitted to use the
service on a "standby or inactive basis." 

In other words, a subscriber cannot simply log on, then leave the
connection open while not making any active use of it. The policies
of ISPs vary, but, generally the companies employ software to inform
them when a subscriber is continuously logged on for an extended
period, say 10 hours a day. If an ISP detects an idle connection, it
will automatically log off the client, or send a warning. 

Some ISPs periodically send messages asking if a subscriber is still
using a connection. America Online for example, checks in with users
every 10 minutes and, if it gets no response, logs off the account,
said Wendy Goldberg, a company spokeswoman. Generally, ISPs wait 30
to 45 minutes without activity to log off an account, said Todd
Erickson, managing editor of Boardwatch Magazine, an industry trade
publication. 

Some Internet users try to circumvent this policy by using software
that implies there is ongoing activity -- as if the individual were
actively surfing the Net or sending e-mail. Other software programs
automatically dial in to the ISP as soon as the connection has ended.
Both types of programs are prohibited by EarthLink, and also commonly
by other ISPs. 

In addition, many ISPs do not permit subscribers to use their
accounts to host Web servers, the type of computer that typically
hosts a Web site, because the Internet connection must be maintained
continuously. 

Dougherty said EarthLink believes its plan can properly be defined as
unlimited, when the term is meant to define access by a person who is
actively using the Internet. If people want a connection to use for a
Web server or e-commerce business, he said, they should invest in a
dedicated access line. 

Yuric Hannart, a manager at Netcom Online Communication Services, an
ISP in San Jose, echoed a common theme in noting that the problem
arises in a tiny fraction of subscribers -- although those
subscribers account for a significant portion of the service's use.
He said that 3 percent of Netcom's subscribers account for 30 percent
of the total time spent online by Netcom users. Hannart said the
company only terminates a particular individual's connection when the
pool of modems subscribers dial into becomes so overloaded that no
one else can log on. 

Ed Hansen, spokesman for Mindspring Enterprises Inc., an
Atlanta-based ISP, said the company stands by its policy of offering
unlimited access for $19.95 a month. However, Hansen said Mindspring
begins to monitor an account when a subscriber logs "somewhere
between 150 and 300" hours per month, and may terminate a user's
connection if they use software to keep an otherwise inactive account
connected. 

"We have unlimited access," he said. "However, we have other terms of
service." 

Some consumer advocates contend the distinction made by Hansen and
others is a specious one. Charles Langley, a consumer advocate for the
Utility Consumers' Action Network based in San Diego, said the ISPs
are using misleading advertising tactics. "They should qualify it. They
should call it virtually unlimited," he said. "It's sort of like 'sort
of pregnant.'" 

At the same time, Langley conceded that subscribers who are using
their dial-up connections to host Web servers are probably taking
advantage of the system and should obtain a dedicated line to the
Internet instead. 

Not all Internet users think these policies is fair. Mike Swickey, a
resident of Oklahoma City, canceled his EarthLink account a month ago
after he said he received three warnings last year regarding his use
of the service. He said he and his wife have been known to spend 16
hours a day logged on tending to a freelance Web design business. He
said they are not actively surfing the Web or hosting a Web server,
but are waiting for e-mail that is pertinent to the business. 

"I'm actively using the service, but they insist I'm not because I'm
not surfing the Web," Swickey said. 

"They reel you in; you go to their Web site and you see the big
starburst with 'unlimited' in the middle," he said, speaking
generally of ISPs. "There shouldn't be any debate about what that
word means." 

EarthLink contends that it readily lives up to the unlimited moniker
when the connection is being used actively. One time, Dougherty said,
EarthLink found out a woman was using the Internet for 17 hours a
day. They initially warned her the time was excessive, but it turned
out she was a paraplegic who used her connection to stay in touch
with the world. EarthLink deemed the use to be appropriate. 

Some ISPs contend that it is consumers who are being unfair. Greg
Ryan, president of Exec-PC, the dominant ISP in Wisconsin, with
85,000 customers, said the most egregious users are effectively
running servers out of their homes, and keeping connections
established around the clock.

"They're happy to take advantage of what is essentially a loophole in
the system," he said. "We're not going to let them take advantage of
that anymore." 

Ryan said that Exec-PC is among the ISPs considering creating a
tiered pricing system to charge heavy users a higher access rate.
Exec-PC avoids calling its service "unlimited," Ryan said, favoring
the label "no set time limits" to stave off potential lawsuits. 

Meanwhile, Exec-PC is not alone in considering adding a tiered
pricing structure. AT&T WorldNet offers 150 hours of access for
$19.95 a month, while IBM offers 100 hours a month for the same
price. Each charges a fee for additional hours subscribers are logged
on. 

But AT&T, which introduced the 150-hour plan early last year, found
that consumers still wanted an "unlimited" plan. So the company
introduced one in December, priced at $21.95 a month. 

The pricing situation remains very fluid, said Drew Ianni, an analyst
with Jupiter Communications, an Internet research firm. Ianni said
competition may dictate that companies need to offer unlimited access
for $19.95 or even lower, particularly if some of the ongoing
experiments in free, advertiser-supported Internet access pan out. 

The situation remains somewhat awkward for ISPs. The president of one
small ISP in San Jose, who asked to remain anonymous, said the
definition of "unlimited" is "something ISPs don't want to talk about
with the lights on." 

"They don't want to talk about it," he said, "because it's really not
unlimited." 

Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company 






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From kv9x at scn.org  Wed Jan 27 11:00:58 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:00:58 -0800
Subject: Sun on Privacy: 'Get Over It'
Message-ID: <000301be4a27$605de9e0$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>

X-No-Archive: Yes

Sun on Privacy: 'Get Over It'
by Polly Sprenger

12:00 p.m.  26.Jan.99.PST
The chief executive officer of Sun Microsystems said Monday that consumer
privacy issues are a "red herring."
"You have zero privacy anyway," Scott McNealy told a group of reporters and
analysts Monday night at an event to launch his company's new Jini
technology.

"Get over it."

McNealy's comments came only hours after competitor Intel (INTC) reversed
course under pressure and disabled identification features in its
forthcoming Pentium III chip.

Jodie Bernstein, director of the Bureau of Consumer Protection at the
Federal Trade Commission, said that McNealy's remarks were out of line.

"Millions of American consumers tell us that privacy is a grave concern to
them when they are thinking about shopping online," Bernstein said.

Sun Microsystems is a member of the Online Privacy Alliance, an industry
coalition that seeks to head off government regulation of online consumer
privacy in favor of an industry self-regulation approach.

"It is a conundrum, because I know that [Sun is] a member of the Online
Privacy Alliance, and they have spoken positively about responding to
consumer needs," Bernstein said. "This sounds very different than what we
have generally been hearing from members of the alliance."

Privacy watchdogs echoed Bernstein's remarks.

"I'm astonished by Scott's remarks," said Jason Catlett, CEO of Junkbusters,
a company that makes privacy software. "I wonder if he heard what Intel
decided yesterday? Intel obviously decided that privacy is such a hot spot
that they changed plans they've had for months in a matter of hours."

Catlett said the comments are even more surprising in light of the fact that
the undersecretary of commerce is currently in Europe to demonstrate to
foreign governments that American companies are committed to security and
privacy.

"David Aaron is in Europe now saying the United States has adequate privacy
protection the same day the chief executive of one of the leading computer
companies stands up and says 'you have no privacy,'" Catlett said.

"It's tantamount to a declaration of war."

McNealy made the remarks in response to a question about what privacy
safeguards Sun (SUNW) would be considering for Jini. The technology is
designed to allow various consumer devices to communicate and share
processing resources with one another.

"I think Scott's comments were completely irresponsible and that Sun and
Intel and many of these leaders are creating public policy every time they
make a product decision," said Lori Fena, chairman of the board of the
Electronic Frontier Foundation.

For consumers, McNealy's comments raised questions about Sun's commitment to
privacy.

"One might hope that industry leaders such as McNealy would propose
solutions to enhance citizen privacy rather than just telling them to 'get
over it,'" said Linda Walsh, a consumer concerned about electronic privacy.

"He may have no privacy because of his status as CEO. He shouldn't assume
his reality is everyone else's," Walsh said.

In December, a New Hampshire consultant alleged that Sun violated its online
privacy agreement and redistributed his personal information against his
wishes.

Sun representatives could not be reached for comment.

Copyright ) 1994-99 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.

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From kurt  Wed Jan 27 11:22:33 1999
From: kurt (Kurt Cockrum)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:22:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Show me the Money
Message-ID: <199901271922.LAA21214@scn.org>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221219.23520A-100000 at scn>

James said:
>[...]
>	Another matter of concern was the treatment of volunteers.  In the
>	past few year, we have had an excellent selection of volunteer
>	committees.
>	A committee that was really comes to mind, as far as excellence, was
>	the fund-raising committee.  They were very competent, and these
>	highly skilled volunteers drafted an exciting fund-raising proposal,
>	presented it to the board to have it disappointingly dismissed.  After this discouragement, the committee disbanded.
>[...]

I don't know why this spammish-looking thing was cc'ed to hardware and
me, but here's what *my* money (only 2 copper-plated zinc slugs) looks
like:

I've heard 2nd-hand rumors of this before, over the years.  The
overwhelming impression I've gotten was that they were a bunch of
high-flying thin-skinned prima-donnas who weren't willing to
participate in the essentially iterative fine-tuning process, but
instead flounced off in a high dudgeon after the first round, when
their proposal didn't get the reception they were hoping for.  This
makes me think they weren't really interested in the proposal per se,
but were fishing for kudos and strokes, and left when it became
apparent this wasn't immediately forthcoming, i. e. they were really
spoiled brats.  In turn, this makes me think that their departure
might've really been a Good Thing.  But maybe that's just me
Being Negative(TM) :) .

If there were/are really any merits to the proposal, well, maybe it
could be flown by the SCNA BOD once more.  After all, there's a whole
new set of incumbents, right?  Of course, somebody kept a copy of the
content, right? :)

James' .sig caught my eye:
>[...]
>PGP = Pretty Good Privacy    Coming Soon.
>jamesr at scn.org               scn.org=Seattle community network

I sure hope you've read the PGP FAQ's on the topic of storing private
keys on multi-user computers.  If you are serious about privacy and
security, you must realize there's NO WAY a private key is going to
STAY private on a public-access multi-user computer.  There doesn't
seem to be a pgp executable in the usual scn PATHs, so I assume that
hasn't yet been done.  Good.

Keep the private key on YOUR MACHINE ONLY.  Actually, it should be kept
on a floppy, not ON the machine.  And use a "wipe" program after using
PGP.  The PGP docs tell how to do this.  Of course, only you know how
much security you need.  But it's imperative that YOU do all your
homework, if you want to get the most out of PGP.  Otherwise, you may
as well use rot13.  It's best if you build from source rather than run
pre-packaged executables.  And follow the instructions to ensure that
you have an authentic copy of PGP and not just an unofficial CALEA
implementation :) .

Ordinarily I wouldn't say so much about this, but things seem to be
getting so demand-driven these days that it seems nearly obligatory,
sorry :( .
--kurt
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From jw4 at scn.org  Wed Jan 27 15:13:54 1999
From: jw4 at scn.org (Joel Ware IV)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:13:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: REPLY Re: Show me the Money:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221219.23520A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990127145935.29095A-100000@scn>

Dear James,
RE: Your concern with treatment of volunteers -- this is being worked!

  I am pleased to tell you that we now have an active HR committee to
focus on better volunteer management, and that we are working on job
descriptions, recognition, recruitment, and many other items, which
include new Guidelines (Code of Conduct) just approved the the Board.

  Have a look at: http://www.scn.org/volunteers/  and PLEASE follow-up
to scn.general or scn.volunteers.general with your comments.
(NOT via EMAIL -- PLEASE).

Joel Ware, IV   Volunteer Coordinator   xx015 at scn.org

---------------------------------------


On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, James Russell wrote:

> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:14:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: James Russell <jamesr at scn.org>
> To: letters -- aki Namioka <aki at halcyon.com>, Al Boss <alboss at scn.org>,
... (deleted)
> Subject: Show me the Money:
> 
> Hi All:
>   	1/25/99
> 
> 	In the past, I had believed that the mission of SCN was to provide
...
> 	As I have listed above, I have many concerns about the mission and
> 	ethics of SCN and I would like the following concerns addressed:
...
> 	Evaluation of the treatment of volunteers
...

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From be718 at scn.org  Thu Jan 28 00:23:39 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:23:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Show me the Money
In-Reply-To: <199901271922.LAA21214@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990128002138.2507B-100000@scn>

Kurt,

I was glad to see your statement about excessive thin-skinned people.  I
wish you'd made this comment a couple of months ago.....

About James' proposal being just a thin-skinned reaction, I don't agree.
An audit is required.  That is not a "skin" issue.

Later,

Rich

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Kurt Cockrum wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221219.23520A-100000 at scn>
> 
> James said:
> >[...]
> >	Another matter of concern was the treatment of volunteers.  In the
> >	past few year, we have had an excellent selection of volunteer
> >	committees.
> >	A committee that was really comes to mind, as far as excellence, was
> >	the fund-raising committee.  They were very competent, and these
> >	highly skilled volunteers drafted an exciting fund-raising proposal,
> >	presented it to the board to have it disappointingly dismissed.  After this discouragement, the committee disbanded.
> >[...]
> 
> I don't know why this spammish-looking thing was cc'ed to hardware and
> me, but here's what *my* money (only 2 copper-plated zinc slugs) looks
> like:
> 
> I've heard 2nd-hand rumors of this before, over the years.  The
> overwhelming impression I've gotten was that they were a bunch of
> high-flying thin-skinned prima-donnas who weren't willing to
> participate in the essentially iterative fine-tuning process, but
> instead flounced off in a high dudgeon after the first round, when
> their proposal didn't get the reception they were hoping for.  This
> makes me think they weren't really interested in the proposal per se,
> but were fishing for kudos and strokes, and left when it became
> apparent this wasn't immediately forthcoming, i. e. they were really
> spoiled brats.  In turn, this makes me think that their departure
> might've really been a Good Thing.  But maybe that's just me
> Being Negative(TM) :) .
> 
> If there were/are really any merits to the proposal, well, maybe it
> could be flown by the SCNA BOD once more.  After all, there's a whole
> new set of incumbents, right?  Of course, somebody kept a copy of the
> content, right? :)
> 
> James' .sig caught my eye:
> >[...]
> >PGP = Pretty Good Privacy    Coming Soon.
> >jamesr at scn.org               scn.org=Seattle community network
> 
> I sure hope you've read the PGP FAQ's on the topic of storing private
> keys on multi-user computers.  If you are serious about privacy and
> security, you must realize there's NO WAY a private key is going to
> STAY private on a public-access multi-user computer.  There doesn't
> seem to be a pgp executable in the usual scn PATHs, so I assume that
> hasn't yet been done.  Good.
> 
> Keep the private key on YOUR MACHINE ONLY.  Actually, it should be kept
> on a floppy, not ON the machine.  And use a "wipe" program after using
> PGP.  The PGP docs tell how to do this.  Of course, only you know how
> much security you need.  But it's imperative that YOU do all your
> homework, if you want to get the most out of PGP.  Otherwise, you may
> as well use rot13.  It's best if you build from source rather than run
> pre-packaged executables.  And follow the instructions to ensure that
> you have an authentic copy of PGP and not just an unofficial CALEA
> implementation :) .
> 
> Ordinarily I wouldn't say so much about this, but things seem to be
> getting so demand-driven these days that it seems nearly obligatory,
> sorry :( .
> --kurt
> 

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From be718 at scn.org  Thu Jan 28 00:28:05 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 00:28:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: REPLY Re: Show me the Money:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990127145935.29095A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990128002440.2507C-100000@scn>


James,

You just got co-opted by the opposite side.  Joel is still trying to
legitimize board revenge because I called him a creep.

You might clarify the volunteer treatment you had in mind to see if it
relates to the censorship Joel has in mind.

Rich
______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Joel Ware IV wrote:

> Dear James,
> RE: Your concern with treatment of volunteers -- this is being worked!
> 
>   I am pleased to tell you that we now have an active HR committee to
> focus on better volunteer management, and that we are working on job
> descriptions, recognition, recruitment, and many other items, which
> include new Guidelines (Code of Conduct) just approved the the Board.
> 
>   Have a look at: http://www.scn.org/volunteers/  and PLEASE follow-up
> to scn.general or scn.volunteers.general with your comments.
> (NOT via EMAIL -- PLEASE).
> 
> Joel Ware, IV   Volunteer Coordinator   xx015 at scn.org
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, James Russell wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:14:41 -0800 (PST)
> > From: James Russell <jamesr at scn.org>
> > To: letters -- aki Namioka <aki at halcyon.com>, Al Boss <alboss at scn.org>,
> ... (deleted)
> > Subject: Show me the Money:
> > 
> > Hi All:
> >   	1/25/99
> > 
> > 	In the past, I had believed that the mission of SCN was to provide
> ...
> > 	As I have listed above, I have many concerns about the mission and
> > 	ethics of SCN and I would like the following concerns addressed:
> ...
> > 	Evaluation of the treatment of volunteers
> ...
> 
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From gtruzzi at scn.org  Thu Jan 28 09:32:45 1999
From: gtruzzi at scn.org (Gianni Truzzi)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:32:45 -0800
Subject: Show me the Money:
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221219.23520A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <36B09F3D.215BAF92@scn.org>

Dear James,

I hope our conversation at the General Meeting last night helped to bring you up to date on things. I realize that your 1996-97 tenure on the SCNA board was a difficult and frustrating experience. The difficulties of that time were what led me
to run for a board seat. Your grievances are completely valid. But they do not accurately reflect the current state of affairs.

Since that time, there have been a number of improvements, which I hope I was able to make you better aware of last night. The financial information for 1997 has been online for almost a year (since February, 1998). The URL is:

    http://www.scn.org/scna/finances/index.html

This public reporting actually exceeds our requirements under the bylaws. Normally, our public report is the Form 990 that we file with the IRS, and those can be given on request. These detailed reports are normally distributed only to the
board, although board meetings are public. The board has been getting more frequent reports from our Treasurer, working toward a regular quarterly report. Our reports for 1998 are expected shortly, well in advance of our required deadline of
April. We have also drafted a 1999 budget of functional expenses, and are completing that budget process.

Your assertion that the bylaws require an "audit" are not technically correct. We have investigated this, and an audit is a highly involved process that is extremely costly and, according to the advice of a CPA, not warranted for an
organization of our size. What the bylaws do require (as you pointed out), is that our statements be prepared by an independent CPA. We have been investigating this, too, although so far our advice is that this would also be cost-prohibitive
and not necessary.

But the efforts we have already made, and will continue to make, are (I hope you will agree) substantial progress. They are a direct product of your fine effort at making us more aware of our failures in compliance.

As I also told you last night, we are engaging the services of a management company to maintain our complete database of registrations and donations, to process incoming registration forms and process, deposit and acknowledge all donations.
This is expected to address many of the issues you have raised about the poor response time of registrations, and to better track all of our incoming funds. It will also put in place some much-needed financial controls, following our friendly
CPA's advice.

This will also have the vital atribute of freeing up the time of both our at-large volunteers and our volunteer board members to concentrate on other things, like program development, system administration and organization-building. We are
also working to better communicate with our volunteers, and build better systems for coordinating and recognizing them.

As regards the 1995 event, it is not a bit unusual or the least bit unethical for a non-profit to have a mixed of paid staff and volunteers. The Pacific Science Center, for example, works that way all the time, as do most 501(c)(3)
organizations. As it happens, that is the *only* occassion that anyone has ever paid to do anything for SCN, and that was done under the governance of CPSR, with grant funds given for that purpose. SCNA currently operates completely with
volunteers, including all of the board members. This is likely to change within the next couple of years, so that we can address many of the resource issues you yourself have raised.

But currently, SCNA does not operate on a lot of money. We take in less than $30,000 a year, of which nearly 2/3 goes to pay for phone lines. We have a rainy-day fund of between $25,000 and $30,000. That does not suggest that there has been
any fraud or abuse. Our past failures to distribute financial information have been due to the limitations of  our volunteer officers and board members, not any ethical lapses. We can consider ourselves very lucky.

Your participation in SCNA, both as a volunteer and a board member, has been appreciated. I hope you know that you have made a significant difference.

-- Gianni Truzzi
President, Seattle Community Network Association.




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From randy at scn.org  Thu Jan 28 13:03:01 1999
From: randy at scn.org (Randy Groves)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:03:01 -0800
Subject: Show me the Money:
In-Reply-To: <36B09F3D.215BAF92@scn.org>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990126221219.23520A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <9901282100.AA15126@redwood.rt.cs.boeing.com>

Folks - please excuse the reply to the collected list - I hope that people
will be restrained in their use of reply - but some things have been said
that need a response.

Actually - I would like to commend Gianni on the evenhandedness, accuracy,
and straight-to-the-point character of his previous response.

Gianni is correct.  We have had the 1997 financial reports available on the
SCNA web since early 1998.  The 1998 reports are now there.  I have
re-arranged things a little as well.  The 1998 990 will be prepared in the
next month (although legally we have until May 15th).  The 1997 990 is
available from me:

Randy Groves
21240 NE 12th
Redmond, WA  98053

I don't know about you, but I think that we ARE doing better.  It may take
a couple of months to become obvious, but I feel better about SCNA than I
have in quite some time.

-randy

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From be718 at scn.org  Thu Jan 28 18:58:27 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:58:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Show me the Money:
In-Reply-To: <36B09F3D.215BAF92@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990128184836.22272E-100000@scn>


Gianni replied in a well thought-out manner and I applaud his reasoned
response to James' message.

The kernal of his reply, however, shows that we are still short of the
goal.  Quoting from Gianni:
______________________________________________________________________

What the bylaws do require (as you pointed out), is that our statements be
prepared by an independent CPA. We have been investigating this, too,
although so far our advice is that this would also be cost-prohibitive >
and not necessary. 
______________
End quote.

Gianni is being forthright enought to admit that we are not complying with
the bylaw requirement, because we deem it too expensive.  That is a
difficult position to be in, but I'm pleased Gianni is being open about
it.


Gianni then went on and mentioned the management service we've sought. I
assume he is saying that the management service will provide at least a
spreadsheet-style accounting of income and specific expenditures (at no
additional charge?).  That might go a long way toward providing the
information James requested, but he would have to clarify that.

Gianni's assertion that there has been no abuse of funds is probably
correct.  But the purpose of accounting is not just to catch abuse, but to
prevent (or at least diagnose) accidental mis-handling of funds.

I agree that SCN has been doing well with its money generally.
Additionally, I am glad we have James around to press us to be
professional.
> 
Later,

Rich

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From be718 at scn.org  Thu Jan 28 19:02:50 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:02:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Show me the Money:
In-Reply-To: <9901282100.AA15126@redwood.rt.cs.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990128190221.22272G-100000@scn>


Oh, Randy, you're just saying that because it's true .... (-:

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

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From bb140 at scn.org  Thu Jan 28 23:28:57 1999
From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:28:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Communication re: scn
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990128230642.18389C-100000@scn>

TO Scn Board:
When I go to work, I look in my box and get all my mail and memos and
organizational stuff to read and, everything.  

When I "come" to work at SCN, this is what I would have to do if I were to
have the same:
--if I have anything to say about volunteers, discussions, see memos, etc,
I have to go to a newsgroup or forum, I forget what. So don't. (RE:
Joels'recent reply to James, i.e. don't use the email lists.)
--if I want to see the monthly financial report, I have to come to the
Board meeting. (Re: Aki, at this last scna meeting.)
--if I want to read the Board minutes, I have to e mail to Sharma to get
her to write them and post them somewhere. (Re: Gianni? can't remember who
I asked, at meeting.)
--when the Board minutes are posted, they are on the web site, I have to
tour it extensively to remember where.  Don't do it.
--when I get an e mail that says where something is, but it's not added to
the email or attached, I save it in my "todo" folder and never look at it
again. 

I am sure there are many others like me.  Basically, if I don't get it on
my desk, which is my email box, I don't receive it. I have to do a lot of
extra work to find it.  The way I feel about this is, you are asking me to
stand up, leave my desk, go find a bulletin board three floors away, and
then maybe it won't be there.  I have to knock on the door of someone I
don't know well, ask them for it, and when they say, hasn't been done yet,
wait, until the next time I want it and have to ask.

Does anyone have any really strong disposition on having all the
above-mentioned things go onto a mail list?  You can either put them on
all the scn lists or you can set up one, for folks who really want
organizational reports.

Please.  You will eliminate lots of raunchy behavior from the masses if
you give us reports in an email list.

If you don't want to respond individually, kindly put this as an item on
your next Board or Excomm agenda.

Barb


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From aki at halcyon.com  Fri Jan 29 08:23:34 1999
From: aki at halcyon.com (Aki Namioka)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Communication re: scn
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990128230642.18389C-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.GUL.4.05.9901290818330.28058-100000@chinook.halcyon.com>

Barbara - I agree that getting information in little bits and pieces is
frustrating.  I think we have made progress in getting stuff up on the
web.  Randy and Gianni just pointed out that 1997 financials are already
up there.  Sharma has been posting the minutes when they are ready to
distribute. 

Sending out mass mailings to people is very difficult on our system and we
have done it less then 5 times since SCN has started because of its
impact.  I think maintaining our website is the best solution and --
people can pull the information if they want it.

- Aki

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From bb140 at scn.org  Fri Jan 29 10:12:16 1999
From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:12:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Communication re: scn
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GUL.4.05.9901290818330.28058-100000@chinook.halcyon.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990129100607.25805C-100000@scn>

Hi Aki,
I appreciate the better flow of docs.  But I wasn't asking for a global
mail out to all users.  I was asking that all org records get put on one
majordomo list, like, "org at scn.org," and then put wherever else for public
record.  

My whole point was only partly acess to info.  My major point was, access
to info in the manner I am used to, that makes keeping up with scn stuff
very easy for me and others.  My question was: does anyone have any big
problems with doing this?  and if so, please discuss them at the next
Board meeting, because I want this request entered to the Board to decide.

The agenda item could be stated:
Member user has requested that all major organizational docuements be
placed on a majordomo listserv, that member users can subsribe to to
receive this informaiton in a timely and conveneient manner.
Discussion/vote.

 Thanks, Barb


On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Aki Namioka wrote:

> Barbara - I agree that getting information in little bits and pieces is
> frustrating.  I think we have made progress in getting stuff up on the
> web.  Randy and Gianni just pointed out that 1997 financials are already
> up there.  Sharma has been posting the minutes when they are ready to
> distribute. 
> 
> Sending out mass mailings to people is very difficult on our system and we
> have done it less then 5 times since SCN has started because of its
> impact.  I think maintaining our website is the best solution and --
> people can pull the information if they want it.
> 
> - Aki
> 
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From kv9x at scn.org  Fri Jan 29 12:37:00 1999
From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:37:00 -0800
Subject: The odyssey of Open Source software
Message-ID: <002901be4bc7$1ff249e0$0b8795cf@metals.arilabs.com>

X-No-Archive: Yes

Friday, January 29, 1999 Published at 16:35 GMT

Sci/Tech

The odyssey of Open Source software

Eric Raymond has Microsoft in his sights

By Internet Correspondent Chris Nuttall
It was a hot ticket on a cool subject presented by a lightning conductor of
the Open Source movement.
Eric Raymond's Winter Tour is now officially over but the struggle to free
program code all over the world goes on.

Eric Raymond on Open Source

The evangelising American's Open Source gospel "The Cathedral and the
Bazaar" persuaded Netscape to abandon secrecy and proprietary ways and
release its browser code on the Net a year ago. He believes the geek will
inherit the earth and not Microsoft.

He took to the road in January to spread the word, his two-week tour taking
in speaking engagements in Michigan, Oregon, California and Indiana, then
onto London and Durham in the UK and finally Denmark and Sweden, where he
addressed the world's biggest Linux users' group.

The hackers' revenge

On a visit to the Greenwich Royal Observatory to see the beginning and end
of world time, Eric told BBC News Online that the clock had turned full
circle for the communities of clever programmers. He calls them "hackers",
but in the true sense of the word as defined in his book, The New Hacker's
Dictionary.

Revenge of the hackers

"What's happening now is the hackers' revenge. That culture is coming back
around and this time we are going to win," he said.

The first time dates back to the development of the Personal Computer
Operating System (OS) and how Windows won through. The hackers' favourite
OS, Unix, disintegrated into many different versions with their own
proprietary features. Windows and its predecessor, MS-DOS, was equally
proprietary but was marketed successfully as the best single solution for
business.

Now the battle between the expensive proprietary software of companies such
as Microsoft and freely-distributed Open Source is raging on the Internet.

"Microsoft will either be beaten or have to join us," he said. "At minimum,
they will have to implement a Linux-compatible API [an Application Program
Interface which would eventually allow you to run Windows-based programs on
Linux]"

Linux gives Microsoft a Halloween scare

Linux is the Operating System developed by the Finn Linus Torvalds when a
student at Helsinki University, taking the heart of the Unix OS, its kernel,
and building a purer architecture around it.

Eric lauds the "bazaar" approach that Torvalds went on to perfect:
programmers beavering away all over the world to improve the source code he
had developed and distributed and spotting and fixing bugs for him. Torvalds
released new versions of Linux early and often and treated his users as
co-developers.

"Microsoft can't beat, could join us"

The result has been an extremely reliable operating system whose incredible
growth in popularity is worrying Microsoft.

"OSS [Open Source Software] poses a direct, short-term revenue and platform
threat to Microsoft - particularly in server space," said an internal
Microsoft memo leaked in October to Eric and dubbed the Halloween document.

"The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness the collective IQ of
thousands of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing. More
importantly, OSS evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much
faster than our own evangelization efforts appear to scale."

The Cathedral versus the bazaar approach

Eric cites the statistics: "Linux gained 212% in market share last year,
it's now at 17% of the business market, and it's doubling every six months
now. The market share of the dominant web server, Apache, is pushing 59% and
it is Open Source, and all the other Web servers, the proprietary Web
servers are failing, they're falling out of the market."

Eric sees Microsoft's "cathedral" approach of building a proprietary,
complicated architecture in isolation as fundamentally flawed.

His paper quotes the aircraft designer Antoine de Saint-Exupiry: "Perfection
[in design] is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather
when there is nothing more to take away."

He adds in the interview: "The only critical proprietary resource is the
brains of your people, everything else is illusion. The key point is that
making things proprietary actually destroys value rather than creating it."

On an engineering not moral crusade

Eric's reasoning on Open Source inspired Netscape to release its browser's
code over the Internet and his pragmatic approach, emphasising the
reliability of the software, has encouraged major names such as Intel, IBM,
HP, Corel and Caldera to support it.

He differs from his friend Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software
Foundation, who feels idealistically the movement is more a question of
freedom than price.

"We've had a lot of problems in the past with advocates who were on too much
of a moral crusade and not concerned enough with practicalities, so I'm
after good engineering outcomes. We've finally found a way to get the
message out.

"Beating Microsoft would be sort of a virtuous side effect of what we're
really after which is to produce high-quality software which is available to
a lot of people."

The business models of Open Source

His next paper, The Magic Cauldron, will detail the economic and business
models for Open Source. He gives four models for making money:


Support Sellers Companies can give software away for free but make money on
services such as after-sales.

Loss Leader The software is given away free with the aim of supporting the
sale of other related software.

Widget Frosting Hardware makers make their drivers and interface tools Open
Source to save them the costs of working out bugs and improvements to the
software.

Accessorising Selling accessories such as books, compatible hardware and
complete systems with Open Source software pre-installed.
"Software is actually a service industry and we need to learn to think
explicitly in those terms of selling services.

"Some Open Source infrastructure will eventually dominate computing I'm
sure, and Linux seems like the fairest bet at the moment."

UK looks at Open Source for e-commerce

Eric spoke at the Linux Open Source Software Conference, organised by Eddie
Bleasdale of netproject, who built the first UNIX computer in Europe in
1981.

Bleasdale: Open Source for e-commerce

Eddie is convinced that Open Source will be the catalyst that changes the
computer industry.

"Linux is the basis for building stable, reliable systems for e-commerce,"
he says.

"Windows NT [ the Microsoft operating system favoured for Web server and
business use] became dominant because the oppositon was divided. Linux is
not forking. Linux will define the API for every other version of Unix and
we will win when the Linux API is imported onto Windows NT."

Open standards "more important"

Speaking at the same conference, Professor Peter Murray-Rust, who was on the
World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) working group developing the Extensible
Mark-Up Language (XML), said open standards were even more important than
Open Source on the Web.

Peter Murray-Rust on open standards

He said he was hopeful that companies, including Microsoft, would not hamper
progress with proprietary extensions:

"Microsoft have taken a very active lead and they have stuck very closely to
the current standard," he said.

"Where you will see a lot of creative tension on the Web is the fact that
people want to move very fast and it takes time to develop these standards.
So I think you will see a variety of manufacturers anticipating what's going
to happen.

"Whether we can manage everything with open standards, I don't know. At the
moment, I'm very excited at the way people are working together on this."

(c) BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_263000/263825.stm


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From kurt  Fri Jan 29 15:12:45 1999
From: kurt (Kurt Cockrum)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: comments on recent backNforth
Message-ID: <199901292312.PAA25088@scn.org>

I said:
> [...] high-flying thin-skinned prima-donnas who weren't willing to [...]

Rich said:
>About James' proposal being just a thin-skinned reaction, I don't agree.
>An audit is required.  That is not a "skin" issue.

I wasn't speaking of James, I was speaking of the much-vaunted
group of departed fundraising experts.  As far as audits go, a high-priced
auditor is never going to question the wisdom of their own hiring :)
Only Dogbert could get away with that :)

Several progressive organizations I've belonged to in the past used a
concept called "open books", i. e. any member in good standing could
get a look at them at any time.  This was seen as part and parcel of
the democracy that constituted the organization.  This implies, of
course, that the books need to be more-or-less in a state of
inspection-readiness at all times, rather than normally being in
disarray except at brief quarterly intervals.  In other words, the
books are the main product, for which a view is always available, and
the 909's (or whatever they are called) are toss-off views designed for
the specific reporting requirements of some government agency (but not
the main product, but derivative).

In another post, Rich said:
>You just got co-opted by the opposite side.  Joel is still trying to
>legitimize board revenge because I called him a creep.

I don't know what's going on here, but it looks like things are getting
kinda personal among various members of the board.  Maybe those people
should pony up some $$ for some mediation services.  This should
probably come out of their own pockets, which would look a lot better
politically.  Probably wouldn't cost more than $100.  In other words,
spend the money and get it fixed.  The mediator can be of assistance
getting to the root of the problem, which otherwise is probably not
doable without the parties somehow "rising above themselves", something
I've learned not to expect.

Steve said:
>Apparently, there are IP's who have been waiting a very long time for 
>such things as mailing lists, because we simply do not have the 
>personnel to handle these kinds of requests.

1000's and 1000's of people use majordomo all over the world.
I think there's even an O'Reilly book on the subject.  A lot of problems
could probably be fixed by individuals being less tight-fisted, or by
being more flexible.  Buy the book, check it out of the library, acquire
it by means I don't want to hear about, just somehow *get* the dam' book
and *read* it.  Or surf on the web to where the docs are, and read those.
"Water, water all around us, nor a drop to drink"
 --Coleridge, "The Ancient Mariner" (modulo my defective memory :)

"[...] we simply do not have the personnel [...]"??
You've *got* the personnel, namely the IP's and mentors themselves.
Can't they do anything but "steam over the interminable delays"?  This
obviously is not a very good way of solving the problem.  Is this some
kind of perverted class issue, where they don't want to get their hands
dirty?  It sure looks like it.  I'd expect the mentor, at least, to
identify the barrier and and work around it.  But it sounds like the
mentors are more used to hollering "help" and then waiting for rescue
(which may not come for a long time, given the overloaded condition of
the helpers).  Some mentor!  And it does no good to say "but a mentor
shouldn't have to do that".  The needs and requirements say this is
obviously false, no matter how much it sticks in people's craws.

There's an old saying, "the gods help those who help themselves".
I'm reminded of some bathroom graffiti I saw once in a truck stop:
	Here I sit with a pounding heart:
	popped 6 pills & my truck won't start!
and somebody wrote below it,
	If your pills were worth a fuck,
	you'd get out and pull your truck!

Ya know, it is *extremely* difficult to maintain a spirit of
egalitarianism and mutual respect when people yell and clamor for
things that they apparently don't *want* to know a thing *about*; they
just wanna step-on-the-pedal-and-go.  Then they demand respect and
deference for their leadfoot and skidmarks.  This, a hallmark of
American culture, is really pretty infantile.  And we always wind up
colluding with and reinforcing it.  Jeez!!!

Rich said, replying to posts from Steve & Al:
>However, a second problem relates to this point.  The existing
>committees/functions do not "apprentice" people.  This needs to change so
>that, if a Mac Truck takes out a key player (or he/she moves to _____), we
>will have people with significant skills.

In a recent post to the hardware list, Dave Barts said that he had no
difficulty getting Majordomo going, so we know it's *doable*.  So why
is it that we aren't able to use or replicate Dave's efforts in a
useful way?  Dave mentioned that majordomo wasn't "user-friendly".
Well, the software can't make itself more user-friendly, since it lacks
the agency to do so, and the author has rightly decided that no more
work on his part is necessary (so I would presume), so it looks like
the onus is on the user to compensate, as Dave has done.  He also
mentioned that Stefani had done some of the work.

AFAIK Stefani is an example of what I wish we had a zillion of --
a self-taught self-starter.  She came aboard not knowing anything about
news or mailing lists, and just bit the bullet and *did* it.  So, too,
are Rod and jj.  Maybe it would work better if we just *stopped* looking
for volunteers who *aren't* self-taught self-starters...after all, if you
are in a hole, first you need to stop digging, right?  And it would
reduce the wear-and-tear on that hard-to-find and burnout-prone
Universal Savior, the "Volunteer Coordinator", who has to figure out
interesting tasks for people.

All this, I'm sure, sounds just awful to mentors, way more than they had
bargained for.  But this is sort of like joining the Army and later
finding out you might have to go into combat.  Heavens to Betsy, what
did we get into!  Maybe the "job description" of mentors and/or IP's
needs to be reworked, so that unpleasant truths aren't edited out.
Army recruiters have to edit out unpleasant truths because they have
performance quotas imposed from above that couldn't be met if that
weren't done.  This surely isn't the case for us, is it?

Why can't IP's and their mentors work together to get together mailing
lists for their respective interests?  Surely *somebody* might be
successful, and they could *share* their knowledge.  As one example the
Linux Documentation Project solves this problem with little screeds
called "HOW-TO"s, edited collections of specialized knowledge distilled
over time, specifically designed to help newbies get up to speed.  Mentors
and IP's could distill their experiences for the benefit of others.
It is *this* sort of thing that I always thought would be an example of
SCN functioning at its highest level, *not* simply delivering prepackaged
"services" to demanding "consumers" the way for-profits do, only with
the additional handicap of working for free.  As I've said over and
over again, I think SCN should be teaching people to fish, not *delivering*
fish, in competition with for-profit fish-delivery companies.
I'm quite well aware that this seems to mark a fundamental philosophical
divide among the major SCN players :( .

It looks like what we wind up with is critical dependencies of the
"Mack-Truck-vulnerable" sort, hard-wired right into the system from the
git-go, with situations continually arising where somebody, playing a
"hero" role, has to "save the day" for the collectivity, unable to help
themselves for cultural reasons, and, of course, eventually burning out
the hero-person.  Our culture (and most others around the world) really
isn't very smart, and we human beings, for all of our much-vaunted
smarts, seem to be stuck in it, so that we don't function collectively
much better than, say, a pack of dogs.  Which is OK as long as all we
are doing is doggy-things, but doesn't work so well outside the dog
realm, deep in real-world problem-space.
--kurt
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From douglas  Fri Jan 29 15:35:18 1999
From: douglas (Doug Schuler)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:35:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Community/Micro Radio -- almost a reality??
Message-ID: <199901292335.PAA03345@scn.org>

FYI,

FCC PLANS TO LICENSE LOW-POWER FM RADIO
Issue:  Radio
The Federal Communications Commission is expected to unveil a plan to create
thousands of new radio stations across the country by licensing low-power FM
broadcasting. Licenses would be granted to individuals, schools, community
groups and others currently without broadcast licenses. The proposal calls
for three classes of licenses: 1,000-watt stations with a broadcast signal
diameter of about 18 miles; 100-watt stations with a signal diameter of 7
miles, and 1- to 10-watt stations whose signals could cover a 2- to 4-mile
diameter. Unlike the millions of dollars it takes to start a full-power FM
station, these new operations could be started for a few thousand dollars.
"I'm enthusiastic about the proposal," said FCC Chairman William Kennard. "I
have a sense of urgency about getting it done, and I'm going to proceed."
The National Association of Broadcasters opposes the idea warning that the
new stations may interfere will existing stations. James concludes: "The NAB
could be a formidable obstacle to the FCC's low-power radio idea. The
broadcast industry often is treated deferentially by lawmakers who depend on
the airtime they purchase from broadcasters during election campaigns."
[SOURCE: Chicago Tribune (Sec 1, p.13), AUTHOR: Frank James]
<http://chicagotribune.com/textversion/article/0,1492,SAV-9901280202,00.html/>



Updated for 1999!  http://www.inter-act.net

Internews Interactive
citizen at inter-act.net
tel: 415.457.5222
fax: 415.457.6810


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From alboss at scn.org  Fri Jan 29 16:33:22 1999
From: alboss at scn.org (Al Boss)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:33:22 -0800
Subject: comments on recent backNforth
References: <199901292312.PAA25088@scn.org>
Message-ID: <36B25352.7BF94BD1@scn.org>

Kurt Cockrum wrote:
> 
> ...I don't know what's going on here, but it looks like things are 
> getting kinda personal among various members of the board.  

Getting?

Just the Board?

Understatements, if you ask me.

> ...Maybe those people
> should pony up some $$ for some mediation services...  Probably 
> wouldn't cost more than $100.  In other words,
> spend the money and get it fixed.  The mediator can be of assistance
> getting to the root of the problem...

Kurt, you're brilliant!  (Not that that's news.)  I'll chip in the first
$10.00 towards a mediation service as long as it extends beyond the
board to cover active volunteers; it'd be worth it just to cut down on
my e-mail traffic alone.  In fact, I think it'd be one heck of a
fundraising opportunity. I'll up my donation to $20.00 if measurable
goals are set and agreed upon, and I'll double it if they're achieved.  
Let the pledges begin.

$10 Al
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From femme2 at scn.org  Fri Jan 29 18:31:36 1999
From: femme2 at scn.org (Lorraine Pozzi)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:31:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: comments on recent backNforth
In-Reply-To: <36B25352.7BF94BD1@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990129182424.2496A-100000@scn>

On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Al Boss wrote:

<snip> 
> Kurt, you're brilliant!  

So brilliant that he knows what's going on when he hasn't
participated -- the Fundraising Committee was definitely NOT
a bunch of prima donnas.  Nor thin-skinned whiners.  I think Kurt
(and others) identify REAL volunteers as those who join the Hardware/
Software committee and hold their ground.  Which is a major problem
in SCN, but hardly in the way that Kurt sees it.

Al, YOU are brilliant!  I will be happy to follow your lead and pledge
my $10 toward a mediator.  Provided, of course, that the mediator
is not chosen by someone who is bestest friends with said mediator.

Lorraine
femme2 at scn.org


I'll chip in the first
> $10.00 towards a mediation service as long as it extends beyond the
> board to cover active volunteers; it'd be worth it just to cut down on
> my e-mail traffic alone.  In fact, I think it'd be one heck of a
> fundraising opportunity. I'll up my donation to $20.00 if measurable
> goals are set and agreed upon, and I'll double it if they're achieved.  
> Let the pledges begin.
> 
> $10 Al
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From bb140 at scn.org  Fri Jan 29 19:09:34 1999
From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:09:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: comments on recent backNforth
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990129182424.2496A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990129190828.15158A-100000@scn>

Sure, me too, $10.  Do we get to observe?  
Barb


On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Lorraine Pozzi wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Al Boss wrote:
> 
> <snip> 
> > Kurt, you're brilliant!  
> 
> So brilliant that he knows what's going on when he hasn't
> participated -- the Fundraising Committee was definitely NOT
> a bunch of prima donnas.  Nor thin-skinned whiners.  I think Kurt
> (and others) identify REAL volunteers as those who join the Hardware/
> Software committee and hold their ground.  Which is a major problem
> in SCN, but hardly in the way that Kurt sees it.
> 
> Al, YOU are brilliant!  I will be happy to follow your lead and pledge
> my $10 toward a mediator.  Provided, of course, that the mediator
> is not chosen by someone who is bestest friends with said mediator.
> 
> Lorraine
> femme2 at scn.org
> 
> 
> I'll chip in the first
> > $10.00 towards a mediation service as long as it extends beyond the
> > board to cover active volunteers; it'd be worth it just to cut down on
> > my e-mail traffic alone.  In fact, I think it'd be one heck of a
> > fundraising opportunity. I'll up my donation to $20.00 if measurable
> > goals are set and agreed upon, and I'll double it if they're achieved.  
> > Let the pledges begin.
> > 
> > $10 Al
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> 
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From be718 at scn.org  Sat Jan 30 02:36:40 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 02:36:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: comments on recent backNforth
In-Reply-To: <199901292312.PAA25088@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990130023152.24234A-100000@scn>


Kurt makes good points:  about the open books and about the unresolved
problems from Governance's interpretation and actions.

I see two alternatives:  put a muzzle on governance until more important
priorities are out of the way, OR

let's immediately (don't wait until the next meeting) to actually deal
with what I see as Governance out of control.

If anyone wants to phrase the issues differently, fine, but we either get
off the censorship kick or we actually deal with the issues, including the
complaints I've made since September (October?).

Rich

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Kurt Cockrum wrote:

> I said:
> > [...] high-flying thin-skinned prima-donnas who weren't willing to [...]
> 
> Rich said:
> >About James' proposal being just a thin-skinned reaction, I don't agree.
> >An audit is required.  That is not a "skin" issue.
> 
> I wasn't speaking of James, I was speaking of the much-vaunted
> group of departed fundraising experts.  As far as audits go, a high-priced
> auditor is never going to question the wisdom of their own hiring :)
> Only Dogbert could get away with that :)
> 
> Several progressive organizations I've belonged to in the past used a
> concept called "open books", i. e. any member in good standing could
> get a look at them at any time.  This was seen as part and parcel of
> the democracy that constituted the organization.  This implies, of
> course, that the books need to be more-or-less in a state of
> inspection-readiness at all times, rather than normally being in
> disarray except at brief quarterly intervals.  In other words, the
> books are the main product, for which a view is always available, and
> the 909's (or whatever they are called) are toss-off views designed for
> the specific reporting requirements of some government agency (but not
> the main product, but derivative).
> 
> In another post, Rich said:
> >You just got co-opted by the opposite side.  Joel is still trying to
> >legitimize board revenge because I called him a creep.
> 
> I don't know what's going on here, but it looks like things are getting
> kinda personal among various members of the board.  Maybe those people
> should pony up some $$ for some mediation services.  This should
> probably come out of their own pockets, which would look a lot better
> politically.  Probably wouldn't cost more than $100.  In other words,
> spend the money and get it fixed.  The mediator can be of assistance
> getting to the root of the problem, which otherwise is probably not
> doable without the parties somehow "rising above themselves", something
> I've learned not to expect.
> 
> Steve said:
> >Apparently, there are IP's who have been waiting a very long time for 
> >such things as mailing lists, because we simply do not have the 
> >personnel to handle these kinds of requests.
> 
> 1000's and 1000's of people use majordomo all over the world.
> I think there's even an O'Reilly book on the subject.  A lot of problems
> could probably be fixed by individuals being less tight-fisted, or by
> being more flexible.  Buy the book, check it out of the library, acquire
> it by means I don't want to hear about, just somehow *get* the dam' book
> and *read* it.  Or surf on the web to where the docs are, and read those.
> "Water, water all around us, nor a drop to drink"
>  --Coleridge, "The Ancient Mariner" (modulo my defective memory :)
> 
> "[...] we simply do not have the personnel [...]"??
> You've *got* the personnel, namely the IP's and mentors themselves.
> Can't they do anything but "steam over the interminable delays"?  This
> obviously is not a very good way of solving the problem.  Is this some
> kind of perverted class issue, where they don't want to get their hands
> dirty?  It sure looks like it.  I'd expect the mentor, at least, to
> identify the barrier and and work around it.  But it sounds like the
> mentors are more used to hollering "help" and then waiting for rescue
> (which may not come for a long time, given the overloaded condition of
> the helpers).  Some mentor!  And it does no good to say "but a mentor
> shouldn't have to do that".  The needs and requirements say this is
> obviously false, no matter how much it sticks in people's craws.
> 
> There's an old saying, "the gods help those who help themselves".
> I'm reminded of some bathroom graffiti I saw once in a truck stop:
> 	Here I sit with a pounding heart:
> 	popped 6 pills & my truck won't start!
> and somebody wrote below it,
> 	If your pills were worth a fuck,
> 	you'd get out and pull your truck!
> 
> Ya know, it is *extremely* difficult to maintain a spirit of
> egalitarianism and mutual respect when people yell and clamor for
> things that they apparently don't *want* to know a thing *about*; they
> just wanna step-on-the-pedal-and-go.  Then they demand respect and
> deference for their leadfoot and skidmarks.  This, a hallmark of
> American culture, is really pretty infantile.  And we always wind up
> colluding with and reinforcing it.  Jeez!!!
> 
> Rich said, replying to posts from Steve & Al:
> >However, a second problem relates to this point.  The existing
> >committees/functions do not "apprentice" people.  This needs to change so
> >that, if a Mac Truck takes out a key player (or he/she moves to _____), we
> >will have people with significant skills.
> 
> In a recent post to the hardware list, Dave Barts said that he had no
> difficulty getting Majordomo going, so we know it's *doable*.  So why
> is it that we aren't able to use or replicate Dave's efforts in a
> useful way?  Dave mentioned that majordomo wasn't "user-friendly".
> Well, the software can't make itself more user-friendly, since it lacks
> the agency to do so, and the author has rightly decided that no more
> work on his part is necessary (so I would presume), so it looks like
> the onus is on the user to compensate, as Dave has done.  He also
> mentioned that Stefani had done some of the work.
> 
> AFAIK Stefani is an example of what I wish we had a zillion of --
> a self-taught self-starter.  She came aboard not knowing anything about
> news or mailing lists, and just bit the bullet and *did* it.  So, too,
> are Rod and jj.  Maybe it would work better if we just *stopped* looking
> for volunteers who *aren't* self-taught self-starters...after all, if you
> are in a hole, first you need to stop digging, right?  And it would
> reduce the wear-and-tear on that hard-to-find and burnout-prone
> Universal Savior, the "Volunteer Coordinator", who has to figure out
> interesting tasks for people.
> 
> All this, I'm sure, sounds just awful to mentors, way more than they had
> bargained for.  But this is sort of like joining the Army and later
> finding out you might have to go into combat.  Heavens to Betsy, what
> did we get into!  Maybe the "job description" of mentors and/or IP's
> needs to be reworked, so that unpleasant truths aren't edited out.
> Army recruiters have to edit out unpleasant truths because they have
> performance quotas imposed from above that couldn't be met if that
> weren't done.  This surely isn't the case for us, is it?
> 
> Why can't IP's and their mentors work together to get together mailing
> lists for their respective interests?  Surely *somebody* might be
> successful, and they could *share* their knowledge.  As one example the
> Linux Documentation Project solves this problem with little screeds
> called "HOW-TO"s, edited collections of specialized knowledge distilled
> over time, specifically designed to help newbies get up to speed.  Mentors
> and IP's could distill their experiences for the benefit of others.
> It is *this* sort of thing that I always thought would be an example of
> SCN functioning at its highest level, *not* simply delivering prepackaged
> "services" to demanding "consumers" the way for-profits do, only with
> the additional handicap of working for free.  As I've said over and
> over again, I think SCN should be teaching people to fish, not *delivering*
> fish, in competition with for-profit fish-delivery companies.
> I'm quite well aware that this seems to mark a fundamental philosophical
> divide among the major SCN players :( .
> 
> It looks like what we wind up with is critical dependencies of the
> "Mack-Truck-vulnerable" sort, hard-wired right into the system from the
> git-go, with situations continually arising where somebody, playing a
> "hero" role, has to "save the day" for the collectivity, unable to help
> themselves for cultural reasons, and, of course, eventually burning out
> the hero-person.  Our culture (and most others around the world) really
> isn't very smart, and we human beings, for all of our much-vaunted
> smarts, seem to be stuck in it, so that we don't function collectively
> much better than, say, a pack of dogs.  Which is OK as long as all we
> are doing is doggy-things, but doesn't work so well outside the dog
> realm, deep in real-world problem-space.
> --kurt
> 

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From be718 at scn.org  Sat Jan 30 02:44:34 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 02:44:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: comments on recent backNforth
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990129182424.2496A-100000@scn>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990130024420.24234C-100000@scn>


I'm in for $10.

Rich

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Lorraine Pozzi wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Al Boss wrote:
> 
> <snip> 
> > Kurt, you're brilliant!  
> 
> So brilliant that he knows what's going on when he hasn't
> participated -- the Fundraising Committee was definitely NOT
> a bunch of prima donnas.  Nor thin-skinned whiners.  I think Kurt
> (and others) identify REAL volunteers as those who join the Hardware/
> Software committee and hold their ground.  Which is a major problem
> in SCN, but hardly in the way that Kurt sees it.
> 
> Al, YOU are brilliant!  I will be happy to follow your lead and pledge
> my $10 toward a mediator.  Provided, of course, that the mediator
> is not chosen by someone who is bestest friends with said mediator.
> 
> Lorraine
> femme2 at scn.org
> 
> 
> I'll chip in the first
> > $10.00 towards a mediation service as long as it extends beyond the
> > board to cover active volunteers; it'd be worth it just to cut down on
> > my e-mail traffic alone.  In fact, I think it'd be one heck of a
> > fundraising opportunity. I'll up my donation to $20.00 if measurable
> > goals are set and agreed upon, and I'll double it if they're achieved.  
> > Let the pledges begin.
> > 
> > $10 Al
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  From the Listowner  * * * * * * * * * * * *
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> 
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From kurt  Sun Jan 31 12:26:16 1999
From: kurt (Kurt Cockrum)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:26:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: funny spam
Message-ID: <199901312026.MAA13380@scn.org>

>From recent spam:
>[...]
>This means you can literally <U>explode your business and have a 100 or more pr
                                 ^^^^^^^
ospects to call in the next week.

hee, hee, I just love some of the unconscious humor I see in some of
these spams.  Now if it were *his* business instead of *my* "business",
and those 100 or more prospects weren't all likely to be wearing badges,
I'd buy a couple of carloads :) :)

>[...]
>    Now look, I'm not talking about sending your offer out to just anyone. I'm
talking about blasting your offer out[...]
              ^^^^^^^^
Me either^H^H^H^H^H^Htoo.  :)
--kurt
  Click Here and send hit...
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From gtruzzi at scn.org  Sun Jan 31 20:14:38 1999
From: gtruzzi at scn.org (Gianni Truzzi)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:14:38 -0800
Subject: No more office
Message-ID: <36B52A2E.73FD1F21@scn.org>

To any interested SCN volunteers:

As of January, we have terminated our sublease at the Good Shepherd
Center. All items were removed from the office, and have been
distributed to the four winds. So, if you were planning on going there,
don't.

CAMP/ROPE has been kind enough to allow us to store our file cabinets at
their facility, in case anyone needs the records contained there. Also
stored there are the SCN T-Shirts, spare envelopes and our show banner.

Beginning this month, we shall have a computer database (courtesy of
yours truly), containing all registrations, donations and memberships.
This will be maintained by a management company, Shirly Bishop Inc. This
will allow us to maintain current and accurate records, have a fast
turnaround time for SCN registrations and relieve many of our volunteers
to do other, more exciting things.

--
Gianni Truzzi
President, Seattle Community Network Association




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From be718 at scn.org  Sun Jan 31 23:32:18 1999
From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:32:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No more office
In-Reply-To: <36B52A2E.73FD1F21@scn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.990131233056.29753A-100000@scn>


Good show on the office decision.

Rich

______________________________________________________________________

*****  Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded.  ******

On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Gianni Truzzi wrote:

> To any interested SCN volunteers:
> 
> As of January, we have terminated our sublease at the Good Shepherd
> Center. All items were removed from the office, and have been
> distributed to the four winds. So, if you were planning on going there,
> don't.
> 
> CAMP/ROPE has been kind enough to allow us to store our file cabinets at
> their facility, in case anyone needs the records contained there. Also
> stored there are the SCN T-Shirts, spare envelopes and our show banner.
> 
> Beginning this month, we shall have a computer database (courtesy of
> yours truly), containing all registrations, donations and memberships.
> This will be maintained by a management company, Shirly Bishop Inc. This
> will allow us to maintain current and accurate records, have a fast
> turnaround time for SCN registrations and relieve many of our volunteers
> to do other, more exciting things.
> 
> --
> Gianni Truzzi
> President, Seattle Community Network Association
> 
> 
> 
> 
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