From jmabel at saltmine.com Tue Jun 1 08:32:58 1999 From: jmabel at saltmine.com (Joe Mabel) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:32:58 -0700 Subject: IP menu Message-ID: <01BEAC09.5B395640.jmabel@saltmine.com> I haven't done Unix in about a decade, but for someone who is up to speed the programming part of this is trivial ( < 10 mins per command). However, making up the command names is not trivial. Remember that they cannot be identical to normal Unix commands: e.g. you'd want, say, "makedir" or "MKDIR" instead of "mkdir". Otherwise, you hide the normal mkdir. If you want to create associated help of any sort, that could end up being an equally large task. I would suggest that things like this are useful exactly where the Unix command is cryptic: e.g. "copy" for cp, "move" for mv, "dir" for ls, etc. -----Original Message----- From: Rod Clark [SMTP:bb615 at scn.org] Sent: Friday, May 28, 1999 6:08 PM To: Joe Mabel Cc: Seattle Public Theater; scn at scn.org; webmasters at scn.org Subject: RE: IP menu > & for that matter there is nothing that stops us from making shell > script files such as one with the name "copy" that prompts you > appropriately, gets the arguments, then calls cp, etc. You can add > "friendly" commands to a unix shell. Joe, It would be a nice project for someone to do, and it's not rocket science, so various people could do it. Here's most of the current list of IP Menu commands, in the command format that the IP Menu program uses, in case anyone is curious. What would be your estimate of the time needed, if we wanted to put this on a project list? Rod home cmd=cd $HOME work cmd=cd $HOME/work cd cmd=cd prompt=Go_to_the_directory pwd cmd=pwd ls cmd=pwd;ls arg=-CFA | cmd=more dir cmd=pwd;ls arg=-Flags | cmd=more mkdir cmd=mkdir prompt=Create_a_new_directory_named rmdir cmd=rmdir prompt=Delete_the_directory cpdir cmd=cp arg=-ir prompt=Copy_this_directory prompt=To_a_new_directory_named cp cmd=cp arg=-i prompt=Copy_the_file prompt=To_(new_filename_or_directory_name) mv cmd=mv arg=-i prompt=Move_the_file prompt=To_(new_filename_or_directory_name) rm cmd=rm arg=-i prompt=Delete_the_file more cmd=more prompt=(Space_bar_to_page,_Q_quits)_Display_the_file diff cmd=diff prompt=Show_differences_between_this_file prompt=and_this_file grep cmd=fgrep prompt=Phrase_to_find prompt=Files_to_search_(example:_these*.html_*.txt) sort cmd=sort prompt=Input_file arg=-o prompt=Output_file e cmd=/usr/local/FreePort/lib/bin/editor prompt=Edit_the_file chmod cmd=chmod prompt=Permissions prompt=File_(or_directory) chgrp cmd=chgrp prompt=Change_group_to prompt=File_(or_directory) t2html cmd=txt2html.pl prompt=Input_(text)_file arg=> prompt=Output_(HTML)_file fplynx cmd=/usr/local/FreePort/bin/fplynx prompt=file_(example:_/web.root/news/index.html) gzip cmd=gzip prompt=Compress_(gzip)_the_file gunzip cmd=gunzip prompt=Uncompress_(gunzip)_the_file zmore cmd=zmore prompt=Display_the_file df cmd=pwd;df arg=. du cmd=pwd;du | cmd=more usedtot cmd=pwd;du arg=-s $arg=HOME code cmd=uuencode prompt=File_to_encode prompt=Name_to_call_it_at_remote_end arg=> prompt=Output_file decode cmd=uudecode prompt=File_to_decode w cmd=w |sort|more who cmd=who |sort|more ps cmd=ps arg=g|more ftp cmd=ftp prompt=Remote_host_to_connect_to dak cmd=kermit arg=-s prompt=File dax cmd=xmodem arg=-stlk prompt=File day cmd=sb arg=-ka prompt=File daz cmd=sz -a -w 1024 prompt=File dbk cmd=kermit arg=-is prompt=File dbx cmd=xmodem arg=-sblk prompt=File dby cmd=sb arg=-kb prompt=File dbz cmd=sz -b -w 1024 prompt=File uak cmd=kermit arg=-r uax cmd=xmodem arg=-rtlk prompt=File uay cmd=rb arg=-a uaz cmd=rz arg=-a ubk cmd=kermit arg=-ir ubx cmd=xmodem arg=-rblk prompt=File uby cmd=rb arg=-b ubz cmd=rz arg=-b * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From spt at scn.org Tue Jun 1 09:14:41 1999 From: spt at scn.org (Seattle Public Theater) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IP menu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rod: I personally don't want to do anything that is blank screen programming i.e. there's not menu right there. I also don't want to learn a new way of doing this. I would prefer the IP menu work, even if it means deleting some of those commands. Barb On Fri, 28 May 1999, Rod Clark wrote: > Barb, > > Using the IP Menu is frustrating enough that something should > be done about it. The IP Menu was supposed to help with several > things, when the Information Providers didn't have access to the > Unix shell. (They all do, now.) > > First, display a handy menu to remind people of what > functions are available, and what the names of the commands are > to do them. Second, substitute some friendlier command names for > some of the Unix command names. Third, limit people to using a > basic set of commands that probably wouldn't mess things up too > badly when used from the menu (which does a little error > checking, etc.). > > All of the IPs can use the shell directly now. (Type "shell" > at the Your Choice --> prompt, and then type "exit" to go back > to the menus.) I wonder whether it might be better to make a > help screen that you could call up from the shell if and when > you need it (say, by typing "help") that would remind you of the > basic commands, but otherwise wouldn't be obtrusive. > > Maybe the IP Menu should be more of an introduction to using > the real Unix commands than it is now, instead of a complete > replacement for access to the Unix prompt. Generally speaking, > the real commands also work when you type them in on the IP > menu, even though they're not listed on the screen along with > the nicer English equivalents. > > So it might be better to add the underlying "cp", "mv", "rm", > "ls" syntax of the Unix commands onto the IP menu, instead of > using only the "copy", "move", "delete", "list" equivalents and > other made-up stuff that doesn't carry over when you go to the > shell. > > Would you be comfortable using the shell directly, if a > reasonable help screen, or set of help screens, were made > available? You'd have to type things like > > cp some.file /web/arts/spt > > instead of typing "copy" and then following the prompts that > come up asking for the file name and the destination. > > Rod > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb615 at scn.org Tue Jun 1 11:17:23 1999 From: bb615 at scn.org (Rod Clark) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IP menu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Barb wrote: > I personally don't want to do anything that is blank screen > programming i.e. there's not menu right there. Joe and Barb, OK. Then how about this? - The menu screen would always be there, to provide a quick reference list of the most often needed commands. - Each command listed on the menu would have a friendly help file that you could view, that would be easier to understand than the Unix "man" file for the command. You could view the help screen for a command at any time by typing, for example: help cp When you press Enter after reading the help file, the main main would re-display and wait for the next command. - The menu program would let you execute complete commands directly. It wouldn't force you to type each command with no arguments, and and then wait for a prompt and then type the first argument and then wait for another prompt and then type the second argument. So you could type, for example: cp file1 file2 - Unlike now, the menu system would let you execute any valid Unix command. For help with any commands not included in the list of menu commands with friendly help files, you'd have to use the unfriendly Unix "man" utility. Does this sound like a reasonable approach? We'd have to rewrite the menu program quite a lot to do this (it's written in C), and write up a fairly large number of nice help files. It would be worth checking first to see whether something like this exists already in the Unix world. Keep in mind that this isn't ever going to get done unless either the Hardware/Software committee or the Executive Committee (aka Services - meets this Thursday at 7 at the Broadview Library) puts it on their agenda and gets some volunteers to work on it. Rod Clark * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb615 at scn.org Tue Jun 1 11:30:13 1999 From: bb615 at scn.org (Rod Clark) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IP menu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > - The menu program would let you execute complete commands > directly. It wouldn't force you to type each command with no > arguments, and and then wait for a prompt and then type the > first argument and then wait for another prompt and then type > the second argument. So you could type, for example: > > cp file1 file2 Joe/Barb, But if you type a command that needs arguments without typing any arguments for it, then the menu program would display the friendly help screen for the command. cp file1 file2 (executed directly, no help display) cp (triggers a friendly help screen) Rod * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From jmabel at saltmine.com Tue Jun 1 11:27:21 1999 From: jmabel at saltmine.com (Joe Mabel) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:27:21 -0700 Subject: IP menu Message-ID: <01BEAC21.B79C88E0.jmabel@saltmine.com> I don't care. I don't use it. All I was trying to do was to point out that if the objection is that Unix commands are too obscure (e.g. "cp" for copy), it's easy to add mnemonic ones. -----Original Message----- From: Rod Clark [SMTP:bb615 at scn.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 11:17 AM To: Seattle Public Theater Cc: scn at scn.org; webmasters at scn.org Subject: Re: IP menu Barb wrote: > I personally don't want to do anything that is blank screen > programming i.e. there's not menu right there. Joe and Barb, OK. Then how about this? - The menu screen would always be there, to provide a quick reference list of the most often needed commands. - Each command listed on the menu would have a friendly help file that you could view, that would be easier to understand than the Unix "man" file for the command. You could view the help screen for a command at any time by typing, for example: help cp When you press Enter after reading the help file, the main main would re-display and wait for the next command. - The menu program would let you execute complete commands directly. It wouldn't force you to type each command with no arguments, and and then wait for a prompt and then type the first argument and then wait for another prompt and then type the second argument. So you could type, for example: cp file1 file2 - Unlike now, the menu system would let you execute any valid Unix command. For help with any commands not included in the list of menu commands with friendly help files, you'd have to use the unfriendly Unix "man" utility. Does this sound like a reasonable approach? We'd have to rewrite the menu program quite a lot to do this (it's written in C), and write up a fairly large number of nice help files. It would be worth checking first to see whether something like this exists already in the Unix world. Keep in mind that this isn't ever going to get done unless either the Hardware/Software committee or the Executive Committee (aka Services - meets this Thursday at 7 at the Broadview Library) puts it on their agenda and gets some volunteers to work on it. Rod Clark * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe webmasters Messages posted on this list are available on the Web at: http://www.scn.org/volunteers/webmasters/webmasters-l/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From spt at scn.org Tue Jun 1 13:38:41 1999 From: spt at scn.org (Seattle Public Theater) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IP menu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Actually, before you head on into this, why not ask Steve to do a little survey of users. For instance, there are only a few commands I use, cd, pwd, dir, e, show, and copy or move. I don't use file transfer from here, rarely use lynx from here and usually don't trust it anyway, to wit, why re-do a whole menu of unused commands. Why not write up how to use the few we need to put up pages, then have the IP menu do what the instructions say, as opposed to not doing what people say is supposed to happen. The idea is, simplify. Barb On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Rod Clark wrote: > Barb wrote: > > I personally don't want to do anything that is blank screen > > programming i.e. there's not menu right there. > > Joe and Barb, > > OK. Then how about this? > > - The menu screen would always be there, to provide a quick > reference list of the most often needed commands. > > - Each command listed on the menu would have a friendly help file > that you could view, that would be easier to understand than the Unix > "man" file for the command. You could view the help screen for a > command at any time by typing, for example: > > help cp > > When you press Enter after reading the help file, the main main > would re-display and wait for the next command. > > - The menu program would let you execute complete commands > directly. It wouldn't force you to type each command with no > arguments, and and then wait for a prompt and then type the > first argument and then wait for another prompt and then type > the second argument. So you could type, for example: > > cp file1 file2 > > - Unlike now, the menu system would let you execute any valid > Unix command. For help with any commands not included in the > list of menu commands with friendly help files, you'd have to > use the unfriendly Unix "man" utility. > > Does this sound like a reasonable approach? We'd have to > rewrite the menu program quite a lot to do this (it's written in > C), and write up a fairly large number of nice help files. It > would be worth checking first to see whether something like this > exists already in the Unix world. > > Keep in mind that this isn't ever going to get done unless > either the Hardware/Software committee or the Executive > Committee (aka Services - meets this Thursday at 7 at the > Broadview Library) puts it on their agenda and gets some > volunteers to work on it. > > Rod Clark > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From ljbeedle at scn.org Tue Jun 1 13:55:39 1999 From: ljbeedle at scn.org (Lois Beedle) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IP menu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like it if all the unix commands worked instead of just some. The hardest part I have had is in remembering what works and what doesn't. Are new IP's really having trouble with the current menu? Or do we just think they are? Lois Fact: Fourteen out of every ten people like chocolate. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From OnLineElections at BetterDemocracy.com Wed Jun 2 00:35:32 1999 From: OnLineElections at BetterDemocracy.com (OnLineElections at BetterDemocracy.com) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 00:35:32 Subject: Why women are better long-term planners and we need 50/50 legislative seats Message-ID: <295.892489.795707@unknown> Women 50/50: When legislative bodies are half women then women will be treated more wholly. With Better Democracy and Capitalism (www.edemocracy.org) half the Year 2000 legislative seats can be won by women. If you have a friend in Virginia, please encourage them to participate in the on-line primary for Virginia's legislature, June 2 deadlne. For yourself, please nominate someone for the 1st ever, on-line, nationwide Presidential Primary, July 4, 1999, based on the Spelling Bee model. This ad is being sent in compliance with Senate bill 1618, Title 3, section 301. http/www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/S771index.html Provided as a community service by Bob Barnett, 212 W. Broad, Richmond, VA, 804-344-4441. No remove option. This is a one-time mailing. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From steve at advocate.net Thu Jun 3 07:36:54 1999 From: steve at advocate.net (Steve) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 06:36:54 -0800 Subject: Activism online Message-ID: <199906031339.GAA06240@scn.org> x-no-archive: yes ================== Flash Campaigns: Online Activism at Warp Speed Rebecca Fairley Raney NY Times 6/3/99 In the swell of online political activism these days, whether the issue is children with guns or Kosovo, cutting-edge campaigns are posting a directive as powerful as any slogan: "This campaign is based solely on word of mouth. It's CRUCIAL that you tell others. To transmit a brief letter to your e-mail circle, just click here." So-called "flash campaigns," focused on hot news topics and making use of e-mail chain letters and online petitions, are erupting on the Internet. Though crises have always boosted the visibility of advocacy groups, cheap online mobilization changes the equation. With the Internet, anyone can be an advocate. The Internet is inspiring groups and individuals who have never run issue-oriented campaigns before. And with the arrival of the newcomers comes a slight fear that the role of traditional advocacy groups could fade if they fail to keep up. "They could be marginalized by these independent innovators," said Jillaine Smith, a senior associate with the Benton Foundation who tracks online advocacy. "I would like to see the more established organizations follow the example of the innovators. The challenge is to break out of that box." One of the most visible examples of a flash campaign is an effort called MoveOn.org. It was started last September by Joan Blades and Wes Boyd, a married couple from Berkeley, Calif., who had been largely uninvolved in politics. They set up an online petition calling for Congress to censure President Clinton and move on in the aftermath of the Monica Lewinsky affair. The couple sent 100 e-mail messages to friends and family asking them to add their names to the petition and forward the message to others. In the course of a few months, they gathered more than 500,000 names. People also pledged to donate $13 million next year to candidates running against members of Congress who tried to impeach the President. MoveOn received extensive media coverage, but even so, the couple says that fully 90 percent of the people who added their names to the petition heard about it through the e-mail campaign. After the high-school shootings in Littleton, Colo., Blades and Boyd reactivated their list of supporters to back a gun-control campaign. Their latest petition now has 70,000 signatures, most of them added in the first week of the campaign. Visitors to the site can also fire off e-mail to their representatives in Congress. For Congressional offices that do not take e-mail, notes are sent by fax or postal mail. During the impeachment turmoil, Blades had to start from scratch, but this time around, she had an instant list of 300,000 people to notify. The creation of that list cost practically nothing. "It really was just $89.50 to put up a Web site," Blades said. The Libertarian Party, which had earlier focused solely on backing candidates, has seen similar success with issue-based online campaigning. As a result of the party's first online effort in March, 171,000 people sent e-mail to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, protesting a proposed rule that would allow banks to closely monitor customers' financial transactions. That represented about 83 percent of the e-mail that was sent to the agency on the issue. The FDIC dropped the proposal, citing the flood of e-mail. Fresh from their first success, the Libertarians launched an anti-war site at stopthewarnow.org in late April. Steve Dasbach, national director of the party, said that in the past, the Libertarians had issued press releases stating their positions, but they had no ability to do more until the Internet came along. In addition to building support for the party, Dasbach said, "we're trying to provide opportunities for people who already oppose the war." In the first week, 1,000 people a day were sending e-mail to their representatives in Congress through the site, and more than 15,000 messages have been sent since the campaign's start. For constituents whose representatives do not take e-mail, the site provides a phone number or fax number for the local Congressional office. Although these newcomers have been quite successful, the traditional advocacy organizations could still use technology to keep their edge among the innovators. Some groups have started investing in sophisticated technology that allows precise targeting of online supporters. Ken Deutsch, vice president of Internet strategic communications at Issue Dynamics Inc. in Washington, put his company's targeting software into action in a recent campaign. Sponsored by education groups, the campaign pushed for renewal of the e-rate program, a federal subsidy for Internet connections in schools and libraries. Visitors to the site generated about 11,000 messages between the end of April and last week, when the Federal Communications Commission approved $2.25 billion in financing for the program. Traffic to the site peaked when news outlets covered the e-rate issue. That interest generated a list of supporters who can be mobilized quickly in the future. Individuals on the list will receive alerts, including phone numbers for Congressional offices, when their representatives are taking action on related issues. This potential for immediate mobilization could change the way established advocacy groups work. "It changes what you can do grass-roots work on," Deutsch said. "Real decisions get made in [Congressional] committees, and the advocacy world never knows what's coming up until the last minute. There's no time to create a new Web site and mobilize supporters." The advantage, he predicted, will lie with groups that reach a base of online supporters quickly. Whether Internet campaigning ultimately strengthens or weakens the role of established advocacy groups, the publicity surrounding flash campaigns has definitely caught their attention. "You used to mobilize people to march and demonstrate," said Smith of the Benton Foundation. "Now you mobilize them to send e-mail. It's certainly a lot easier to participate. Is it as effective? Big question mark." To Blades, the trend is healthy. During the MoveOn campaign, she frequently received thank-you notes from single mothers who appreciated having an easy way to get involved. "It's enabling the five-minute activist," she said. Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From steve at advocate.net Mon Jun 7 17:05:43 1999 From: steve at advocate.net (Steve) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:05:43 -0800 Subject: ICANN Message-ID: <199906072308.QAA24448@scn.org> x-no-archive: yes ====================== Critics See Internet Board Overstepping Its Authority Jeri Clausing NY Times 6/7/99 They were mysteriously appointed, they meet behind closed doors and they have questionable public accountability. Yet members of the interim board of the Internet's new oversight body are beginning to make decisions and shape policy that could ultimately affect everyone who uses the global network. To finance the $5.9 million annual budget of the oversight body, the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, or Icann, this temporary board has voted to levy a $1 a year tax on the more than four million Internet addresses, or domain names, that end in .com, .net and .org. The board is also planning to impose tens of thousands of dollars in licensing and other fees on companies that want to get into the business of dispensing Internet addresses. Recently, the board endorsed controversial recommendations for establishing a new global framework for resolving disputes over who can and cannot use certain words in their Internet addresses. Esther Dyson, the chairwoman of the interim board, which was set up last year, says the group is carrying out its government-mandated charge to break up the current monopoly in Internet name registration and to move Internet governance to the private sector. But critics say the board is overstepping its authority and ignoring another mandate -- to create a transparent, bottoms-up organization. Instead, they say, the board is working behind the scenes with powerful international corporate and government interests to create a top-down hierarchy that flies in the face of the free-wheeling, consensus-based spirit that built the Internet. Such sentiments are but the latest chapter in yearslong sniping fueled by international jealousies and myriad conspiracy theories. What is different now, some observers say, is that the Internet, which is built on a cooperative technology for routing data around the globe is in less stable hands -- increasing the risk that angry factions will in effect secede from the network, damaging its integrity by splitting it into several smaller, disconnected networks. Although such a split is considered unlikely, anxiety over who is running the show could curb investments in the rapidly growing electronic commerce industry. "The risks are that Icann has a little bit of authority but very little legitimacy," said Bill Whyman, an Internet analyst for the Legg Mason investment company in Washington. "This is an awkward consensus-building process. If it pushes too far and causes itself to lose support among key constituencies, Icann itself can be undercut. Then you have a very bad situation with no one in control. Then you have a very bad situation for e-commerce." Icann was created last year by one of the Internet's founding fathers, Jon Postel, as the Clinton administration moved to complete the privatization of the Internet. The U.S. government, which financed the creation of the Internet over several decades, had begun privatizing the network in 1995 by turning over responsibility for domain name registration -- that is, the assigning of Internet addresses -- to a Virginia-based company, Network Solutions Inc. But as Network Solutions' lucrative government-sanctioned monopoly became increasingly controversial, the administration made it a top priority to introduce competition into the registration business -- while also transferring oversight of the Internet to a private international body. While a Commerce Department report last June mapped out the principles and goals for such a body, there were very few specifics spelled out. Icann was set up as a nonprofit organization by Postel, a computer scientist at the University of Southern California who for years administered the address numbering system behind Internet domain names. But he died unexpectedly shortly after the interim board was named last fall, turning unanswered questions about how he selected the members into something of an Internet mystery. Whatever its origins, the interim board now has nine members -- plus the corporation's temporary president, Michael Roberts. In addition to Ms. Dyson, a well-known Internet analyst, publisher and entrepreneur, the board includes telecommunications executives and academics from the United States, Europe, Asia, Australia and Latin America. Though the interim board had been expected to set up the procedures for building up a broad-based Icann membership that might elect a full-time board, the interim group has itself become a policy-making body. Some critics say Icann pushed too far last month in Berlin, when it endorsed in principle recommendations of a report from the World Intellectual Property Organization for cracking down on cybersquatters, the speculators who register and then try to resell popular domain names, and for resolving disputes over who has the right to trademarks registered as Internet addresses. The board referred the report to Icann's domain name committee, which is to recommend ways to meet the goals. But to many, the deck seems stacked in favor of big corporations and trademark holders since a key part of that committee -- members representing noncommercial name holders -- has not yet been appointed by the board. Icann has yet to appoint the at-large members who will elect half of the permanent board. Until a board is elected, Icann is largely responsible only to the Commerce Department, which endorsed its creation and is pushing for quick establishment of dispute-resolution mechanisms so that Icann can set up full-scale competition in the registration business. "There is a lot of pressure to introduce competition," said A. Michael Froomkin, a University of Miami law professor who was on the panel of experts that advised the World Intellectual Property Organization, an arm of the United Nations, in its drafting of the report. In response to that pressure, Froomkin says, voicing a common criticism, Icann is "going fast on the decision making instead of going faster on doing the setting up" of an elected board. Ms. Dyson, however, says Icann is caught between special interest groups: noisy critics crying for the board to slow down and quieter interests with a large stake in the process, who are insisting that the board move faster, particularly to resolve disputes over domain names and trademarks. "It's frustrating to hear 'Let's go slow; let's go fast,"' she said. "I just want to hear legitimate criticism of what we may or may not do. Let's argue it on the merits." Among those leading the charge to put the brakes on Icann's policy making is Network Solutions, which built the international registry for top level domains like .com, .net and .org under its exclusive government contract. It also controls the main server, the so-called root of the Internet, for the global network and built a $25 million shared registry system that is currently being tested with five companies. The first of those companies, Register.com, will begin competing with Network Solutions on Monday. But Network Solutions is still negotiating with the Commerce Department on terms for permanently opening up its registry, the data base of all registered domains, to competitors. The company has refused to apply to become an official Icann registrar when full-scale competition is opened. The company says Icann's licensing terms give the governance body too much regulatory authority, including the ability to cancel a company's accreditation -- and thus its business -- at whim. Network Solutions argues that the interim board should be doing nothing more than setting minimum technical standards for the competing registries. "They have turned what is supposed to be a standards-setting body into a regulatory commission," said Donald L. Telage, the company's senior vice president. Executives from Network Solutions have taken their case to Capitol Hill, where they were working feverishly last week to persuade key members to hold oversight hearings on the actions of both Icann and the Commerce Department. Ms. Dyson and Becky Burr, a senior Commerce Department adviser who is overseeing the formation of Icann, declined to comment on Network Solutions' complaints, citing their continued talks with the company. To be sure, Network Solutions has a great incentive to protect the monopoly it has enjoyed since 1995. But the company is not alone in questioning the interim board's authority for setting permanent policies. "It's a real tricky game," said Dave Farber, a professor of computer science at the University of Pennsylvania and a board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Internet civil liberties group. "You may want an interim agreement, but I don't think that the interim board should put in place anything that is not revocable." He added: "I believe that the mandate that they were given was to form a stable organization representative in some way or another of a community. I don't think they should be making critical decisions that they don't have to." The elected board is not expected to be in place until next spring, and Ms. Dyson said she expected that the decision on adding new domains would be delayed until then. She and her board dismiss much of the criticism as merely a continuation of the contentious debate that has been part of this process for three years. But many critics say the board has brought much of the skepticism on itself. The paucity of details about how the interim board was created has fostered an Internet conspiracy theory that the board is carrying out a hidden agenda. Ms. Dyson takes strong exception to such theories. "When they asked me, they did not ask me to do anything in particular," she said of her being asked to serve on Icann. "I do not represent corporate interests; I represent the little guy." Adding to the mistrust, however, was the board's refusal to hold open board meetings. "Whenever you do things in a smoke-filled room," Farber said, "even if you are the most honest people in the world, people will suspect you are not honest." Copyright 1999 The New York Times Company * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From kv9x at scn.org Wed Jun 9 09:04:24 1999 From: kv9x at scn.org (Brian High) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:04:24 -0700 Subject: Computers become tools against poverty Message-ID: <375E9088.3943030E@scn.org> X-No-Archive: Yes Computers become tools against poverty Copyright © 1999 Nando Media Copyright © 1999 Christian Science Monitor Service By JAMES L. TYSON (June 9, 1999 9:59 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - From a dark doorway marked by a battered sign that read "Market," the neighborhood grocer furnished his "clerks" outside with merchandise too hot for store shelves - heroin and cocaine. The open-air drug market was once the biggest business around Edgewood Terrace, a Washington housing project that until a few years ago was crumbling by the day. But now the pushers are gone, and the store has been renovated into a computer school. As in Edgewood, people in low-income neighborhoods across the United States are starting to seize on computer know-how as a way to pull out of poverty and despair. "There is a nationwide movement gathering steam for community empowerment via technology," says Phil Shapiro, the District of Columbia coordinator for Community Technology Centers' Network, an organization devoted to bringing computer technology into low-income areas. "It's no longer a little fringe kind of movement." The spread of high technology into America's poorest quarters is aided by companies that have set up training centers as part of their community-service programs, and by the state and federal governments. The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) has launched 490 technology centers in poor neighborhoods over the past four years, and 760 more are planned. The Department of Education hopes in the next few years to create 600 similar centers. "We will blanket all of our low-income communities" with technology centers, says Norris Dickard, director of the department's community high-tech program. In an age when 60 percent of all new jobs require some technology skills, many low-wage Americans also are recognizing that, with a little training and a few mouse clicks, they can leap beyond poverty, prejudice, and isolation of the ghetto. Still, poor neighborhoods have far to go before they close the "digital divide" with well-off Americans. The Commerce Department reported last July that the "technology gap" among races and classes is growing. Barriers are high to the spread of technology among the poor, extending beyond scant schooling and funding. The racial gap in high-tech opportunities fuels claims of a "digital apartheid." But for people who are ready and able, the leap to computers and the Internet can be exhilarating - even liberating. "Technology training brings hope into someone's life," says Shapiro. "I've seen people who have developed high-tech skills gain a renewed enthusiasm for living because they are less disenfranchised." Technology can help dispel despair by giving users a sense they can shape their future. It opens up opportunities in education and jobs, experts say. And it can help bolster household incomes and families. But access to high-tech can also boost the community at large. By moving people out of idleness, computer training and resulting jobs can help reduce crime, says Charlie Famuliner, national field director for HUD's Neighborhood Networks program. Consequently, some landlords at low-income apartments have started technology centers at their own expense. People who bring technology to poor neighborhoods insist that a little of training goes a long way. It's not unusual for residents, after less than a year of computer training, to go from joblessness or minimum-wage labor to steady work at $30 an hour, say experts. Take Sharon Pringle. Since completing a five-month software course at Edgewood Terrace, Pringle has tripled her salary to $17.60 an hour. The single mother of two has withdrawn an application for public aid. She has also quit low-pay, day-labor construction work and gained job security, full benefits, and self-confidence by landing a full-time salaried job at the State Department. "The computer class helped me get my first government job," says Pringle. "It helped turn my life completely around." The jump of Edgewood's first graduates from class to computer jobs in 1995 energized the neighborhood. "It sent a shock wave through the community," says Knox McIlwain of the Community Preservation and Development Corporation (CPDC). "All of a sudden people said, 'There is a possibility here, look what they did, that's incredible,' and the connection between technology and renewal was dramatically made." Like many new low-income computer users, Pringle needed encouragement to begin and finish her training. Her 7-year-old daughter introduced her to computers, helping her overcome a sense of intimidation. At one point, Pringle dropped out to take a second job. But urged on by the school director, she interviewed at the State Department, finished the course, and began work last August. Pringle's on-and-off embrace of computers shows that for new technology to take hold in poor neighborhoods, promoters of technology must use old, hands-on methods in social work. "Computer experts tend to look at wiring and software, but we don't realize how much of the old, face-to-face things you have to do," says Bish Sanyal, a professor of city planning at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge. Indeed, CPDC staff provide courses for free or at a pittance. They paper over the neighborhood in promotional fliers. And they try to lure residents to introductory meetings with supermarket coupons. Still, many residents stay away, so classroom space goes to outsiders. Even so, Edgewood's digital devotion is hard to overlook. One recent evening, middle-age residents and their instructor crammed a classroom, riveted to more than a dozen PCs. The Edgewood project and other initiatives in Washington typify the computer efforts springing up in poor communities nationwide. At Edgewood, every apartment will be wired to the Internet and a neighborhood Web site. Another local effort moves mothballed, federally owned PCs out of warehouses and into homes. Once entirely wired, Edgewood will use the Internet as its front stoop, enabling residents to easily learn of local goings-on, find shared interests, and together satisfy neighborhood needs, say CPDC staff. Already, technology and the prospect of a close community have attracted new residents who might otherwise shun a place that was once called "Vietnam." Erika Lomax, a Washington native and recent University of Virginia graduate, moved to Edgewood last September. With Internet communication, "there is a closeness," says Lomax, a city school administrator. "Hopefully we'll have more people at community events and more people taking a leadership role and not just paying rent." http://www.techserver.com/noframes/story/0,2294,57808-92225-657220-0,00.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From steve at advocate.net Thu Jun 10 14:06:09 1999 From: steve at advocate.net (Steve) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:06:09 -0800 Subject: Hackers Message-ID: <199906102009.NAA03519@scn.org> x-no-archive: yes ======================= Should hackers spend years in prison? Stiff penalties for computer trespassing could create a broad new class of criminal -- including you and me. Peter Wayner Salon.com 6/9/99 The FBI recently declared war on those pesky hackers -- again. The news is filled with the story of some group known as Global Hell that is breaking into Web sites and causing mayhem. The FBI is cracking down, confiscating computers and taking names; and some hackers are actually fighting back and shutting down some government Web sites. The press loves hackers because computer crime is something new. (I'm using "hackers" the way the media does, to describe those who get their kicks breaking into computer systems, rather than the older usage describing those who delight in difficult software coding work.) Murder, rape, drug dealing, theft and fraud continue as always, with ups and downs in their rates -- but teenagers breaking into Web sites is something no one has seen before. The problem with the war against hackers is that most of what the hackers are supposedly doing would be trivial if it weren't happening on the Internet. The typical hacker attack on a Web site isn't much different from scrawling graffitti on the outside of a building. Many attackers are just poking around -- like suburban teenagers who hop a fence to jump into a pool. All of this would be great theater and a nice distraction from the war in Kosovo if it weren't inspiring some serious reprisals in the courts -- and some ominous inflation in sentencing that could wind up affecting everyone who uses computers in his or her daily life. Wars on hackers are usually followed by calls for legislators to "do something!" and campaigns for new laws to crack down on the bad guys. The problem is that "doing something" often produces laws that treat the same action much more harshly in cyberspace than in "meatspace." The archetype of the demon hacker is Kevin Mitnick, a young man who has spent more than four years in jail waiting for his trial. When he was arrested, Monica Lewinsky was in her last year of college. During this time, Mitnick and his attorneys have jousted with government lawyers in endless pre-trial maneuvers that seem to have ended recently when Mitnick decided to plead guilty, probably hoping to receive a sentence that would be limited to time served. But even that deal is uncertain and taking forever to evolve; meanwhile, for Mitnick it's just prison without a trial and with no bail. Many, no doubt, see the crackdown on folks like Kevin Mitnick as a great deal for society: Information can be stolen just like anything else; surely the thieves who traffic in such goods should be locked up, just like car-jackers and muggers. But there's also a hidden danger. The precedents that the courts set now for dealing with demons like Mitnick will also apply equally to everyone who follows. And it's not clear that the world is ready for Mitnick-like sentences for the crimes he might have committed, which remain murkily defined. Think about it: Someone who reads another person's Rolodex is just a snoop, but someone who clicks through somebody else's Palm Pilot is hacking a computer database. It's easy to see just how slippery the calculus of evil gets on the cutting edge of technology. 2600 Magazine, The Hacker Quarterly, recently posted letters from computer manufacturers like Sun and Motorola estimating their losses to Mitnick's alleged theft of computer source code. After Mitnick's arrest, he was said to have stolen billions of dollars of information. Some companies calculated their loss by simply listing the hundreds of millions of dollars in development cost of the software affected -- that is, the cost of all the programmers, their computers and other overhead. Other companies were a bit more careful and noted that the value was difficult to judge, but that recalls of products like cell phones could be costly. The problem is, the price tag of information is almost impossible to determine. If Mitnick did take a copy of these companies' source code, the companies weren't denied the use of it, as when a mugger steals cash. Mitnick's lawyers seem ready to point out that the companies involved didn't bother to announce an official price on what they lost to Mitnick -- something that the Securities and Exchange Commission requires public companies to do if the losses are significant enough. That would have required strict accounting measures. To make matters even cloudier, in the meantime, Sun Microsystems began giving away the source code to its operating system to students around the world. In other words, if Mitnick had only waited a few years, enrolled in a university and asked nicely, he might have been a poster boy for Sun's charity instead of a prisoner. Today, Sun is even circulating the source code to products like Java in hope of recruiting customers and snagging bug fixes. The company is practically begging people around the world to come take a look at its code. This big change in the customs and attitudes of the software industry strains the arguments against hackers. If giving away the source code is now a "good thing" for corporations, did Mitnick and the other hackers do a smaller good thing by grabbing it ahead of time? Is Mitnick now a bit closer to being a Robin Hood instead of a demon? If Linux triumphs, will children be told tales of the dark days when the Sheriff of Notingham sat on the boards of all of the corporations and forced them to keep their source code proprietary so only the nobles could enjoy its bounty? Is it true that begging forgiveness is always easier than asking permission? Such questions may be impossible to answer, but they illustrate just how confusing it can be in the nether-netherworld of information's hall of mirrors. As a commodity, information is fundamentally different from objects, and society has always graced it with special respect. The journalists who printed the stories about the allegedly racist words that appeared on a secret audio tape of Texaco employees looked like crusaders. But if it had been a digital tape, the reporters could be painted as hacking data compiled by a Texaco employee on Texaco time. In the long run, society is going to have to think differently about hackers and the crimes with which they are charged. Taking information when it's printed on paper is not always bad, and there's no reason we should change this rule just because the information is stored on a computer disk. The intent of the criminal and the extent of the malice has always played a crucial role in our system of criminal justice. Many owners of things will forgive a theft if the "borrower" merely returns it unharmed. Crimes like trespassing are rarely prosecuted if someone just hops a fence and does no damage. Computers and the Internet continue to frighten people, but prosecuting hackers runs the danger of setting nasty precedents that will begin to snare regular people, not programmers. Many convicted hackers are released from prison only to be denied the ability to use a computer or the Internet. In the past, this made it impossible for a person to get work as a programmer; today, they can't even push the order screen at McDonald's. After all, it's hooked up to a central database -- who knows what havoc a hacker could wreak while punching up an order of fries? One of the best ways to put this all in context is to take yourself back in time 100 years to the turn of the last century, when auto racing was just beginning to roar across the scene. The machines were grand in size and sound if not in speed -- Emile Levassor won the 1895 Paris-Bordeaux race with his four-horsepower jack rabbit that covered the distance at an average speed of 14.9 mph. Feats of technical prowess like that frightened the world, and by 1903 the French government was shutting down auto races -- or restricting the death-defying machines to a bearable 20 mph. A few decades later, James Dean became a rebel automobile hacker who scared parents around the globe. Today, he's just another cutie pie competing with Hanson for poster space on dorm room walls. One era's demon is another's icon. Is teen idol the next stop for Kevin Mitnick? Peter Wayner is the author of "Disappearing Cryptography," "Digital Cash" and "Digital Copyright Protection." Copyright c 1999 Salon Internet Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From jj at scn.org Fri Jun 11 18:04:33 1999 From: jj at scn.org (J. Johnson) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Virus information sources Message-ID: With the news today and yesterday about a new, highly destructive computer virus, there will most likely be a few people e-mailing warnings to friends and associates. While these messages are generally well-intended, it is the uncritical acceptance of such messages by which _hoax_ warnings, such as the infamous "Good Times", are propagated. *No* information which purports to warn about a virus should be accepted as true--and most certainly _not_ passed on!--without being checked with an authoritative source. Two highly recommended authoritative sources are the Computer Information Advisory Center, and the Computer Emergency Response Team Coordination Center. URLs for their web pages are below; these also have links to the web pages of the major anti-virus software vendors. CIAC: http://www.ciac.org/ CERT: http://www.cert.org/ I should point out that the current virus will not damage your files on SCN. You need be concerned only if you meet all three of the following conditions: 1) you download your mail to your own computer (e.g., with POP), 2) you have your mail program set to automatically execute certain programs such as 'zip', and 3) your system is MS Windows. But don't take my word for this--check with an authoritative source. === JJ ================================================================= * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From be718 at scn.org Sat Jun 12 01:09:08 1999 From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 01:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Virus information sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very useful message. Thanks. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, J. Johnson wrote: > > With the news today and yesterday about a new, highly destructive computer > virus, there will most likely be a few people e-mailing warnings to > friends and associates. While these messages are generally well-intended, > it is the uncritical acceptance of such messages by which _hoax_ warnings, > such as the infamous "Good Times", are propagated. *No* information which > purports to warn about a virus should be accepted as true--and most > certainly _not_ passed on!--without being checked with an authoritative > source. Two highly recommended authoritative sources are the Computer > Information Advisory Center, and the Computer Emergency Response Team > Coordination Center. URLs for their web pages are below; these also have > links to the web pages of the major anti-virus software vendors. > > CIAC: http://www.ciac.org/ > CERT: http://www.cert.org/ > > I should point out that the current virus will not damage your files on > SCN. You need be concerned only if you meet all three of the following > conditions: 1) you download your mail to your own computer (e.g., with > POP), 2) you have your mail program set to automatically execute certain > programs such as 'zip', and 3) your system is MS Windows. But don't take > my word for this--check with an authoritative source. > > === JJ ================================================================= > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== > * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From steve at advocate.net Sun Jun 13 12:02:24 1999 From: steve at advocate.net (Steve) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:02:24 -0800 Subject: Web access and disabilities Message-ID: <199906131805.LAA21134@scn.org> Interesting discussion and links: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990613.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From gtruzzi at scn.org Mon Jun 14 12:23:22 1999 From: gtruzzi at scn.org (Gianni Truzzi) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:23:22 -0700 Subject: SCN and Community Networks in THE NATION Message-ID: <376556AA.49A13CB@scn.org> Just noticed that the recent cover story (6/21/99) in THE NATION magazine, "The Net That Binds: Using Cyberspace to Create Real Communities" has a big section talking about Community Networks. It mentions SCN, along with Charlotte's Web, Liberty Net, and others. Nice to be recognized... Take a look at: http://www.thenation.com/issue/990621/0621shapiro.shtml -- Gianni Truzzi * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From be718 at scn.org Tue Jun 15 20:06:55 1999 From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN and Community Networks in THE NATION In-Reply-To: <376556AA.49A13CB@scn.org> Message-ID: Thanks for the "heads up," Gianni. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Gianni Truzzi wrote: > Just noticed that the recent cover story (6/21/99) in THE NATION > magazine, "The Net That Binds: Using Cyberspace to Create Real > Communities" has a big section talking about Community Networks. It > mentions SCN, along with Charlotte's Web, Liberty Net, and others. > > Nice to be recognized... > > Take a look at: > > http://www.thenation.com/issue/990621/0621shapiro.shtml > > -- Gianni Truzzi > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== > * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From douglas Wed Jun 16 15:06:47 1999 From: douglas (Doug Schuler) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Cyberknaves... **the story can now be told** Message-ID: <199906162206.PAA03242@scn.org> "The Cyber-Knave Conspiracy: A Rant for Our Times," A (somewhat) satiric piece I've written, has been published by Telepolis, a German web site. It's available in English at: http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/2944/1.html And in German as: Eine Verschworung von Cybergaunern Eine zeitgenossische Beschimpfung at http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/co/2933/1.html. I think / hope you'll like it. Feel free to share the information with anybody who's somewhat critical and slightly cynical about the future of the Internet. Thanks!!! -- Doug * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From douglas Thu Jun 17 11:59:14 1999 From: douglas (Doug Schuler) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Low power radio resolution -- Let's support this!!!! Message-ID: <199906171859.LAA25375@scn.org> Here is a city resolution introduced by Tina Podlodowski. I think it's GREAT. I suggest contacting other council members and letting them know your support it. -- Doug Resolution Number: 29967 A RESOLUTION requesting the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to adopt rules authorizing the operations of low power FM radio broadcasting. Date introduced/referred: Jun 1, 1999 Date adopted: Jun 7, 1999 Status: ADOPTED Vote: 8-0 (Excused: Choe) Committee: Public Safety, Health & Technology Sponsor: PODLODOWSKI RESOLUTION __________________ A RESOLUTION requesting the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to adopt rules authorizing the operations of low power FM radio broadcasting. WHEREAS, according to the Federal Communications Commission�s (FCC) 1998 Biennial Review of Broadcast Ownership Regulation, during recent years there has been increasing ownership consolidation of radio stations; and WHEREAS, the consolidation has raised the cost of radio stations, making it more difficult for an independent operator to enter the broadcast industry; and WHEREAS, the FCC has recognized the need for community-oriented radio broadcasting; and WHEREAS, on January 28, 1999 the FCC proposed to license new 1000 watt and 100 watt low power FM (LPFM) radio stations, and also sought comment on establishing a third "microradio" class at power levels from 1-10 watts; and WHEREAS, the Citizen�s Telecommunications and Technology Advisory Board (CTTAB) has urged the City to support the establishment of low power FM radio stations, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF SEATTLE, THE MAYOR CONCURRING, THAT: Section 1. The City of Seattle supports the proposed changes to FCC rules that would allow community-based low-power FM radio stations, in order to increase broadcast diversity and expand opportunities for new entrants into radio broadcasting. Section 2. The City of Seattle supports a rule limiting multiple ownership by prohibiting any individual or entity from owning more than one low power FM radio station. Section 3. The City of Seattle urges the FCC to enact rules that will make this new radio service non-commercial and community based. Adopted by the City Council the _____ day of _______________, 1999, and signed by me in open session in authentication of its adoption this _____ day of _______________, 1999. ________________________________________ President of the City Council THE MAYOR CONCURRING: ________________________________________ Paul Schell, Mayor Filed by me this _____ day of _______________, 1999. ________________________________________ City Clerk (Seal) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From douglas Thu Jun 17 12:06:29 1999 From: douglas (Doug Schuler) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: OOPS!!! Message-ID: <199906171906.MAA28176@scn.org> Sorry! As you probably noticed this resolution has already been passed. I guess I should have read the fine print... -- Doug * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From douglas Thu Jun 17 12:09:21 1999 From: douglas (Doug Schuler) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:09:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Wired Magazines, AI Magazines, IEEE Computer - 1st come, 1st served Message-ID: <199906171909.MAA29366@scn.org> In cleaning out my basement I came across a couple of years of Wired, AI, IEEE computer, etc. magazines. I'm going to recycle them if nobody wants them. Please let me know if you want to come over and grab them! There is a lot of great hype in the Wireds!! :-) -- doug * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Fri Jun 18 22:49:05 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred Message-ID: Petition to members and users of Seattle Community Network: Summary: proposal to change the current policies, mission statement, and Bylaws of Seattle Community Network in order to create a virtual governing body and community. I support these changes in SCN to further the goals of equity of access to information and responsibility to the community: 1. SCN Board and volunteers will make it a top priority to conduct the business of the organization on-line. This priority would include: A. Board, coordinators, and leaders assigning tasks, supervising tasks, and reporting on tasks accomplished on-line whether through archived email mailing listservs or posting web and text pages to areas accessible to all. B. Minutes of Board, SCNA business to be posted within a week of meeting times, in web pages and text formats on SCN. C. Board, volunteer coordinators, and volunteer lead people will make monthly reports on-line on correspondence, especially those dealing with paid services, purchased items, and management decisions brought about by a correspondence. Individuals' privacy can be respected in these reports, without leaving out substance. 2. SCN Board and Volunteers, under that priority, will seek every possible innovative means to include every community and community member, with special attention to current discrimination against those who are geographically or technologically limited in participation. For instance: A. On line voting and registration systems should be implemented, including methods of maintaining privacy of votes while verifying participant identity. B. All face to face meeting agendas should routinely be published with enough advance time that virtual attenders can make comments and have them considered at the face to face meeting. C. All persons in positions of authority of any kind should routinely publish reports on their activities via SCN web or text pages. All these should respond to requests for publication of reports from volunteers wishing to know their tasks, agendas, and accomplishments, within one week. 3. SCN Board and volunteers who fail to uphold these priorities through negligence or refusing requests for reports can be dismissed by an on-line petition taken to an SCNA meeting or any regularly held SCN meeting. The petition shall be given the weight of voting in the meeting. 4. This petition is meant to be a statement of general principles and direction of the organization, and not yet a formal wording of changes in Bylaws. Please add any comments you wish to add or discuss when you return the petition. 5. This petition can also be voted on by a quorum of SCNA members at a monthly meeting. If you are willing to attend a meeting for that purpose, please state so. Written by Barb Weismann bb140 at scn.org Please return to me. Add your comments and name below, please. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From nanh at scn.org Sat Jun 19 19:12:36 1999 From: nanh at scn.org (Nan Hawthorne) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:12:36 -0700 Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005601bebac2$5d223fe0$6158cfcf@oemcomputer> Barb, I will read this thoroughly and comment ASAP. Cordially, Nan Hawthorne Co-coordinator, SCN HR Committee nanh at scn.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Flaming retardant: Write e-mail carefully, and read it generously. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb615 at scn.org Tue Jun 22 12:45:13 1999 From: bb615 at scn.org (Rod Clark) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 1. SCN Board and volunteers will make it a top priority to conduct > the business of the organization on-line. ... Barb, Could you go have a look at the Grex (Ann Arbor) community network's online Co-op Conference and see what you think? Some of it's pretty interesting. If you hit Item List, the most recent discussion threads are at the bottom of the page. http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop > A. On line voting and registration systems should be implemented, > including methods of maintaining privacy of votes while verifying > participant identity. The voting program that we currently have works, but it's only for public (e.g. committee) votes and not for secret balloting. It also isn't entirely easy to set up and use. Some of the stumbling blocks are: - Who can vote on a given committee's activities? There still isn't a good list of current volunteers, although that's improving lately, and is likely to get notably better pretty soon. The program reads a voters file of SCN usernames in a committee's directory, to see who's eligible to vote. - Each voter currently must have an SCN account, because the voting program asks the voter to login with an SCN username and password in order to use the voting program. We can't check passwords on remote systems like Hotmail, for people who use (say) someone at hotmail.com addresses. - To set up an online vote with the existing voting program, you have to know how to edit and revise an HTML form. This is more like "data processing" than "drag and drop." Some radio buttons have to be renamed with meaningful names for each vote, like "1-Reorganization" and "2-Redesign," to avoid confusing (say) "Item1" and "Item2" from one vote with those from another vote, in the voting results files. It's not yet possible for every volunteer to do this effortlessly, because of geeky stuff like making sure that the form works right. Well, anyway. More later. Rod Clark * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From steve at advocate.net Wed Jun 23 10:02:00 1999 From: steve at advocate.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:02:00 -0800 Subject: Software Message-ID: <199906231605.JAA08694@scn.org> x-no-archive: yes ==================== Cars and toasters are expected to work. But bad software is a norm, and the industry wants to keep it that way. Charles Palson Boston Globe 6/20/99 The engine in your new car self-destructs after a five-minute drive. The dealer later tells you the manufacturer knowingly produced the defect, but you have to pay for a new engine anyway. That's because the automakers convinced Congress that consumer protection laws would drive up car prices beyond the reach of the average buyer, so the laws were changed to exempt the companies. Sound like B-grade fiction? Unfortunately, the answer is: not for the American software industry. Their intention is clearly stated in the licensing agreement displayed on your monitor when you install new software. Clicking OK means you agree that the manufacturer bears no responsibility for defects. Did you find features that don't work as advertised? Truth-in-advertising laws don't apply. Did the program erase your hard drive? So what. Did the manufacturer have prior knowledge of 95 percent of all the defects beforehand, the industry average? Irrelevant. You might be able to return the product, but your time, whatever it is worth, is lost. It's the law. But not according to some courts, which have recently declared these licenses illegal because they contradict provisions in the Uniform Commercial Code, the grandfather of all consumer-protection laws. The software industry, seeing where this liability could lead, now wants to exclude itself from the minimal consumer protections offered under the code. Its argument? Perfect or error-free software would be either impossible or too expensive to produce. ''Perfect'' was carefully chosen for its emotional effect. After all, everyone knows that achieving perfection is beyond any mortal. But it's a false argument. The Uniform Commercial Code doesn't mention anything about perfection; it states in essence that a product should be fit for ordinary use and conform to printed claims. If other American industries have managed to conform to the code, why should software be any different? Several reputable specialists this writer interviewed don't think it should be. One of these, Ken Johnson, who is director of Minnesota's Rochester Technology Center, a division of D.H. Andrews Inc., and who is a former IBM software executive, is sure that software companies can produce top-quality products. Johnson should know. He helped manage a now legendary project that produced the IBM AS400 computer. A huge effort at the time, the developers delivered on schedule, and any significant defects were fixed in a timely manner. And the price was reasonable. Actually, counting both direct and indirect costs, the AS400 still costs significantly less than comparable products from other companies, and it delivers more reliability. The lesson is that, contrary to what industry spokesmen claim, high quality at reasonable prices is indeed possible. With a few notable exceptions, however, the industry as a whole chooses to continue producing software riddled with defects that often make a mockery of extravagant advertising claims. Microsoft, for example, shows every intention of continuing the practice of publicizing features that don't necessarily work. Not one word on the well-known issue can be found in company president Steve Ballmer's recent lengthy announcement that quality will take center stage. When this writer questioned spokewoman Marla Polenz on the issue, she couldn't find anyone to talk about it. Perhaps nothing more eloquently illustrates the problems in Microsoft than the fact that it cannot readily use its own flagship business product, NT Server, for some mission-critical applications, such as shipping, because it is too unreliable. According to several people close to IBM and Microsoft, the latter uses AS400s when reliability really counts. Gartner Group studies tracking computer reliability say that average downtime for NT Servers is more than a half-hour per day, compared with a fraction of a second for the AS400. That's a lot of lost revenue in a year. But it should be emphasized that this is not just a Microsoft problem. Cem Kaner, lawyer, former software engineer, and nationally known spokesman on software quality, stresses that the great majority of companies knowingly issue software with substantial defects. He, along with many other observers, estimates that software manufacturers already know 95 percent of all the bugs when they put their programs on the market. Why the quality gap between IBM and so many other companies? According to Kaner, the answer in principle is simple: Product quality sometimes takes a back seat to getting products out the door for immediate profit. The whole story, however, is more complex. The problem starts at the beginning of a project when managers invariably underestimate the development time requirements by a wide margin. When the projected completion date arrives, pressure builds from anxious marketing and financial departments that have made commitments based on the promised date. Often, the product is finally released under pressure despite defects. The nature of the problem is well known in the industry. Roger Sherman, former Microsoft director of testing, acknowledged, for example, that bad schedules are responsible for most quality problems. How has IBM largely found a resolution? According to Johnson, the operative word is experience. Lots of it. Key development personnel at IBM have carefully worked in different capacities on many successful projects. These people have acquired through experience the knowledge it takes to make useful time estimates. They know it is a little more expensive to take such necessary measures to produce the first product version, but they also know that, in the long run, it is less expensive because the considerable costs associated with defects drop dramatically. ''The AS400 development team created and still adheres to meticulous quality practices,'' says Johnson. A shift to more reliable software will not be easy. In any industry described by observers as freewheeling, young and brash, the word ''meticulous'' might as well be Sanskrit. Computer science departments don't teach its practical meaning, and most software developers lack even the awareness that quality, accurate scheduling, and reasonable cost are not mutually contradictory. But the point remains: Optimal software quality is doable, and any protestations to the contrary are, well, whining. Without even the currently minimal penalties under the Uniform Commercial Code, the industry would have even less incentive to reform itself. Indeed, some observers, such as Mark Paulk, professor at the computer science department of Carnegie Mellon University, believe that the code should have stricter provisions to increase the penalties for poor software quality. If the industry felt the pain currently only felt by consumers, the pain would be a positive impetus for change. c Copyright 1999 Globe Newspaper Company. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From nanh at scn.org Thu Jun 24 10:18:58 1999 From: nanh at scn.org (Nan Hawthorne) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:18:58 -0700 Subject: FW: VA SCN's Project Reconnect coming --- for you! Message-ID: <002601bebe65$a5483620$2558cfcf@oemcomputer> Please accept my apologies if you have already received this message via vol-announce! And one clarification: the deadlines mentioned below apply only to the "requalifying" volunteer tasks that will be offered as part of Project Reconnect. NH ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ Dear SCN Volunteer: The SCN Human Resources Committee will be sending you an e-mail in a couple weeks that will announce a special project we have undertaken called "Project Reconnect". The purpose of the project is to do something of an "audit" of each volunteer's status in the SCN volunteer program. Even more important, Project Reconnect is designed to offer those of you who have been itching to get involved again but haven't known quite how an easy-to-handle and enjoyable selection of volunteer tasks to take on. YOU DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING YET You don't need to do anything right now --- wait for the official Project Reconnect launch in early July. But as the spearhead of the project, I wanted to introduce myself and let you know what to expect. Just briefly, my name is Nan Hawthorne. I am best known in this area as a consultant, trainer and Internet resource developer on the topic of effective volunteer management. I set up and run CyberVPM.com http://www.cybervpm.com and do contract work as web site content editor and web- and listmaster for a few different organizations. I am partially sighted and use adaptive software, which is why I love the Internet so passionately --- a level playing field, as they say. I'm delighted to have become a part of SCN! PROJECT RECONNECT Now on to the important part: Project Reconnect. We here at SCN have a terrific pool of volunteer talent, skill and enthusiasm to draw from. I have worked with literally thousands of volunteers, and I am very impressed with the skill and dedication I see here! But as the project name implies, it is apparent that many of you have "lain fallow" , so to speak, for a number of reasons. Since there are oodles of things to do and enjoy doing, that is a terrible waste, don't you agree? So the HR Committee has been working hard to set up a way to accomplish both the audit and the reconnection (get it? ) accomplished! THE BASIC PLAN 1. We have already gotten as many of you as we can identify onto this special vol-announce mail list (thanks, Jim!( 2. We are harvesting the names )and e-mail addresses) of more working volunteers all the time by talking to the various team coordinators (hardware, webmasters, help desk, IP, etc.) (Thanks, Mel!) 3. We are also working with these coordinators to cement a _good_ list of roles/tasks in each team and to identify a selection of both short, one-time and ongoing roles/tasks to offer to volunteers who want to reconnect. 4. The upcoming aforementioned e-mail on vol-announce will list this selection, but it will also ask you to choose your volunteer status from among these choices: a. Currently active and assigned (we'll ask you to help us update our information on what your role/task is.) b. Want to reactivate (see item 5) c. Do not want an assignment right now but do want to be added to a pool of reserve volunteers available for special projects or events. d. Want to be considered inactive. We will have a form, set up on the SCN web site where you can easily make your choices. You will have to choose one of these by a certain date (probably mid-August) or we'll assume you want to be considered inactive. 5. For those of you who want to get reconnected, we will ask you to take on one of the list of roles/tasks that I mentioned in item 3 in order to qualify for full active SCN volunteer status. You will have a time period in which to complete your assignment --- probably two-three months. You will stay on this mail list unless you do not complete your assignment. 6. Those of you who don't want to take on a requalifying assignment will be taken off vol-announce and moved to a new mail list, vol-reserve. There you will hear about special projects. 7. Those who want to be considered inactive or who do not respond to our official Project Reconnect announcement will come off all volunteer mail lists with our thanks for all your past help and support. 8. We will contact team coordinators to give them the names of both those who are active and want to reconnect so they can be sure to know who you are and what you want to do. 9. We will ask these coordinators to report what the two of you arrange and whether it works out. 10. Nothing. There is no tenth item. (Sorry, couldn't resist this...) DESIRED OUTCOME Like I said, this is all about being sure that each and every one of you has the opportunity to have the one thing every volunteer wants, no matter who they are or where they volunteer: a chance to be effective in their volunteer work. This can best be accomplished by having an authoritative list of volunteers and as many as want to be actively supporting the work of the organization. Again, you don't need to do anything right now except be on the lookout for the official Project Reconnect launch! Thanks very much! And thanks to the HR Committee! Cordially, Nan Hawthorne, Co-coordinator SCN Human Resources Committee nanh at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * * is for distributing announcements and information to all active SCN volunteers. It is closed and moderated. If you no longer consider yourself to be an active volunteer for SCN, you can be transferred to the mail list where you will still be "in the pool" of SCN volunteers. The mail list is the preferred list for general discussion of SCN issues and topics. *** : Not currently assigned or involved in tasks at SCN to help fulfill SCN's mission, but interested in doing so in the future. is closed and moderated. The mail list is the preferred list for general discussion of SCN issues and topics. *** xx031 at scn.org END * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Thu Jun 24 20:11:18 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) Message-ID: Dear all: I'd like to recommend that we purchase a conferencing program like they have on Grek. I tried it out just a little bit and it looks like fun besides being an excellent way to communicate to one and all. Look at items in: http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop This is what I have always had in my head that scn should be like. They even sound like us. Barb P.s. I will gladly take on some admin duties for the program. My guess is that I won't understand them right off the bat but would be happy to do legwork. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:18:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Rod Clark To: Barb Weismann Subject: RE: Example of how we lose (fwd) > In opening up Grek's items section, was I opening up an archived > listserv, or was this something else entirely? Barb, It's a program developed by a couple of people at the Huron Valley Community Network, that they call BackTalk. http://www.wwnet.net/~janc/backtalk >... How can we get that to go on scn, i.e. if its a listserv > function, will Kurt know how? I know that's always a not answerable > quesiton, I guess I am asking who to start approaching. It's one of many commercial conferencing systems that are available. Their pricing for nonprofits is at or under $500. One of the drawbacks is that each thread has to be created by an administrator, and that (I think) each thread has to have a moderator or admin person. Rod * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From be718 at scn.org Fri Jun 25 00:05:40 1999 From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While I like the idea of a conference software, my input would be that it is not a top priority item. So it would be difficult to justify the effort. However, If the plan to revive volunteers is successful, we might begin to get the first priority stuff done. Then we could look at second and third priority tasks. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > Dear all: > I'd like to recommend that we purchase a conferencing program like they > have on Grek. I tried it out just a little bit and it looks like fun > besides being an excellent way to communicate to one and all. > Look at items in: > http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop > > This is what I have always had in my head that scn should be like. They > even sound like us. > Barb > P.s. I will gladly take on some admin duties for the program. My guess is > that I won't understand them right off the bat but would be happy to do > legwork. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:18:02 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rod Clark > > > To: Barb Weismann > Subject: RE: Example of how we lose (fwd) > > > In opening up Grek's items section, was I opening up an archived > > listserv, or was this something else entirely? > > Barb, > > It's a program developed by a couple of people at the Huron > Valley Community Network, that they call BackTalk. > > http://www.wwnet.net/~janc/backtalk > > >... How can we get that to go on scn, i.e. if its a listserv > > function, will Kurt know how? I know that's always a not answerable > > quesiton, I guess I am asking who to start approaching. > > It's one of many commercial conferencing systems that are > available. Their pricing for nonprofits is at or under $500. One > of the drawbacks is that each thread has to be created by an > administrator, and that (I think) each thread has to have a > moderator or admin person. > > Rod > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From jmabel at saltmine.com Fri Jun 25 07:57:27 1999 From: jmabel at saltmine.com (Joe Mabel) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:57:27 -0700 Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) Message-ID: <01BEBEE0.5E9271C0.jmabel@saltmine.com> Seems to me if we take our middle name seriously (Seattle COMMUNITY Network) conference software should be a pretty high priority. -----Original Message----- From: Rich Littleton [SMTP:be718 at scn.org] Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:06 AM To: Barb Weismann Cc: IP coordinator; Volunteers; scna-board at scn.org; scn at scn.org Subject: RE: Example of how we lose (fwd) While I like the idea of a conference software, my input would be that it is not a top priority item. So it would be difficult to justify the effort. However, If the plan to revive volunteers is successful, we might begin to get the first priority stuff done. Then we could look at second and third priority tasks. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > Dear all: > I'd like to recommend that we purchase a conferencing program like they > have on Grek. I tried it out just a little bit and it looks like fun > besides being an excellent way to communicate to one and all. > Look at items in: > http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop > > This is what I have always had in my head that scn should be like. They > even sound like us. > Barb > P.s. I will gladly take on some admin duties for the program. My guess is > that I won't understand them right off the bat but would be happy to do > legwork. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:18:02 -0700 (PDT) > From: Rod Clark > > > To: Barb Weismann > Subject: RE: Example of how we lose (fwd) > > > In opening up Grek's items section, was I opening up an archived > > listserv, or was this something else entirely? > > Barb, > > It's a program developed by a couple of people at the Huron > Valley Community Network, that they call BackTalk. > > http://www.wwnet.net/~janc/backtalk > > >... How can we get that to go on scn, i.e. if its a listserv > > function, will Kurt know how? I know that's always a not answerable > > quesiton, I guess I am asking who to start approaching. > > It's one of many commercial conferencing systems that are > available. Their pricing for nonprofits is at or under $500. One > of the drawbacks is that each thread has to be created by an > administrator, and that (I think) each thread has to have a > moderator or admin person. > > Rod > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Fri Jun 25 09:36:36 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rich: I saw re-inventing communications as a first priority. I figured the software would be used for Board minutes and feedback. What are your priorities? Barb On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Rich Littleton wrote: > > While I like the idea of a conference software, my input would be that it > is not a top priority item. So it would be difficult to justify the > effort. > > However, > > If the plan to revive volunteers is successful, we might begin to get the > first priority stuff done. Then we could look at second and third priority > tasks. > > Rich > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > > > Dear all: > > I'd like to recommend that we purchase a conferencing program like they > > have on Grek. I tried it out just a little bit and it looks like fun > > besides being an excellent way to communicate to one and all. > > Look at items in: > > http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop > > > > This is what I have always had in my head that scn should be like. They > > even sound like us. > > Barb > > P.s. I will gladly take on some admin duties for the program. My guess is > > that I won't understand them right off the bat but would be happy to do > > legwork. > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:18:02 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Rod Clark > > > > > > To: Barb Weismann > > Subject: RE: Example of how we lose (fwd) > > > > > In opening up Grek's items section, was I opening up an archived > > > listserv, or was this something else entirely? > > > > Barb, > > > > It's a program developed by a couple of people at the Huron > > Valley Community Network, that they call BackTalk. > > > > http://www.wwnet.net/~janc/backtalk > > > > >... How can we get that to go on scn, i.e. if its a listserv > > > function, will Kurt know how? I know that's always a not answerable > > > quesiton, I guess I am asking who to start approaching. > > > > It's one of many commercial conferencing systems that are > > available. Their pricing for nonprofits is at or under $500. One > > of the drawbacks is that each thread has to be created by an > > administrator, and that (I think) each thread has to have a > > moderator or admin person. > > > > Rod > > > > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Fri Jun 25 10:40:34 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: conferencing Message-ID: Rich: Don't knock it before you've looked at it. I tried it on lynx today to see how difficult it it. Not too bad: http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop Barb * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb615 at scn.org Fri Jun 25 10:51:23 1999 From: bb615 at scn.org (Rod Clark) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: conferencing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I tried it on lynx today to see how difficult it it. Not too bad: > http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop Barb, That's the "pistachio" (non-Lynx) version. There's also a vanilla version that you can choose if you go to their site and use the menus. The reason I didn't post the URL for the vanilla version is that on one of them, I forget which (cyberspace.org or hvcn.org) the vanilla version crashed every time I tried it the other day. The programmers are obviously trying hard, but this particular program is used on only a very small number of sites, and it might ort might not be the best choice in terms of low admin reqiurements, ease of installation and program maintenence and some other things. Rod * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Fri Jun 25 10:57:24 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Lobby group idea Message-ID: Dear scners: I came up with this idea to try to find a way to focus our efforts in getting change and getting things done on scn. Some of us have pretty strong agendas. Those agendas take Board decisions and the cooperation of Volunteer Coordinators and IP Coordinators, etc. Right now, we try and hit all of them at once, and no one takes the buck. I suggest we form lobby groups surrounnding very specific issues. For instance, mine might be purchasing and setting up conferencing. I would "represent" this idea, and work with those who want to decide things, to make up a simple proposal. This part of the work would be input and meeting-related, especially if the idea is complex, like "increase fund raising activities at scn." This work group would go to the general group to get sign ons, those interested in having the idea come to pass. At this point, the general scn public would have to either accept or reject the proposal, not offer suggestions. If an idea got 10 to 12 supporters, beyond the original workers, then it would be taken to the Board, and to the monthly meeting. If it got no support, it would be re-worked or tabled. The monthly meeting could ratify interest on the proposal, and ask the Board to accept it at their next meeting. If the Board could not accept it, we would ask that they make positive statements as to why they could not support it, including the things that must be done first in order for them to be able to accept it. i.e. they can't just say no, they have to provide the lobby group with alternatives. If the Board failed to review the proposals, well, we can use our lack of interaction as the means of voting them out as Board. This is rather like the "initiative" process in place in our state governments to allow people to make law. It is supposedly used when legislators are not following the will of the people. It is as you know also used for initiatives which legislators are not willing to touch. I would like to keep the idea informal, for instance, I don't think it's a good idea to start making up rules as to how many people have to sign on to a proposal before it goes to the Board. In some cases, three might have to do it, because only three have the expertise to understand the problem, like that. What do you think? Barb * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From be718 at scn.org Fri Jun 25 23:24:56 1999 From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton) Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) In-Reply-To: <01BEBEE0.5E9271C0.jmabel@saltmine.com> Message-ID: Joe & Barb, I agree that conferencing software is good, it's just that there are some basic things that are "gooder." However, if either, or both of you, have an in on this conferencing stuff, maybe a demonstration to the hardware committee (or to excomm) would be effective. Actually, it often happens that progress is made by just hopping onto an idea without waiting for the powers-that-be to give the nod. For my part, I'm more interested in information flow FROM the board and from excomm so the COMMUNITY can know what the hell is going on. Good luck. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Joe Mabel wrote: > Seems to me if we take our middle name seriously (Seattle COMMUNITY Network) conference software should be a pretty high priority. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich Littleton [SMTP:be718 at scn.org] > Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 12:06 AM > To: Barb Weismann > Cc: IP coordinator; Volunteers; scna-board at scn.org; scn at scn.org > Subject: RE: Example of how we lose (fwd) > > > While I like the idea of a conference software, my input would be that it > is not a top priority item. So it would be difficult to justify the > effort. > > However, > > If the plan to revive volunteers is successful, we might begin to get the > first priority stuff done. Then we could look at second and third priority > tasks. > > Rich > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** > > On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > > > Dear all: > > I'd like to recommend that we purchase a conferencing program like they > > have on Grek. I tried it out just a little bit and it looks like fun > > besides being an excellent way to communicate to one and all. > > Look at items in: > > http://www.cyberspace.org/cgi-bin/bt/pistachio/confhome?conf=coop > > > > This is what I have always had in my head that scn should be like. They > > even sound like us. > > Barb > > P.s. I will gladly take on some admin duties for the program. My guess is > > that I won't understand them right off the bat but would be happy to do > > legwork. > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:18:02 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Rod Clark > > > > > > To: Barb Weismann > > Subject: RE: Example of how we lose (fwd) > > > > > In opening up Grek's items section, was I opening up an archived > > > listserv, or was this something else entirely? > > > > Barb, > > > > It's a program developed by a couple of people at the Huron > > Valley Community Network, that they call BackTalk. > > > > http://www.wwnet.net/~janc/backtalk > > > > >... How can we get that to go on scn, i.e. if its a listserv > > > function, will Kurt know how? I know that's always a not answerable > > > quesiton, I guess I am asking who to start approaching. > > > > It's one of many commercial conferencing systems that are > > available. Their pricing for nonprofits is at or under $500. One > > of the drawbacks is that each thread has to be created by an > > administrator, and that (I think) each thread has to have a > > moderator or admin person. > > > > Rod > > > > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== > * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From be718 at scn.org Sat Jun 26 00:49:30 1999 From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > Rich: > What are your priorities? > ---------------- Whew! That question opens worlds of responses. Let me answer that, and then I'll suggest that we might not get to do anyone's priority list. Rich's Priority List 1. Recruit volunteers. This involves several aspects, including giving volunteers real benefits, providing a "hovering" volunteer coordinating agency to monitor, motivate and manage volunteer activities (the 3 Ms), and TRAIN THE VOLUNTEERS so they understand the need to serve the community. The Volunteer Committee has been revitalized by the presence of Nan Hawthorne and optomism burns brightly in beating breasts. (Not bad, for off the cuff aliteration!) 2. Improve our E-mail Offering We need to get a graphical (GUI) e-mail program of quality. One the largest services SCNA provides is e-mail. But it is an uncomfortable product for too many. I just learned that our planned PPP connection as a solution to this need will not really do the job because it will allow only 40 connections at a time. We should contact techies from other free nets that have GUI e-mail and find out how those free nets deliver e-mail products. [BTW, this would automatically affect the help desk effort. We would have LESS (tho still some) need for the help desk. We should be giving enough effort to building our e-mail teaching program that we would automatically create a huge pool of help desk people.] 3. Establish Universal Voting for the Board We now rely on voting by those who show up at a meeting on only one night in the year. That is not democratic and not necessay. We should have mailin ballots. I think we should have electronic voting, though some of the techies worry about security. But we don't have security in the current method. But, whether by mail or by electron, we have to start having voting available to all the SCNA members. This implies also implementing a forum in which debate, discussion, and defiance (I needed a third D) can occur publically, so voters can see candidate attitude. Related to this is the need to have both (*) advanced notice of board meeting agendas (so the membership knows what is to be discussed), and (*) the rapid production and distribution of minutes. Without these information tools, there is little relationship between the board and the membership. 4. Fundraising We need to see what IRS regulations will permit and try to get benefits for people to sign up with scnA. Right now there is not real benefit, and SCNA is quaking at the risk of making the same mistake made by Eugene, OR. So let's go find out! We also need some of our new volunteers to set up a fundraising group (forget the Board). The group should probably be a handful of grant writers. (This is why # 1 is #1: We need to get qualified volunteers to do ANYTHING.) 5. Revitalize our IP program We we should be the IP site of choice. This is the second-most important function (depending) SCNA provides. The Speakeasy Cafe has done a lot of this (the Seattle City Council member, Nick Lacitas, uses Speakeasy (not SCN) for his newsletter to the public.), and we could do more. HOWEVER, it must be said that SCN has done a lot here already. (That's why it is rated #2 in the community service evaluation.) This is by no means a negative area for SCNA. It has slowed up a lot lately, but it is an area where SCNA can serve to community better. Perhaps we can re-kindle our relationship with the Seattle Public Library by offering to teach WEB site classes -- but, that then runs into the near-fatal fact that we don't have graphical capablities so we can't show the user what s/he has built. These 5 prioritized goals should get us started. ***************** Here's where I raise the question that we might not get to implement any priority list. SCNA is not setting goals and priorities. (I've asked for the SCNA priority list several times.) The importance of this is that SCNA Board decisions are not being guided by a clear, known-to-all, measurable list of what the organization is all about. Should e-mail be more important than Web hookup? (dunno) Should SCNA invest in conferencing software? (dunno) Should SCNA implement GUI e-mail? (dunno) Should SCNA offer a graphical browser (making appropriate system changes)? (dunno) Could SCNA provide benefits that increase fund increasing? (dunno) We are falling out of favor with librarians. We COULD lose our piggyback onto SPL's hookup to the internet if (a) we do offer graphical capabilities and (b) a commercial ISP challenges our competing by means of piggybacking on the PUBLIC library bandwidth. So, should we explore funding to operate independently of SPL? SCNA does not know what it wants to do. Our lack of clarity about our mission and/or role in the community delays decisions, which in turn delay action, which threatens our prestige still more. Obviously, mission decisions change the priority list. If SCN decides it cannot provide GUI e-mail, then the e-mail priority item above (#2) must be stricken from the list. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From steve at advocate.net Sat Jun 26 15:51:33 1999 From: steve at advocate.net (Steve) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:51:33 -0800 Subject: Spam Message-ID: <199906262154.OAA15856@scn.org> One way to deal with spam - http://spamcop.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From grayfox at foxinternet.net Sat Jun 26 20:02:55 1999 From: grayfox at foxinternet.net (Kenneth Crandall) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:02:55 -0700 Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred References: Message-ID: <003f01bec049$ac9bf480$8ad308d0@ken> Hi Barb, I am Kenneth Crandall, an IP volunteer. My gut feel is that your proposal is an overkill and could lead to many volunteers saying the "paper work" (albeit on-line) is just too much (see additional details below). However, I feel that there is merit to your objectives. A better definition of the type of tasks (specific job requirements and/or the opportunity to get on-job training) to support SCN's goals and an indication of the priorities and current status of major efforts might induce some of us to either attend meetings or to respond by providing additional time volunteering for tasks that interest us. Meeting agendas are useful since busy people will attend meetings that are particularly interested in but do not like to spend time in general meetings. I also believe that some form of information from the board and other active bodies outlining the current and proposed projects that SCN is involved in would also bring other "sometimes" volunteers (like myself) into a more active role. I have always preferred to be given responsibility for a task and then to complete it with additional guidance or help if necessary. I will take responsibility for a mutually agreed schedule but I have never liked to spend great efforts trying to keep everybody informed about what I am doing. This in-work reporting often took more effort than the task itself. It is from this aspect that I believe that your proposal would drive away prospective volunteers. (see your items 1A, 1C, and 2C) The penalty for not meeting these publishing demands (your item 3) would certainly add new meaning to the old "Publish or Perish" axiom for universities professors. You obviously have reasons for believing that increased communication between the SCN leadership and volunteers is needed. (I myself believe that it would increase volunteerism). I therefore assume that you have specific examples where the lack on communications has impacted your ability to fulfill the role with SCN that you want to accomplish. To address the "paper work" concerns of potential volunteers like myself, it would be beneficial to examine the specific communication problems instances that have impacted you, and then ask, how could I have received the necessary information with a minimal impact on the person I wanted the information from. Then using this "minimal impact" model, define proposed policy or bylaw changes. I hope these thoughts are useful to you. Kenneth Crandall ----- Original Message ----- From: Barb Weismann To: ; ; Sent: Friday, June 18, 1999 10:49 PM Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred > Petition to members and users of Seattle Community Network: > > Summary: proposal to change the current policies, mission statement, and > Bylaws of Seattle Community Network in order to create a virtual > governing body and community. > > I support these changes in SCN to further the goals of equity of access to > information and responsibility to the community: > > 1. SCN Board and volunteers will make it a top priority to conduct the > business of the organization on-line. This priority would include: > A. Board, coordinators, and leaders assigning tasks, supervising tasks, > and reporting on tasks accomplished on-line whether through archived email > mailing listservs or posting web and text pages to areas accessible to > all. > B. Minutes of Board, SCNA business to be posted within a week of meeting > times, in web pages and text formats on SCN. > C. Board, volunteer coordinators, and volunteer lead people will make > monthly reports on-line on correspondence, especially those dealing with > paid services, purchased items, and management decisions brought about by > a correspondence. Individuals' privacy can be respected in these reports, > without leaving out substance. > > 2. SCN Board and Volunteers, under that priority, will seek every > possible innovative means to include every community and community member, > with special attention to current discrimination against those who are > geographically or technologically limited in participation. For instance: > A. On line voting and registration systems should be implemented, > including methods of maintaining privacy of votes while verifying > participant identity. > B. All face to face meeting agendas should routinely be published with > enough advance time that virtual attenders can make comments and have them > considered at the face to face meeting. > C. All persons in positions of authority of any kind should routinely > publish reports on their activities via SCN web or text pages. All these > should respond to requests for publication of reports from volunteers > wishing to know their tasks, agendas, and accomplishments, within one > week. > > 3. SCN Board and volunteers who fail to uphold these priorities through > negligence or refusing requests for reports can be dismissed by an on-line > petition taken to an SCNA meeting or any regularly held SCN meeting. The > petition shall be given the weight of voting in the meeting. > > 4. This petition is meant to be a statement of general principles and > direction of the organization, and not yet a formal wording of changes in > Bylaws. Please add any comments you wish to add or discuss when you > return the petition. > > 5. This petition can also be voted on by a quorum of SCNA members at a > monthly meeting. If you are willing to attend a meeting for that purpose, > please state so. > > Written by Barb Weismann > bb140 at scn.org > Please return to me. > Add your comments and name below, please. > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== > * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Sun Jun 27 16:25:08 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rich wrote: > For my part, I'm more interested in information flow FROM the board and > from excomm so the COMMUNITY can know what the hell is going on. Barb agress: Me too, Rich. I guess it is naive of me to think that if we offer them some interesting alternatives for communication, that they will actually use them. Barb * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Sun Jun 27 16:37:56 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Barb sez: I agree with all these, I even think the order is pretty good. Please,however, remember Nan talking about "volunteer coordination" when she began, and as she reiterates; VC is a profession. So is fund raising' professional fund raisers are called development directors. We do not need volunteer grant writers. Grant writing should account for 20 percent or less of an org's annual income. You ask, well then where does the other 80 percent come from? and I say, you see, development director is a profession. We answer that question by doing. Which is not to say development directors don't plan. An organization without a fund raising plan is losing revenue opportunties. SCN has lost revenue opportunities since it started. Barb On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Rich Littleton wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > > > Rich: > > > What are your priorities? > > > ---------------- > > Whew! That question opens worlds of responses. > > Let me answer that, and then I'll suggest that we might not get to do > anyone's priority list. > > Rich's Priority List > > 1. Recruit volunteers. > This involves several aspects, including giving volunteers real > benefits, providing a "hovering" volunteer coordinating agency to monitor, > motivate and manage volunteer activities (the 3 Ms), and TRAIN THE > VOLUNTEERS so they understand the need to serve the community. > > The Volunteer Committee has been revitalized by the presence of > Nan Hawthorne and optomism burns brightly in beating breasts. (Not bad, > for off the cuff aliteration!) > > 2. Improve our E-mail Offering > We need to get a graphical (GUI) e-mail program of quality. One > the largest services SCNA provides is e-mail. But it is an uncomfortable > product for too many. I just learned that our planned PPP connection as a > solution to this need will not really do the job because it will allow > only 40 connections at a time. We should contact techies from other free > nets that have GUI e-mail and find out how those free nets deliver e-mail > products. [BTW, this would automatically affect the help desk effort. > We would have LESS (tho still some) need for the help desk. We should be > giving enough effort to building our e-mail teaching program that we would > automatically create a huge pool of help desk people.] > > 3. Establish Universal Voting for the Board > We now rely on voting by those who show up at a meeting on only > one night in the year. That is not democratic and not necessay. We > should have mailin ballots. I think we should have electronic voting, > though some of the techies worry about security. But we don't have > security in the current method. But, whether by mail or by electron, we > have to start having voting available to all the SCNA members. This > implies also implementing a forum in which debate, discussion, and > defiance (I needed a third D) can occur publically, so voters can see > candidate attitude. > Related to this is the need to have both (*) advanced notice of > board meeting agendas (so the membership knows what is to be discussed), > and (*) the rapid production and distribution of minutes. Without these > information tools, there is little relationship between the board and the > membership. > > 4. Fundraising > We need to see what IRS regulations will permit and try to get > benefits for people to sign up with scnA. Right now there is not real > benefit, and SCNA is quaking at the risk of making the same mistake made > by Eugene, OR. So let's go find out! > > We also need some of our new volunteers to set up a fundraising > group (forget the Board). The group should probably be a handful of grant > writers. (This is why # 1 is #1: We need to get qualified volunteers to > do ANYTHING.) > > 5. Revitalize our IP program > We we should be the IP site of choice. This is the second-most > important function (depending) SCNA provides. The Speakeasy Cafe has done > a lot of this (the Seattle City Council member, Nick Lacitas, uses > Speakeasy (not SCN) for his newsletter to the public.), and we could do > more. HOWEVER, it must be said that SCN has done a lot here already. > (That's why it is rated #2 in the community service evaluation.) This is > by no means a negative area for SCNA. It has slowed up a lot lately, but > it is an area where SCNA can serve to community better. Perhaps we can > re-kindle our relationship with the Seattle Public Library by offering to > teach WEB site classes -- but, that then runs into the near-fatal fact > that we don't have graphical capablities so we can't show the user what > s/he has built. > > These 5 prioritized goals should get us started. > > ***************** > > Here's where I raise the question that we might not get to > implement any priority list. > > SCNA is not setting goals and priorities. (I've asked for the > SCNA priority list several times.) The importance of this is that SCNA > Board decisions are not being guided by a clear, known-to-all, measurable > list of what the organization is all about. Should e-mail be more > important than Web hookup? (dunno) Should SCNA invest in conferencing > software? (dunno) Should SCNA implement GUI e-mail? (dunno) Should SCNA > offer a graphical browser (making appropriate system changes)? (dunno) > Could SCNA provide benefits that increase fund increasing? (dunno) > > We are falling out of favor with librarians. We COULD lose our > piggyback onto SPL's hookup to the internet if (a) we do offer graphical > capabilities and (b) a commercial ISP challenges our competing by means of > piggybacking on the PUBLIC library bandwidth. So, should we explore > funding to operate independently of SPL? > > SCNA does not know what it wants to do. Our lack of clarity about > our mission and/or role in the community delays decisions, which in turn > delay action, which threatens our prestige still more. > > Obviously, mission decisions change the priority list. If SCN > decides it cannot provide GUI e-mail, then the e-mail priority item above > (#2) must be stricken from the list. > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Sun Jun 27 17:15:13 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred In-Reply-To: <003f01bec049$ac9bf480$8ad308d0@ken> Message-ID: Dear Kenneth: Yes, this reply was helpful. A few comments: KC writes: > I have always preferred to be given responsibility for a task and then to > complete it with additional guidance or help if necessary.... > This in-work reporting often took more effort than the task itself. B: I agree. Perhaps it wasn't clear enough that I expect reports of your supervisor/lead person on the project/committee head. I don't think everyone needs to do them. If you were given a complex task requring multiple decisions and expenditure of funds, yes, I would ask that you report. I had many more reasons for wanting reports than to increase volunteer inerest and investment. They include: --requirements in the Bylaws are not being met. --Non-profit practices requires that Board minutes be kept, as well as Board committee assignments and attendance records. These probably do not impact an organization legaly, but they would schould SCN ever want to ask foundations for a grant or meet an RFP from the government. These are always required. --Members want to know how their governance is proceeding, in order to make choices of their elected offocers next year. --On principle: I don't think we can call ourselves a democratic organization without them. --My belief is that lack of information hinders growth--of both the individual within his or her role, and the organization as a whole. Per your request on coming up with examples: --I just sent round an email in which the basic question was, "is it true that the IP coordinator is recruting mentors?" ie. no report from the IP coordinator, then this person could not volunteer for a task she wanted to do. --Did you see Rich's priority list? I would like to know if these are the same priorities as the Board has, and besides, that, what we are finding as the roadblocks to meeting those goals. Mel wrote one report on recruitment, but this was only sent to a few people I think. Otherwise, I have heard nothing. --Asking for examples of how we, the organization, and the community is suffering because of lack of communication is rather like asking an orphan to say what he or she has missed in life by not having parents. S/he hasn't had the experience, but knows himself/herself to have suffered. But its guesswork. Thanks for your reply. Barb * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From allen at scn.org Sun Jun 27 21:08:02 1999 From: allen at scn.org (allen) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example of how we lose (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Rich Littleton wrote: > 2. Improve our E-mail Offering > We need to get a graphical (GUI) e-mail program of quality. One > the largest services SCNA provides is e-mail. But it is an uncomfortable > product for too many. I just learned that our planned PPP connection as a > solution to this need will not really do the job because it will allow > only 40 connections at a time. We should contact techies from other free > nets that have GUI e-mail and find out how those free nets deliver e-mail > products. [BTW, this would automatically affect the help desk effort. > We would have LESS (tho still some) need for the help desk. We should be > giving enough effort to building our e-mail teaching program that we would > automatically create a huge pool of help desk people.] > Rich. I do not know what you mean by this? Do you still not understand the difference between what is running on SCN machines and what is running on user machines? With PPP access, a user connecting via that mode will be able to run any e-mail program they want...this is not about what "scn uses for e-mail. Most of the internet uses the same program for e-mail that we do. GUI e-mail programs will be whatever the user chooses for their own use. We already have Eudora available for download. and Webmail for those that want that. I am really unsure what you are asking for here...and suspect you are also. Perhaps it would be helpful if you described in detail what you mean from a user perspective. Oh, BTW, as I understand it (may be incorrect on this) PPP connections would be limited to 40 only if all phone lines were made available for that usage...it may be less than that if a separate # is used for PPP connections...which are only available thru direct dial-up access. I don't see this as a problem at this point...very rarely (if ever) are all 40 modem connections in use at any particular time. > 3. Establish Universal Voting for the Board all SCNA members will be able to vote in the next election, whether or not they come to the general meeting. This process is in the works and has been for several months. It will be by snail mail for security and legal reasons. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From ttrim at scn.org Mon Jun 28 15:59:00 1999 From: ttrim at scn.org (Terry Trimingham) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > --Asking for examples of how we, the organization, and the community is > suffering because of lack of communication is rather like asking an orphan > to say what he or she has missed in life by not having parents. S/he > hasn't had the experience, but knows himself/herself to have suffered. But > its guesswork. It doesn't have to be guesswork. I was a mentor, and think I still am. However, no communications at all from the IP/Mentor coordinators. Email I have sent is not answered, things are posted to a list every few months, I email questions back and get no reply. Discussions come on lists, I ask questions, no reply. I am currently in contact with IP's that I have mentored in the past, but nothing new for over a year now. In effect the lack of communication has kept me out of the loop. Terry * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From nanh at scn.org Mon Jun 28 16:32:21 1999 From: nanh at scn.org (Nan Hawthorne) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:32:21 -0700 Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005b01bec1be$782b4040$0b58cfcf@oemcomputer> I have to ask this: Is it really productive to criticize the work of individual volunteers on all these lists? Would any of you who have singled out individual volunteers for public criticism feel very good about the same being done about you? I'm embarrassed to read some of this. And discouraged to see it. There are assertive and cooperative ways to solve problems. What if instead of going after folks in a public arena we discuss _appropriate_ ways to resolve problems in an all-volunteer organization? We might start by listing what we'd each hope others did when concerned that we are not doing _our_ part right. I suggest we all follow Rod's example and provide clear, succinct and civil and un-personalized responses and questions. Nan Hawthorne Co-coordinator, Human Resources * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb615 at scn.org Mon Jun 28 17:18:00 1999 From: bb615 at scn.org (Rod Clark) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred In-Reply-To: <005b01bec1be$782b4040$0b58cfcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > I suggest we all follow Rod's example and provide clear, succinct > and civil and un-personalized responses and questions. Nan, Well, I have been known to flame the troglodytes from time to time, and otherwise not play well with others occasionally. But I hope on balance it's positive. It is emotionally easier and more fun when everyone tries to keep things level. I'm sure that at times people have just stopped being volunteers one fine Tuesday afternoon because of not feeling appreciated. Not everyone's feelings can be be wrapped up neatly or expected to be constantly cheerful in such a non-organized outfit as this (and some people volunteering with SCN are avowed anarchists), but I hope that whatever personal black clouds may be hovering over people's noggins sometimes because of SCN stuff aren't too long-lasting. This would be a good time to mention the picnic. Rod * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From xx029 at scn.org Tue Jun 29 06:05:06 1999 From: xx029 at scn.org (IP coordinator) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 06:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IP & Mentor Program Status Message-ID: We have been reporting on the IP and Mentor program at the different monthly meetings we attend. The minutes for those have not been put out yet, and there's been some expression of concern about the IP program, so here's a summary of the program's current status. NEW IPs SIGNUPS New IPs are signing up through the online form at a rate of about 4-6 per week. The process for creating their accounts and directories has been streamlined. In general, the turn around from the time of request to when the IP's setup is ready to use is about one week. We have had a few (including Jean Buskin recently) who have gone from request to completed web pages within one week. Others have taken longer, particularly because of delays with mailing lists. We are expecting to have Shirley Bishop Inc (SBI) start handling the welcome letters (taking one small piece off Robert Katz's very large plate of registration activities). When done through SBI, the welcome letters will go out once a week on Tuesdays, so the turn around time may be a few days longer for some and shorter for others, based on how close to Tuesday the request came in. Batching account setup in this way is expected to significantly ease the burden on the volunteers doing setup activities. The current setup activities go like this: a new IP submits the online form which Steve/Rod/Robert receive. If Steve raises no red flag with the type of IP (e.g. not a commercial company from Chicago trying to sell stuff or some such), then Robert creates the account, issues the welcome letter and informs Steve/Rod it's been done. Rod creates the requested web space, and sends a long informative email to the new account about how to create and upload their first web pages on SCN. A week or so after the IP is likely to have received the welcome letter, Steve has been calling to check in with the IP, and see if they need any initial help. Steve spent several weeks putting a lot of new pages together to replace the existing IP-signup pages, but there were some complaints with them - Rod & Barb, can you remember what it was you didn't like? They're up online at http://www.scn.org/help/steves.ip.pages/ and ipinfo-top.html is the front page (I've revised this one quite a bit at home in another file - can upload it if someone else wants to proof it). MENTOR PROGRAM There have been few requests for mentors in all the online requests, and we have a couple of explanations: 1 - New IPs are coming to us through the web site, so are already familiar with the web (if we were actively doing outreach to non-web-savvy IPs there might be a much higher demand for mentors). 2 - Steve has been answering most of their questions during his initial phone call. For the few IPs who have requested mentors, mentors have been assigned based on a match of interests, availability and type of IP need. Only mentors and other volunteers who have recently expressed an interest in continuing to do this have been contacted and the request for mentor has not been put out to a list because we wanted to ensure more well considered matches. When we started, many mentors and IPs complained about how abysmal the mentoring experience had been for them - lots of unrealized expectations - we wanted to avoid continuing with that because it only frustrated and burned out everyone involved. HTML CLASSES While a few people have been interested in having an HTML class, we have not tried starting one from scratch. We have referred a number of people to King County Library's NetMasters program - a well conceived free class given by the library in exchange for a commitment from students to teach in the future. We haven't had a chance to take it ourselves, and have not heard from anyone about it - if you know more please let us know. We think that, in keeping with SCNA's 501c3 status as an education nonprofit, it might make very good sense to offer HTML classes to the public. As desirable as we find this, we agreed with the rest of the board members during the annual retreat in February that the first priority we all had was fixing the existing systems within SCN/A before we launch any new projects. We have asked a number of new and old volunteers about their interest in developing an HTML class but so far have had no takers. If you know someone who might be interested in investing some time in this, please give them our contact info, or tell us about them and we'll ask them directly. TAKING CARE OF CURRENT IPs We have an urgent need to communicate with our existing IPs, hence the current MOTD recruitment message. We want to talk with the existing IPs about what we currently have available for their use, and survey them to find out more about what they want and what benefit they currently feel they get from SCN. Lots more stuff waiting to happen here - needing a team of volunteers and a coordinated effort. Current IPs who need help are getting it through help at scn.org and through Steve directly, whose technical background allows him to answer even very difficult system questions. One of the most enjoyable aspects of working in help is the positive responses that sometimes come back from users and IPs who have been helped. We are getting many more of those type of responses than complaints - especially from long time SCNers who cannot believe the responsiveness they're now getting. SPREAD THE WORD Even with the improvements, though, there are people in the community who have had bad impressions of SCN (the historical lack of timely or any response to reg requests, or help). If you talk with anyone who could benefit from SCN's services, but is gun-shy of wasting time trying to get through the process, you can have them call us directly and we will personally walk them through the process. The personal interactions have been making a huge difference. Also, things are not yet perfect (nor are they ever likely to be in the real world!) - if you know of anyone who has had a recent problem with SCN, we would also be happy to help try to improve their experience, and try to fix whatever caused the problem for them so that others don't suffer the same way. Having users/IPs with "squeaky wheel" needs can sometimes help move along an improvement already identified. It'd be easiest for us to talk with you by phone, and answer your questions interactively (and we'd be happy to, especially if you'd like to get more involved in helping with the IP program). If you really can't stand phoning, please send email directly to us with your questions, and we'll try to answer them as best we can, when we can. Please understand if responding to your questions about what we're doing falls lower on our list of priorities than taking care of our other commitments - it will certainly move higher if you're asking not just because you want to know, but because you want to help. Once a few volunteers have signed up and we're back from our travels in England (July 26 - Aug 15), we're planning to launch a real IP Program Team (including a first meeting), especially focused on getting in touch with the existing IPs. Let us know if you want to be part of that meeting (no commitment immediately necessary) by sending email to xx029 at scn.org. Thanks for reading this far. Hope the several hours I've just spent writing and rewriting it were worth it ;-) - Mel (& Steve, Rod & Robert) IP & Mentor Program Team -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- Melissa and Steve Guest (425) 653 7353 Seattle Community Network http://www.scn.org "Supporting People and Communities with Free Internet Services" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From nanh at scn.org Tue Jun 29 10:26:17 1999 From: nanh at scn.org (Nan Hawthorne) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:26:17 -0700 Subject: The importance of having civility as a standard for volunteers (was RE: Revisit number forty two hundred) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01bec254$7efe77c0$4a58cfcf@oemcomputer> Rod, in your e-mail, you say: > Well, I have been known to flame the troglodytes from time to time, and otherwise not play well with others occasionally. But I hope on balance it's positive. ..... Not everyone's feelings can be be wrapped up neatly or expected to be constantly cheerful in such a non-organized outfit as this Cheerful is not required, but civil always is. It is ten times easier to "bite your tongue" with e-mail conversations than in person --- just hesitate over the SEND button. Remember my perspective is as a professional trainer, wrriter, consultant and practitioner of volunteer program management. There are guidelines for volunteers to circumscribe their behavior and actions for a good reason, both because they are representatives of the group as a whole and because the experience for each volunteer is vital. There is nothing in the world more discouraging to a volunteer than working hard only to discover that someone is criticizing them behind their backs or at very least without the courtesy of doing it in a formal, acceptable way. If flaming is to be considered an acceptable response by volunteers in SCN, then I cannot be involved in the management of the volunteer program and still abide by my professional ethics. If any of you find that statement "haughty", sobeit. My conscience is my own territory. Consider your own work and how important its standards are to you. I'm sorry, Rod, but this license to flame and the excessive personalization of SCN operations and disputes is exactly what I think drags SCN down and makes the problems develop. Everyone seems to be fair game here: then others wonder why burnout is rife, why it's hard to get and keep good volunteers, why quality suffers, why there is never enough help for projects, etc. etc. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the poor communications are as much from fear of the response as these other factors I just cited. I was brought in from outside this organization expressly to help it out of some of its problems. OK, here's what I would've told you for $3000 if I had not waived my fee: start acting like a community-oriented business. And that goes for everyone. Nan Hawthorne, co-coordinator HR Committee * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From xx015 at scn.org Tue Jun 29 14:06:04 1999 From: xx015 at scn.org (SCNA Volunteer Coordinator) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The importance of having civility as a standard for volunteers (was RE: Revisit number forty two hundred) In-Reply-To: <000c01bec254$7efe77c0$4a58cfcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: THANK YOU, Nan, you express very well our need for general civility. Our volunteer guidelines approved by the Board on 1/13/1999 are a strong move in that direction, but it will take us awhile yet to get there. I am firmly resolved to help us move towards civility and mutual respect. THANKS again. -Joel. ---------------------------- On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Nan Hawthorne wrote: > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:26:17 -0700 > From: Nan Hawthorne > To: Rod Clark , scna-board at scn.org > Cc: Terry Trimingham , Barb Weismann , > Kenneth Crandall , em-trng at scn.org, > scn at scn.org, webmasters at scn.org, HR Committee
, > Gianni Truzzi , > Jim Tedford > Subject: The importance of having civility as a standard for volunteers (was RE: Revisit number forty two hundred) > > Rod, in your e-mail, you say: > > > Well, I have been known to flame the troglodytes from time to > time, and otherwise not play well with others occasionally. But > I hope on balance it's positive. ..... Not everyone's feelings can be be > wrapped up neatly or > expected to be constantly cheerful in such a non-organized > outfit as this > > Cheerful is not required, but civil always is. It is ten times easier to "bite > your tongue" with e-mail conversations than in person --- just hesitate over the > SEND button. > > Remember my perspective is as a professional trainer, wrriter, consultant and > practitioner of volunteer program management. There are guidelines for > volunteers to circumscribe their behavior and actions for a good reason, both > because they are representatives of the group as a whole and because the > experience for each volunteer is vital. There is nothing in the world more > discouraging to a volunteer than working hard only to discover that someone is > criticizing them behind their backs or at very least without the courtesy of > doing it in a formal, acceptable way. > > If flaming is to be considered an acceptable response by volunteers in SCN, then > I cannot be involved in the management of the volunteer program and still abide > by my professional ethics. If any of you find that statement "haughty", sobeit. > My conscience is my own territory. Consider your own work and how important its > standards are to you. > > I'm sorry, Rod, but this license to flame and the excessive personalization of > SCN operations and disputes is exactly what I think drags SCN down and makes the > problems develop. Everyone seems to be fair game here: then others wonder why > burnout is rife, why it's hard to get and keep good volunteers, why quality > suffers, why there is never enough help for projects, etc. etc. Heck, I > wouldn't be surprised if the poor communications are as much from fear of the > response as these other factors I just cited. > > I was brought in from outside this organization expressly to help it out of some > of its problems. OK, here's what I would've told you for $3000 if I had not > waived my fee: start acting like a community-oriented business. And that goes > for everyone. > > Nan Hawthorne, co-coordinator > HR Committee > > Joel Ware, IV SCNA Volunteer Coordinator xx015 at scn.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Tue Jun 29 21:33:02 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Revisit number forty two hundred In-Reply-To: <005b01bec1be$782b4040$0b58cfcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: Nan: It's not clear to me what your gripe is. I originated this "thread." I sent it to a bunch of lists because it was a petition. I think that responders failed to delete all those lists from their replies. However, I guess I considered the discussion important enough to get to all working volunteers. I think this should answer the part of the question about why so many lists. You next ask, I think, why get personal. Well, Kenneth asked for examples. He wanted actual case histories of what was wrong. I replied to him with an example. Terry replied with her example. Your question made me think of how we treat email addresses and titles, though. Basically, I don't really know who receives mail at xx029, xx031, and other email addresses associated with positions. When I write to them, it's not to a person, it's like a call in the dark, anyone home?? that's what it feels like. I want someone on that desk in on what the discussion is, but I won't necessarily focus in on a decision that "I want Mel and Steve, or whomever, to read this." When I do, I use their personal account addresses. Unfortunately, I also don't much associate the titles with the people, either...I may write volunteer coordinaotr, IP coordinator, this is one place where I am not really talking about Joel, Mel or Steve: I am talking about the position, and how they might seem to fill it. This is a dissociation that is perhaps not nice to make, but I make it, and I think others make it. Why is because the needs of the organization have always so far exceeded the capacity of the one person filling a post like volunteer coordinator, that we have gotten used to talking about the post, so as not to insult Nancy K. or Joel, who we know are doing what they can. I know this is a very odd twitch, but often we have done that trying to keep some respect for the person while wishing the job could be expanded and better done. I think others will concur that this is how long time scners feel. And, I think that dissociation from the reality of some other human out there is clearly part of what email communication is about. There are many names here I have never met in person, and, goodness, they don't know what I look like either! I in no way support the dissociation, but it happens. Barb On Mon, 28 Jun 1999, Nan Hawthorne wrote: > I have to ask this: > > Is it really productive to criticize the work of individual volunteers on all > these lists? Would any of you who have singled out individual volunteers for > public criticism feel very good about the same being done about you? > > I'm embarrassed to read some of this. And discouraged to see it. There are > assertive and cooperative ways to solve problems. > > What if instead of going after folks in a public arena we discuss _appropriate_ > ways to resolve problems in an all-volunteer organization? We might start by > listing what we'd each hope others did when concerned that we are not doing > _our_ part right. > > I suggest we all follow Rod's example and provide clear, succinct and civil and > un-personalized responses and questions. > > Nan Hawthorne > Co-coordinator, Human Resources > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Tue Jun 29 21:47:06 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: VA IP & Mentor Program Status In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Mel. And thank you both for all that work. Barb * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Tue Jun 29 22:03:52 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: VA IP & Mentor Program Status In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Mel, Ah, me. I was left with one question. It didn't seem to jive, you said that the Board priority was to fix what was already here before starting new projects. Did I get that right? There has been tons done in that direction, like Reg especially, that's a great priority. This report seems to say to me, IP is nearly fixed. Get the regs done via Bishop, then we're doing OK. So what's all this about surveying? What's not fixed? I am asking because there are still other areas of scn that need a reorganization and rethinking focus. Are you two going to stay in IP now? I am asking because, if so, HR needs more people. Forward movement in em-trng and webmasters can only go so far without new volunteers. Barb * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From xx029 at scn.org Wed Jun 30 06:24:01 1999 From: xx029 at scn.org (IP coordinator) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 06:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IP Program & general Recruiting [was IP & Mentor Program Status] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [This message has turned into a very long response - for those of you not interested in reading the whole thing, here's the abstract: IP Program still needs volunteers to help build communications with existing IPs, Recruiting in general is waiting on having solid intake processes in place, and the two of us would love to have some offers of help. - S & M ] Barb - first of all, thanks for the work you've been doing. We don't know exactly what it includes, but recently you have obviously been very active. We're hoping to see you at the next few meetings to catch up in person. On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > Ah, me. I was left with one question. It didn't seem to jive, you said > that the Board priority was to fix what was already here before starting > new projects. Did I get that right? There has been tons done in that > direction, like Reg especially, that's a great priority. Yes - we have all been more focused this year on fixing what was already in place than on starting new projects. > This report seems to say to me, IP is nearly fixed. Get the regs done > via Bishop, then we're doing OK. So what's all this about surveying? > What's not fixed? I am asking because there are still other areas of > scn that need a reorganization and rethinking focus. Are you two going > to stay in IP now? The IP program is not "nearly fixed" - its come a long way, especially for new registrations, but we still have virtually no communications yet established with the current IPs, mostly due to a lack of other volunteers to help in this area. We have hoped to work with Topic Editors to stay in contact with the IPs, but haven't gotten a clear impression yet of what the topic editors are and are not willing to do (many thoughts there of how to move forward, but this message has already gotten too long). We would love to have ongoing communications with IPs by email, phone & in person meetings. We have not yet asked them for donations of any kind (beyond the "ask" they received as part of the standard appeal) and we know they are getting real $$ value from having us host their pages for free - many have seemed willing to donate if only we were organized enough to ask. That takes having a database of the IPs and their contact info - something we have only started organizing out of the data we have. And it would help if we'd communicated to them a bit about the current services we're offering before we put our hand out. We would also love to be doing active outreach to potential IPs with no web-savvy. And to be building more in depth partnerships with orgs that have missions similiar or overlapping with SCN's work. But we need the existing services and suport structure to be strong enough for us to go out and do this. If we had 10 more volunteers, working on different pieces, we could do so much more... Yes, Steve & I are planning to continue with IP Coordination - if others want to get involved, even to help coordinate or take it over from us, we'd welcome their help as part of the team, and then move forward from there. For all the work we've done in any part of SCN, we are not willing to simply throw up our hands and say "take over" to someone who has not been working on the team - it would waste so much effort starting from scratch again on anything SCN has built, unless the team doing so is really sure they need to. > I am asking because, if so, HR needs more people. Forward movement in > em-trng and webmasters can only go so far without new volunteers. SCN definitely needs more people - there has been no argument on that from any of us - but we cannot recruit people if we do not have people already in place to take care of the new volunteers when they arrive. If em-trng has not just a need for new volutneers, but a specific intake process ready to bring them in, give them task descriptions and welcome their help, then we can recruit agressively for it. Likewise with webmasters and any other group. Without a working intake process for each team, new volunteers have frequently floundered and wandered off in search of a different volunteer program where they felt they were needed and could contribute effectively. HR is quite capable of recruiting agressively now - we are waiting until we have task descriptions and we know the recruitment efforts will be followed by sensible intake efforts from each team. Nan has been heading up a huge effort, called Project Reconnect, that will launch to take advantage of the best recruiting-for-volunteer season - the early fall. Personally, after the two of us get back from England in August (we'll be gone from July 26 - Aug 15, fyi) we hope to be very active in making sure the intake processes are working throughout the org. HR's specific needs for more people are also coming soon - we currently have a 5 person committee, and are looking for additional help. In between the other mega-hours Nan is pouring in on this, we believe she and Joel are specing out task descriptions for the HR team's work. If you or anyone else reading this is interested in helping with HR's work, contact Nan & Joel (nanh & xx015). The two of us have gotten a flood of criticism lately - not all that suprisingly, given the amount of time we've spent going to meetings and doing the work without reporting on it in writing - but the flood has had a very negative impact on our ability to focus on the work we were doing. (for example, we're writing this instead of getting anything else done). Since January, we have each been averaging between 30-60 hours a week on SCN-related work. We intend to continue with this, pacing ourselves to avoid burnout. We believe so much in the value SCN can provide the community - we would not be doing this otherwise. We repeat - to all interested parties (especially those least impressed with what we've done so far) - Please offer to help! We are actively looking for others willing to take on at least small parts of the big pieces we've bitten off. We can talk with you about your own interests/skills/availability and delegate or unload something that really fits, that you can really enjoy and succeed with. We have had some wonderful successes and some long setbacks with working with others, but have always and will continue to try very hard to make the teamwork work. PLEASE CALL US - ANYTIME. If phoning is realllly too burdensome, then send us email with the following information: 1) what type of tasks you most enjoy (html-coding? copy-editting? direct contact with who SCN serves or infrastructure building?) or what you want to do (to gain resume experience, for example), 2) what experience you have with the kinds of tasks you want to do, and 3) what time you have available now and in the near future. very sincerely, very late at night, Steve and Mel -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- Melissa and Steve Guest (425) 653 7353 Seattle Community Network http://www.scn.org "Supporting People and Communities with Free Internet Services" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From melissa at GroupWorks.org Wed Jun 30 07:45:25 1999 From: melissa at GroupWorks.org (Melissa Guest) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:45:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Why Attack? [was Revisit number forty two hundred] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Barb - We think you may have missed the main point of what Nan has said. The attacks are at people (whether you know who the mail goes to or not) and over big maillists. Why are ATTACKS necessary at all? Does it get the people who are receiving them more motivated to do the work they're not doing enough of? Perhaps, but it seems more likely they'll get involved in defending what they've been doing (e.g. our last few notes re: the IP Program, broadcasted to many more people than we think want to watch this whole set of interactions, but sent to all in an attempt to "clear our name"). Or the attackee or will just get less interested in doing anything ("why bother? it's thankless work anyway"). If you can't help but attack ("constructively criticize") what is being done, why not send it first just to the person/people who are most involved - and give them a chance to respond? Or talk to them!? Email is so much better for communication of simple information than it is for discussion of opinions (which have a lot of nonverbal cues normally accompanying them in coversation). What's the point of sending accusations (like gossip) to such large distribution lists? (this message, for example, is going to more than 100 people - my apologies to those of you already tired of all these messages). If the people doing the attacking spent their time instead on some of the work that needs doing, we would be able to move forward so much faster! If you or anyone else reading this thinks something is broken, get your hands dirty by joining the team responsible and find out exactly in which ways things are and are not working. Try offering to help work with the others involved to actually improve things rather than dictating from the sidelines how they should be improved (frequently without even close to full knowledge of what is really going on - something you won't be "entitled" to unless you are part of the team). If you can get organized enough to get a petition together, why not use the time instead organizing the same group to actually help get the work done? If you had all the board members removed, who would you put in their place that will spend any more time doing the work? [Btw - we're looking for applicants to the board, and have a lot more information about the skills/characteristics we're in need of to make the board more effective - anyone reading this can send me email or call if you'd like more details - a more public notice is almost ready to be sent to the SCNA membership. Prospective board applicants will be expected to start by volunteering, probably within a board-level committee.] Barb, you and a few others especially could be so much more a positive driving force in this organization IF you wanted to be. It just takes consciously working with others supportively instead of shouting at the wind about what you think is wrong. We're so glad to see some of the steps you personally have taken in this direction (like volunteering to help with some of the problems you are most concerned about), and hope others will follow your example. Anyone interested is welcome to contact us or the volunteer program directly. - Steve & Mel -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- Melissa & Steve Guest (425) 653 7353 Seattle Community Network http://www.scn.org "Supporting People and Communities with Free Internet Services" On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > Nan: > It's not clear to me what your gripe is. I originated this "thread." I > sent it to a bunch of lists because it was a petition. I think that > responders failed to delete all those lists from their replies. However, > I guess I considered the discussion important enough to get to all working > volunteers. I think this should answer the part of the question about why > so many lists. > > You next ask, I think, why get personal. Well, Kenneth asked for > examples. He wanted actual case histories of what was wrong. I replied > to him with an example. Terry replied with her example. > > Your question made me think of how we treat email addresses and titles, > though. Basically, I don't really know who receives mail at xx029, xx031, > and other email addresses associated with positions. When I write to > them, it's not to a person, it's like a call in the dark, anyone > home?? that's what it feels like. I want someone on that desk in on what > the discussion is, but I won't necessarily focus in on a decision that "I > want Mel and Steve, or whomever, to read this." When I do, I use their > personal account addresses. > > Unfortunately, I also don't much associate the titles with the people, > either...I may write volunteer coordinaotr, IP coordinator, this is one > place where I am not really talking about Joel, Mel or Steve: I am talking > about the position, and how they might seem to fill it. This is a > dissociation that is perhaps not nice to make, but I make it, and I think > others make it. Why is because the needs of the organization have always > so far exceeded the capacity of the one person filling a post like > volunteer coordinator, that we have gotten used to talking about the post, > so as not to insult Nancy K. or Joel, who we know are doing what they can. > I know this is a very odd twitch, but often we have done that trying to > keep some respect for the person while wishing the job could be expanded > and better done. > > I think others will concur that this is how long time scners feel. And, I > think that dissociation from the reality of some other human out there is > clearly part of what email communication is about. There are many names > here I have never met in person, and, goodness, they don't know what I > look like either! I in no way support the dissociation, but it happens. > > Barb > > > > On Mon, 28 Jun 1999, Nan Hawthorne wrote: > > > I have to ask this: > > > > Is it really productive to criticize the work of individual volunteers on all > > these lists? Would any of you who have singled out individual volunteers for > > public criticism feel very good about the same being done about you? > > > > I'm embarrassed to read some of this. And discouraged to see it. There are > > assertive and cooperative ways to solve problems. > > > > What if instead of going after folks in a public arena we discuss _appropriate_ > > ways to resolve problems in an all-volunteer organization? We might start by > > listing what we'd each hope others did when concerned that we are not doing > > _our_ part right. > > > > I suggest we all follow Rod's example and provide clear, succinct and civil and > > un-personalized responses and questions. > > > > Nan Hawthorne > > Co-coordinator, Human Resources * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From steve at advocate.net Wed Jun 30 09:58:06 1999 From: steve at advocate.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:58:06 -0800 Subject: Why Attack? Message-ID: <199906301601.JAA12515@scn.org> Just a thought - instead of broadcasting another personal (attack?) message, why not send it only to the person involved? Then, if necessary and appropriate, notify the lists that the personal message has been sent, and that a copy is available by request. Otherwise, we'll just be perpetuating the incongruous practice of broadcasting personal messages to express disapproval of others broadcasting personal messages. ...Steve * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From alboss at scn.org Wed Jun 30 10:06:07 1999 From: alboss at scn.org (Al Boss) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:06:07 -0700 Subject: WEB: Why Attack? [was Revisit number forty two hundred] References: Message-ID: <377A4E7F.497312C3@scn.org> "It's not personal." People always say that. It's almost never the truth. What they mean is, "It's not personal to me." I got hit by a car a couple years ago. Neither the car nor the driver meant anything personal by it. It wasn't directed at me; my role as a bicyclist just conflicted with their role as a motor vehicle. It felt pretty personal to me, though. I used to work in an organization where warring managers used to play a version of org-chart chess, using their respective staffs as sacrificial pawns. It wasn't personal to those managers; they were scarcely aware of who we even were. That fact made it no less personal to the piles of emotional corpses of all those people who got screwed. It wasn't personal to the purchaser of a Big Mac, but it sure was personal to the cow. We all mean well, we call care about SCN, we're all passionate and involved or we wouldn't be having this conversation. And, we're not as awful as the examples I used above. And none of that matters when you're the one who's hurt, or who's dragged down in front of your friends and peers. Consider the consequences of what you do when you interact with other people. It's generally personal to the individual on the receiving end. Al * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From nanh at scn.org Wed Jun 30 10:16:12 1999 From: nanh at scn.org (Nan Hawthorne) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:16:12 -0700 Subject: WEB: Why Attack? [was Revisit number forty two hundred] In-Reply-To: <377A4E7F.497312C3@scn.org> Message-ID: <001e01bec31c$41068700$0458cfcf@oemcomputer> Al, Reminds me of how as teenagers we used to preface all our criticisms with "No offense, but..." Cordially, Nan Hawthorne Co-coordinator, SCN HR Committee nanh at scn.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I feel the greatest reward for doing is the opportunity to do more." --Jonas Salk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bp363 at scn.org Wed Jun 30 10:36:05 1999 From: bp363 at scn.org (cartr014) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: english Message-ID: Kevin, What's up kevin? you know what, yor stinks like your mom and your dad.(syke).How's your day today? I hope your doing fine. Talk to you later.Bye!!!! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From bb140 at scn.org Wed Jun 30 11:46:10 1999 From: bb140 at scn.org (Barb Weismann) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Why Attack? [was Revisit number forty two hundred] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Mel: I want first to say: we have all been hurt here. I mean, we feel it. It has been part of my work here that I regret. I hope we can find ways to work, so that people involved won't have to have feeling hurt as part of their commitment to scn. With that, I want to apologize deeply for any way in whiich I have inadvertently hurt another. I think my reply to Nan made it clear that I don't like the dissociation that goes on with this kind of communication. If I have contributed to that, I am sorry. In writing the petition, I was seeking a manner in which I could ask others in the organization to approach what I saw as a problem. I did not think that if I wrote a petition to change policies and Bylaws, that when I sued terms like "volunteer coordinaotr," that would be taken as an attack. It wasn't meant as an attack. The ByLaws don't have any Board reporting requirements more than once a year at the annual meeting. I don't think that's enough. Thus, the petition. Again, thank you for your report. I always appreciate the time taken to write these. However, I think we have a difference of opinion over their worth: I consider that the report is just as important as the work done. Maybe that is an unusual position, but it comes from working in so many places where working hard is always the mode, communicating to decision-makers always difficult, and having important opportunties pass unnoticed part of the frustration. Reporting gives good pictures of roles fulfilled, accomplishments reached, and those special times of opportunities seized upon and made into a success, fully understood. to me, it should be the other side of the coin of work: recogntion. I have been trying to follow Nan's request that instead of complaining, "why can't they," that I search myself and make offers as to how to help to solve what is my desire to have accomplished. I'd like to continue with that effort, but I think I need some advice. Given that I am interested in having monthly reporting of Board, committee, and work group work published on scn so both we and the outside world can get a better view of how we work and what we do: --What can I offer to do besides, as I have, offered to take minutes at Board meetings? --How can I serve other committees and positions, which do not meet regularly, to accomplish this? Ideas: interveiw the positions once a month and take notes? Round up other volunteers within those work groups who are interested, too, in good reporting, and organize the effort? Create a new committee for this?(I don't consider this a good option, but...) Research voice to script transcribers to make the job easier for others? Get a tape transcription playback machine for scn and have committtees and meetings taped and sent to me for transcription? These are ideas, I am throwing them out there, I don't expect anything more than that they get mulled over and considered, whether any one or several would work. I have one more offer: I wrote something in that last reply to Nan that was passed over. I think I said: "the needs of the organization have always far exceeded the capacity of the postions to meet." I think this is still true, and I think we need more workers on the HR committee to bring the organizational capacity to bring in and use volunteers up further. I think a good goal would be to aim that every volunteer does their one or two or three hours a week or month or whatever, says to themself, "Done!" feels good about it, and goes out to Coleman Pool. We're not there yet. Endlessly too much work makes me feel junky, overwhelmed, wanna quit. Accomplishing finite tasks, even returning to them a second time, as with the em-trng outline (collective) editing, that feels good. If you wish, I will help you and scn develop capacity. Barb On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Melissa Guest wrote: > Barb - > > We think you may have missed the main point of what Nan has said. The > attacks are at people (whether you know who the mail goes to or not) > and over big maillists. Why are ATTACKS necessary at all? Does it > get the people who are receiving them more motivated to do the work > they're not doing enough of? Perhaps, but it seems more likely > they'll get involved in defending what they've been doing (e.g. our > last few notes re: the IP Program, broadcasted to many more people > than we think want to watch this whole set of interactions, but sent > to all in an attempt to "clear our name"). Or the attackee or will > just get less interested in doing anything ("why bother? it's > thankless work anyway"). > > If you can't help but attack ("constructively criticize") what is > being done, why not send it first just to the person/people who are > most involved - and give them a chance to respond? Or talk to them!? > Email is so much better for communication of simple information than > it is for discussion of opinions (which have a lot of nonverbal cues > normally accompanying them in coversation). What's the point of > sending accusations (like gossip) to such large distribution lists? > (this message, for example, is going to more than 100 people - my > apologies to those of you already tired of all these messages). > > If the people doing the attacking spent their time instead on some of > the work that needs doing, we would be able to move forward so much > faster! If you or anyone else reading this thinks something is > broken, get your hands dirty by joining the team responsible and find > out exactly in which ways things are and are not working. Try > offering to help work with the others involved to actually improve > things rather than dictating from the sidelines how they should be > improved (frequently without even close to full knowledge of what is > really going on - something you won't be "entitled" to unless you are > part of the team). > > If you can get organized enough to get a petition together, why not > use the time instead organizing the same group to actually help get > the work done? If you had all the board members removed, who would > you put in their place that will spend any more time doing the work? > [Btw - we're looking for applicants to the board, and have a lot more > information about the skills/characteristics we're in need of to make > the board more effective - anyone reading this can send me email or > call if you'd like more details - a more public notice is almost ready > to be sent to the SCNA membership. Prospective board applicants will > be expected to start by volunteering, probably within a board-level > committee.] > > Barb, you and a few others especially could be so much more a positive > driving force in this organization IF you wanted to be. It just takes > consciously working with others supportively instead of shouting at > the wind about what you think is wrong. We're so glad to see some of > the steps you personally have taken in this direction (like > volunteering to help with some of the problems you are most concerned > about), and hope others will follow your example. Anyone interested > is welcome to contact us or the volunteer program directly. > > - Steve & Mel > > -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- -=-=- -=- > Melissa & Steve Guest (425) 653 7353 > Seattle Community Network http://www.scn.org > "Supporting People and Communities with Free Internet Services" > > > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Barb Weismann wrote: > > Nan: > > It's not clear to me what your gripe is. I originated this "thread." I > > sent it to a bunch of lists because it was a petition. I think that > > responders failed to delete all those lists from their replies. However, > > I guess I considered the discussion important enough to get to all working > > volunteers. I think this should answer the part of the question about why > > so many lists. > > > > You next ask, I think, why get personal. Well, Kenneth asked for > > examples. He wanted actual case histories of what was wrong. I replied > > to him with an example. Terry replied with her example. > > > > Your question made me think of how we treat email addresses and titles, > > though. Basically, I don't really know who receives mail at xx029, xx031, > > and other email addresses associated with positions. When I write to > > them, it's not to a person, it's like a call in the dark, anyone > > home?? that's what it feels like. I want someone on that desk in on what > > the discussion is, but I won't necessarily focus in on a decision that "I > > want Mel and Steve, or whomever, to read this." When I do, I use their > > personal account addresses. > > > > Unfortunately, I also don't much associate the titles with the people, > > either...I may write volunteer coordinaotr, IP coordinator, this is one > > place where I am not really talking about Joel, Mel or Steve: I am talking > > about the position, and how they might seem to fill it. This is a > > dissociation that is perhaps not nice to make, but I make it, and I think > > others make it. Why is because the needs of the organization have always > > so far exceeded the capacity of the one person filling a post like > > volunteer coordinator, that we have gotten used to talking about the post, > > so as not to insult Nancy K. or Joel, who we know are doing what they can. > > I know this is a very odd twitch, but often we have done that trying to > > keep some respect for the person while wishing the job could be expanded > > and better done. > > > > I think others will concur that this is how long time scners feel. And, I > > think that dissociation from the reality of some other human out there is > > clearly part of what email communication is about. There are many names > > here I have never met in person, and, goodness, they don't know what I > > look like either! I in no way support the dissociation, but it happens. > > > > Barb > > > > > > > > On Mon, 28 Jun 1999, Nan Hawthorne wrote: > > > > > I have to ask this: > > > > > > Is it really productive to criticize the work of individual volunteers on all > > > these lists? Would any of you who have singled out individual volunteers for > > > public criticism feel very good about the same being done about you? > > > > > > I'm embarrassed to read some of this. And discouraged to see it. There are > > > assertive and cooperative ways to solve problems. > > > > > > What if instead of going after folks in a public arena we discuss _appropriate_ > > > ways to resolve problems in an all-volunteer organization? We might start by > > > listing what we'd each hope others did when concerned that we are not doing > > > _our_ part right. > > > > > > I suggest we all follow Rod's example and provide clear, succinct and civil and > > > un-personalized responses and questions. > > > > > > Nan Hawthorne > > > Co-coordinator, Human Resources > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== > * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From nanh at scn.org Wed Jun 30 14:53:03 1999 From: nanh at scn.org (Nan Hawthorne) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:53:03 -0700 Subject: Motivating volunteers: Long but interesting Message-ID: <000f01bec342$eda935e0$5658cfcf@oemcomputer> Dear SCN volunteer: You may have seen several posts to other SCN lists of late where the topic of how to motivate volunteers has come up rather obliquely. I thought it might be interesting and useful to post some information on the topic, since we are all volunteers and need to know not only what motivates us but how to motivate each other. I hope all the principals of the conversation are on this mail list! The vol-announce is not a discussion grou, but scn at scn.org is and by all means repost this information to your team or committee list and discuss it there if you wish. This all comes up from a debate that could be boiled down to "can you draw more flies with honey or vinegar?" Some folks, not intending to be negative, I'm sure, have been distributing the vinegar of criticism. Others have pleaded for the honey of support and encouragement. I have responded that there are more effective ways to motivate people, so I decided I should illustrate my point here. Perhaps the following insights will help. You can see this addressed more fully with more instruction on how to use the information at http://www.cybervpm.com/index.htm. It is covered quite beautifully in Steve McCurley and Rick Lynch's book VOLUNTEER MANAGEMENT: MOBILIZING THE SKILLS IN YOUR COMMUNITY. This is one of the many topics I have trained and written on and have training kits about. I suspect you will enjoy the insights you gain about yourself too. The Four Motivators Needless to say individuals are too complex to pigeonhole into distinct categories on what motivates them or any other characteristic. But this exercise has proved useful for working with volunteers and understanding the key concept that not everyone measures success with the same yardstick. That's what motivating people is: finding how they individually define or recognize their own successes and making sure the elements they need are present. No matter what other reasons a person volunteers (e.g., for fun, for friends, for a cause, for a resume, etc.) there is one thing every single person wants, and that is to feel like their effort is effective, that they are a success at volunteering, contributing. There are people who believe that you can motivate people with all kinds of negative inducements, such as nagging, manipulation, begging, browbeating, heckling, you name it. But there are better ways that motivate people not only to do what you want but to do it happily, well and for a long time. Exercise: Take a minute and close your eyes. Think about a situation in which you did or would feel absolutely certain you are a success, that you did what you set out to do. This can be a real experience, like getting a promotion, or an imagined one, like being elected to high office. What it is at this point is less important than that you really feel it. Picture where you are, who else is there if anyone, what tells you you succeeded, what is being said or done or perceived. Then try to see which of these most closely matches your vision. A. You saw yourself getting recognition from someone else through praise or awards or a promotion or some other evidence of appreciation or admiration. B. You could see the physical evidence of your achievement for yourself: an empty IN box, all the dishes washed and put away, the winning score on the scoreboard, a diploma, etc. C. You know you are a success because you belong to a winning team or group or family. Perhaps your family is well-educated, your hockey team won the Stanley Cup, your party won the election, etc. D. You have persuaded, whether by action or example, someone or a group to improve their lives or how they act or what they do. Such as someone decides not to drop out of school, or a group finds a better way to do something, etc. You will probably find more than one of these fits. No problem. Now remember that what this means is that unless you have the necessary elements you simply will not be ABLE to recognize your own success. You might be on top but you can't see that you are. For instance, someone who must see the evidence for themselves not only won't agree with you if you praise them for something they're not satisfied with, but they will think you are insincere. Here's what the four motivators are: A. PRAISE Homo sapiens is a socially bonding animal so we naturally look to others to assess our position and effectiveness. So many of us measure success through praise from others, whether as thanks, compliments, awards, rewards, public recognition, etc. A praise-motivated volunteer needs to hear that you appreciate and approve of their work and will be most devastated by criticism. B. ACCOMPLISHMENT Accomplishment-motivated people need to have the evidence of success right in front of them. They need to see that something is completed, finished, dealt with. They are drawn to tasks with a material product. They hate meetings unless something tangible is being generated. You want to give them discreet tasks with a beginning and an end and preferably something objective they can perceive themselves. Comment on amounts of work done rather than just the quality. If they are working on a less tangible task, come up with some way to note steps or milestones in the work. Accomplishment-motivated people are driven bats by unfinished projects. C, AFFILIATION Affiliative people feel best in a group effort, especially if they identify somehow with the group. This can be a family, a school, a workplace, a sports team that they are either in or fans of, a country, a church or temple, even Earth. They are less concerned with their individual success than the group's success. They like logos, insignia, flags. They, I joke, are the easiest people to keep happy because all you need to do is slap a t-shirt on them! They won't be happy working isolation. They don't want to be singled out. D. INFLUENCE Some call this one POWER and it is true that the motivator can be as likely CONTROL as INFLUENCE if the person does not have the good of the organization at heart. But an influence-motivated volunteer either has or thinks they have a better way of thinking or doing something. Or are more intelligent, experienced and wiser. If the group or an individual doesn't start doing what they think they should do or doing it the way they think it should be done, they won't feel successful about their participation. This group gets a bum rap because we tend to think of them as bossy. And some of them are. But others are leaders, role models, visionaries, insprers and we love them. I have a little story about how I figured out which of my two strongest motivators was stronger. One particular day I had an unusual amount of housework to do. I managed to get it all done before my partner got home. I thought to myself, "OK, now I can see if I am more Praise or Accomplishment motivated. If it's Accomplishment, I should be content that I see the work is done. If Praise I'll tell Jim." I told Jim. Be sure you don't just apply this to yourself. It's good to undersatand what motivates you, but in an all-volunteer organization like SCN it's very important we each recognize others' motivators. The web site I cited above has tips on how to do this and how to respond most effectively. Cordially, Nan Hawthorne Co-coordinator, SCN HR Committee nanh at scn.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I feel the greatest reward for doing is the opportunity to do more." --Jonas Salk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From be718 at scn.org Wed Jun 30 23:23:11 1999 From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The importance of having civility as a standard for volunteers (was RE: Revisit number forty two hundred) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Joel, and the World, This message you sent is incorrect. The board did NOT approve your conduct list at the January meeting. I was there. Specifically, the board said that the list was tentative until it was run by the membership. It never was run by the membership. Steve Guest told me he was working on a conduct list for official submission. So your list never did get official approval. I'll be writing more on civility and ethics in a few days. But, for now, it is necessary to counter your statement that your list was officially approved by the board at the 1/13/99 meeting. Did we ever get a conduct list that dealt with board members publicly distorting the truth? Anyone? Rich ______________________________________________________________________ ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, SCNA Volunteer Coordinator wrote: > THANK YOU, Nan, you express very well our need for general civility. > Our volunteer guidelines approved by the Board on 1/13/1999 are a strong > move in that direction, but it will take us awhile yet to get there. > I am firmly resolved to help us move towards civility and mutual respect. > THANKS again. > > -Joel. > > ---------------------------- > > > On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Nan Hawthorne wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:26:17 -0700 > > From: Nan Hawthorne > > To: Rod Clark , scna-board at scn.org > > Cc: Terry Trimingham , Barb Weismann , > > Kenneth Crandall , em-trng at scn.org, > > scn at scn.org, webmasters at scn.org, HR Committee
, > > Gianni Truzzi , > > Jim Tedford > > Subject: The importance of having civility as a standard for volunteers (was RE: Revisit number forty two hundred) > > > > Rod, in your e-mail, you say: > > > > > Well, I have been known to flame the troglodytes from time to > > time, and otherwise not play well with others occasionally. But > > I hope on balance it's positive. ..... Not everyone's feelings can be be > > wrapped up neatly or > > expected to be constantly cheerful in such a non-organized > > outfit as this > > > > Cheerful is not required, but civil always is. It is ten times easier to "bite > > your tongue" with e-mail conversations than in person --- just hesitate over the > > SEND button. > > > > Remember my perspective is as a professional trainer, wrriter, consultant and > > practitioner of volunteer program management. There are guidelines for > > volunteers to circumscribe their behavior and actions for a good reason, both > > because they are representatives of the group as a whole and because the > > experience for each volunteer is vital. There is nothing in the world more > > discouraging to a volunteer than working hard only to discover that someone is > > criticizing them behind their backs or at very least without the courtesy of > > doing it in a formal, acceptable way. > > > > If flaming is to be considered an acceptable response by volunteers in SCN, then > > I cannot be involved in the management of the volunteer program and still abide > > by my professional ethics. If any of you find that statement "haughty", sobeit. > > My conscience is my own territory. Consider your own work and how important its > > standards are to you. > > > > I'm sorry, Rod, but this license to flame and the excessive personalization of > > SCN operations and disputes is exactly what I think drags SCN down and makes the > > problems develop. Everyone seems to be fair game here: then others wonder why > > burnout is rife, why it's hard to get and keep good volunteers, why quality > > suffers, why there is never enough help for projects, etc. etc. Heck, I > > wouldn't be surprised if the poor communications are as much from fear of the > > response as these other factors I just cited. > > > > I was brought in from outside this organization expressly to help it out of some > > of its problems. OK, here's what I would've told you for $3000 if I had not > > waived my fee: start acting like a community-oriented business. And that goes > > for everyone. > > > > Nan Hawthorne, co-coordinator > > HR Committee > > > > > > Joel Ware, IV > SCNA Volunteer Coordinator xx015 at scn.org > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== > * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * From be718 at scn.org Wed Jun 30 23:34:54 1999 From: be718 at scn.org (Rich Littleton) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WEB: Why Attack? [was Revisit number forty two hundred] In-Reply-To: <377A4E7F.497312C3@scn.org> Message-ID: I think I'm experiencing deja vu all over again. I intend to discuss civility a bit more in the future, but a succinct (and civil) comment at this point. 99.9% "attacks" ("complaints" from a different perspective) occur because Person X thinks he/she has run into a problem. Thus, to complain about the complaint WITHOUT FIRST GETTING INVOLVED IN SOLVING (or explaining away) the problem, is not helpful. So, how about this being the basic rule: No complaints about the complaint (attack) unless one has first worked to solve the underlying problem. Rich ______________________________________________________________________ ***** Unless stated otherwise, this message may be forwarded. ****** On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Al Boss wrote: > "It's not personal." > > People always say that. It's almost never the truth. What they mean is, > "It's not personal to me." > > I got hit by a car a couple years ago. Neither the car nor the driver > meant anything personal by it. It wasn't directed at me; my role as a > bicyclist just conflicted with their role as a motor vehicle. It felt > pretty personal to me, though. > > I used to work in an organization where warring managers used to play a > version of org-chart chess, using their respective staffs as sacrificial > pawns. It wasn't personal to those managers; they were scarcely aware of > who we even were. That fact made it no less personal to the piles of > emotional corpses of all those people who got screwed. > > It wasn't personal to the purchaser of a Big Mac, but it sure was > personal to the cow. > > We all mean well, we call care about SCN, we're all passionate and > involved or we wouldn't be having this conversation. And, we're not as > awful as the examples I used above. And none of that matters when you're > the one who's hurt, or who's dragged down in front of your friends and > peers. > > Consider the consequences of what you do when you interact with other > people. It's generally personal to the individual on the receiving end. > > Al > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * > . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: > majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: > unsubscribe scn > ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== > * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * * * * * . To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn ==== Messages posted on this list are also available on the web at: ==== * * * * * * * http://www.scn.org/volunteers/scn-l/ * * * * * * *