BD: Re: SCN: "Free-Nets" in Los Angeles Times

[patrick]

Steve and Marlyn,

I totally agree with everything. Thought I'd bring up the topic of
the Victoria service, just to view things from another angle. 

If SCN were to do it, it would have to turn it's switch from a
donation and grant related status and delve into the commercial
realm.

My main point is that computers can be had for free or at a very low
cost, however access to the internet is often an expensive
proposition.

And it's a pain-in-the-butt to go to the library and hope to get
online. Even as the libraries open, the terminals are swamped.

People should have access to low-cost internet access. Many people
don't have this option even if they have a P90 or PowerMac at their
disposal.

Patrick

--- Marilyn Sheck <Marilyn.Sheck at spl.org> wrote:
> Well said, Steve.  And, YES, you are right about the library not
> being able
> to sustain your internet feed if your traffic increased.  We are
> already having
> trouble with our bandwidth just with SCN in its present form
> combined with
> our own services.  We would not be able to use public funds, which
> is what
> we pay for the Internet connection with, to support SCN's
> connection if it
> is more than a small fraction of our overall bandwidth usage.
> 
> >>> steveg at scn.org 12/21/01 01:08PM >>>
> Hi
> Well first off we do have free dialup service.  On the other hand,
> this is
> basic command style access and not FREE Internet access.  I agree
> it would
> be great to offer such services, but we have address some important
> issues
> first.
> 
> Let me try and explain why we do not have free internet access.
> 
> 1) If we were to offer free unrestricted connections to the
> Internet via
> our free dial service and our SPL donated connection to the
> Internet, then
> the traffic which SCN uses would jump considerably.  This would be
> followed by the lose of our donated Internet feed, because
> currently I
> have been led to believe that the Library would not be able to
> justify the
> cost of the service.  This would mean that we would have to provide
> our
> own Internet feed.  At this point we raise the need then to be in
> the
> Library because we are then simply taking up their limited space. 
> So if
> this was to happen then SCN would have to cover the phone lines,
> the
> Internet feed and possible the cost of a new location.  We do not
> have the
> budget for this and we would be out of funds within months or
> weeks.
> 
> 2) If we were to offer such a service with a fee, as indicated that
> Victoria in Canada does, then we open another can of worms.  First
> lets
> point out we are not in Canada and therefore have a whole different
> set of
> rules to abide by.  One of these is the IRS.  They are already
> looking at
> FreeNets because our "charitable" status is based on the
> educational value
> of the service.  As soon as we set up a competing service with a
> commercial service such as MSN or AOL - fee for service - in an
> area which
> is not directly education then we fall outside the charitable
> status.
> Thus we lose the 501(c)3 status.  This is what happened or is
> happening to
> Eugene FreeNet.  They had to setup a commercial company to sell
> their fee
> for service IP connections and break away from the educational
> section.
> Again something that would put us at odds with the Library and its
> donation to us.
> 
> The IRS are still sniping and they have not yet gotten to SCN, but
> we are
> in their sights.  We have to be careful and stay legal.
> 
> Until we can figure out the IRS's view of this, understand the
> Library's
> view, have the funds and staff to support this and the software to
> ensure
> that we can guard against misuse - I do not see SCN being able to
> commit
> to supplying free full internet access for our users.
> 
> Plus - this was not what SCN was designed to offer.  It is initialy
> an
> email and maillist site which grew into a major web resource for
> Seattle.
> We were never in the free ISP business.
> 
> I hope this response is clear.  I am not trying to say we cannot
> discuss
> these points, but we need to ensure that we can support our current
> services before we branch into others.
> 
> Steve
>       =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
> Steve Guest         steveg at scn.org         steve at groupworks.org
> VP of Board and ED of Seattle Community Network
> (425) 653 7353                               http://www.scn.org/
> 
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, patrick wrote:
> 
> > I wish SCN had low-cost, regular dial-up service. Victoria
> freenet
> > has regular dial-up service for $104 a year, which is a great
> deal.
> >
> > Few people use Lynx and after they have used Hotmail or some
> other
> > web-based service to check their mail, after they have surfed the
> net
> > to check on items on eBay, etc., one would find it hard to go to
> a
> > clunky Lynx browswer to surf the web.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > --- Doug Schuler <douglas at scn.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > A good article entitled "Freenets Getting a New Lease on Life"
> is
> > > in today's Los Angeles Times.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-000100643dec20.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dtechnology
> > >
> > > -- Doug
> > >
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