SCN: RE: Re: National Day of Mourning
Victor
vme at jps.net
Mon Sep 17 12:55:47 PDT 2001
I hear you are very concerned about what happened Tuesday. Probably for the
killing of innocent lives as well as the pain inflicted on so many more
people. And probably concerned about safety, for yourself, loved ones and
others.
I too am concerned about the above.
I am also very frightened of our government. I am scared that in their
efforts, they will cause an even greater amount of pain around the world.
Already I hear government officials talking about revenge, regardless of the
loss of innocent life. Pres. Bush is talking about a war with no borders,
with no specified enemy, with no measurable goal.
I fear that some people in this country are NOT taking my needs and the
needs of people around the world into consideration as they go ahead with
their strategy.
While it was just before I was born, I am very much aware of the pain caused
by another person who wanted to make the world a better place using
violence. He was German.
And I offer the following pledge of allegiance I saw on a t-shirt:
I pledge allegiance to Mankind and to its flag, for which no one should die;
and to evolving life on this planet, for living things are precious.
I pledge to treat all humanely by caring for and respecting others' bodies;
by understanding others' minds but being true to myself without disrespect;
and by accepting the emotions of others as I control my own.
I will have mercy on others with gentle liberty and empathetic justice for
all.
-- Misericordia
Copyright: The Mankind First Co. 1987
Yours,
Thomas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-scn at scn.org [mailto:owner-scn at scn.org]On Behalf Of Randy
Groves
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:05 AM
To: scn at scn.org
Subject: SCN: Re: National Day of Mourning
I have to admit that there is a part of me that in its anger is ready to
lash out at the nearest target. There is a part of me that feels that in
this 'release' there would be some relief to the visceral reactions that I
am having in trying to wrap my mind around an event that is, in the end,
not understandable in normal human terms. I think that there are a lot of
people that feel this way.
I don't know what the solutions are. The people that actually perpetrated
this monstrosity have already paid. We can do no more to them. The
others that assisted them need to be brought to justice. How and when
that happens will unfold - but I hope that we can do it in a way that
doesn't bring us down to their level.
The level of hate that was reflected in these acts - which most reasoning
people would consider insane - is mind bending. The strength of the
feeling and conviction carried these people through months, perhaps
YEARS of preparation. One note a friend of mine encountered indicated
that there was precise calculation as to the floors to hit and the
proper angle of the plane as it hit - in order to topple the buildings,
not just damage them. If true, it just makes the enormity of the act
even more chilling.
We cannot and should not stoop to the same levels of hate. That is
exactly what they want us to do. This was a strike against the fabric of
our society. They want us to be paralyzed. I just read a good article:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/628351_asp.htm, of ten things we can do as
citizens of this country to show that we are NOT paralyzed.
But I look at all of this, and as I try to deal with the thoughts of all
the lives ended in terror, I realize that we, as Americans, have been
taking our good fortune in this world a little too much for granted.
While I don't agree with all of the people that tend to criticize all that
the US does overseas, there is a part of me in all of this that, while it
cannot in any way justify these murderers actions, nevertheless can see,
in a very small way, that our position in the world may be part of the
seed that flowered so tragically on Tuesday.
There are millions, if not billions of people in this world that are, I
believe, in unity about the barbarity and the incomprehensible nature of
this event.
What we do next will tell the tale.
-randy
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Joe Mabel wrote:
> Thank you, Sharma, for your very reasonable comments.
>
> As for er-chan:
> I feel a little uncomfortable addressing someone I don't know over issues
about
> which they are obviously very emotional, but when you write what you did,
I'm
> rather offended.
>
> Of course I don't 'agree with what those monsters did', nor do
> I support the Interahamwe in East Africa nor the actions of the Russian
> government in Chechnya, etc. ad nauseum. Unlike the US government, I can
> honestly claim never have to collaborated with (or even said a good word
about)
> Osama bin Laden (US ally against the Soviets in the Eighties) or Saddam
Hussein
> (US ally against Iran in the Eighties).
>
> I'm not a pacifist, but tell me, er-chan: exactly whom am I supposed to be
at
> war with? At the moment, I happen to be working in London, Englad, so my
reports
> from Seattle are sketchy. I do hear that people have been making bomb
threats
> against the mosque on Northgate. Is this the war for which you wish to
enlist
> me?
>
> SCN was not conceived to be a battleground. It was conceived as a place to
> exchange ideas and information. I would hope that we would stick to a
standard
> that the cure for the ills of free speech is more free speech. It is my
strong
> expectation that (barring only the need to stay withi the laws of libel or
> slander), our correct way of dealing with offensive content is to respond
to it,
> not to suppress it.
>
> That said, I'm sure pro-war propaganda is not short of outlets in the US
right
> now. I doubt SCN would be serving its primary purpose if it were to see
itself
> primarily in terms of serving the cause of any side in any war.
>
> Again, I will ask, as I asked before: is there specific content currently
on SCN
> that you are objecting to? If so, spell out what that content is.
Otherwise, you
> are coming on like Sen. Joe McCarthy claiming that the laundry list in his
hand
> was a list of 57 communists in the State Department. Is there specific
content
> you think we should link to that we don't link to? If so, spell out what
that
> content is. Or start a web page of your own, linking to the content you
think is
> inappropriately omitted from SCN, and ask SCN to link to that. If they
> try to turn you down, I'll certainly be on your side in that fight.
>
> --------------------
> Joe Mabel
>
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, sharma wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > er-chan wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > JJ> I think we need to _add_ links to diverse sites, and
_especially_
> > > JJ> sites we don't agree with.
> > >
> > > JJ>
> > >
> > > Do you agree with what the monsters did? Would you add a site
> > > to recruit more suicide bombers? base 3
> > >
> > > Now for the homerun? Why have you and Rod CLark not addressed
> > > the issues ? Today is National Day of Mourning. Got anything
> > > on the website that mentions that these innocent people died and
> > > you are sorry about it? Get with it, in a war there are sides.
> > > !!!!Which side are you on? If you're not with us you're against
us.!!!!
> >
> > Please do not stoop to such hysterical language in
> > attempting to have others do what you wish. That
> > is mob talk and is definitely not needed at this
> > time of sadness for all those who have died.
> > Please do not think you are honoring the dead by
> > such heated words.
> >
> > We the living need justice....
> >
> > -sharma
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>
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