SCN: Lesson for anti-war / Horowitz

[Joe Mabel]

For what it's worth, yes, David Horowitz was approximately "as important in the
left as he says he was." He was founder and editor of Ramparts magazine, which
for was the most prestigious magazine of the New Left. Because it was a glossy,
it reached a lot of people who were disinclined to read obviously "underground"
papers.

Horowitz made a disastrous recommendation to Betty van Patter to keep books for
the Black Panthers in the days when the grup had become so corrupt that Bobby
Seale had quit, calling for the Panthers to shut down. Van Patter ended up dead.

It is not clear how much Horowitz blames himself for Van Patter's death, but it
is clear that he reacted to this by a complete reversal of his political
position over then next few years. By the time Reagan was running for President
in 1980, Horowitz was firmly in the Reagan camp.

--------------------
Joe Mabel

On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, sharma at blarg.net wrote:

>
>
> I have not bothered to look for the
> original citation, but I have seen
> Horowitz on TV under other circumstances
> and this certainly sounds like him. He
> was a leftie who became disillusioned
> with the left, joined the right, and has
> been making a good living attacking the
> left since. Who knows if he was really
> as important in the left as he says he
> was. While some of the stuff he says in
> other venues makes sense, and is at
> least open to debate, this is pure
> garbage.
>
> As one of those demonstrators I can say
> with certainty that we did not have the
> power to cause US failure in Vietnam,
> our gov failed on its own. Like so many
> righties, he is terminally cranky, and
> while he also admits that we have
> complex problems, he finds that he
> prefers simple, or is that simplistic,
> solutions. And above all, wave the flag
> and agree with the gov.
>
> Like the current war on drugs, the
> lament that "if only we got serious and
> had the full support of the public, we
> could win this war" was used regarding
> Vietnam and is used to ignore and pesky
> little facts that keep popping up about
> the impossibility of winning then and in
> our current drug war. Even when Russia
> was a complete police state, people used
> drugs. Even in China, where people can
> be put to death (or slave labor for
> years) people use drugs. And nothing can
> stop people from fighting for their
> homes, except total genocide, even in
> Vietnam.
>
> Like Fox News (fair and balanced
> reporting they keep saying), when in
> doubt the right attacks the left, or the
> middle since they cannot tell the
> difference. Keep in mind that these
> people considered Clinton a screaming
> leftist!
>
> One newletter I read recently pointed
> out that the 100 million bucks the right
> got spent in trying to castrate Clinton
> could have been spent on paying
> attention to terrorism. And maybe even
> paying attention to all sorts of other
> important stuff happening to the
> country.
>
> Thanks for your quote from Tuchman, she
> says it so well....
>
> -sharma
>
>
> Malcolm Taran wrote:
> >
> > (Thread of TuanMD and J Johnson)
> >
> > --> Is this satire or a hoax?
> > --> A 700 Club feature?
> > --> In what medium did the original appear?  References?
> >
> > On Fri, 5 Oct 2001, 13:48:05, TuanMD wrote:
> > > Anti-War Demonstrators Should Think Twice
> > >                                   Wednesday, October 03, 2001
> > > By David Horowitz from FOX News
> > >
> > >                            I am a former anti-war activist who helped
> > > to organize the first campus demonstration against the war in Vietnam
> > > at the University of California, Berkeley in 1962. I appeal to all
> > > those young people who participated in "anti-war" demonstrations on
> > > 150 college campuses this week, to think again and not to join an
> > > "anti-war" effort against America's coming battle with international
> > > terrorism.
> > > [snip]
> >
> > A most succinct evaluation re. the above is chapter five
> > in Barbara Tuchman's
> > _The March of Folly: from Troy to Vietnam_, NY: Knopf, '84
> > (SPL 909.08 T79M),
> > as well as providing context with the continuity of the book.
> > (Tuchman is the author of _The Guns of August_.)
> >
> > "Ignorance was not a factor in the American endeavor in Vietnam
> > pursued through five successive presidencies, altough it was to
> > become an excuse.  Ignorance of country and culture there may
> > have been, but not ignorance of the contra-indications, even the
> > barriers, to achieving the objective of American policy.  All the
> > conditions and reasons precluding a successful outcome were
> > recognized or foreseen at one time or another during the thirty
> > years of our involvement.  American intervention was not a
> > progress sucked step by step into an unsuspected quagmire.  At no
> > time were policy-makers unaware of the hazards, obstacles and
> > negative developments.  American intelligence was adequate,
> > informed observation flowed steadily from the field to the
> > capital, special investigative missions were repeatedly sent out,
> > independent reportage to balance professional optimism--when that
> > prevailed--was never lacking.  The folly consisted not in pursuit
> > of a goal in ignorance of the obstacles but in persistence in the
> > pursuit despite accumulating evidence that the goal was
> > unattainable, and the effect disproportionate to the American
> > interest and eventually damaging to American society, reputation
> > and disposable power in the world."  (Tuchman, '84. p.234.)
> >
> > _The Pentagon Papers_ need only be mentioned.
> >
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