From jj at scn.org Sun Jun 10 11:02:08 2012 From: jj at scn.org (J. Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. Message-ID: There were eventually 15 people at the SCNA meeting, some old-hands (Joel, Alan, Randy, Doug Schuler, Jean Buskin, etc.), some who "want to help". The bottom line: Randy has some new hardware on which he has setup Wikimedia and some blogging software, demonstrating that they could be made available on SCN. Particular ramifications don't seem to have been considered, hadn't been discussed by the time I left (15:15). One person did ask what the library thinks about this; the library hasn't been asked. If bandwidth requirements (supplied through the library) exploded Joel thinks it would be practicable to rent rack-space somewhere. Various interesting comments. At the start Joel said the focus was on finding "new services more attractive to the public ... or a phased plan for shutting the operation down." No follow-up on that last option. (Also: "We can come up with leadng [?] ideas just as well as anyone else....") The past wasn't under consideration. Alan: "Going over history not as useful as going ahead...." (Unless, of course you want to learn from it.) Randy said there were three or four new e-mail accounts in the last year; someone else (Alan?) said it was more like a dozen. As to the number of SCNA members, based on those paying dues in the past year, Joel said "about ten". Doug made a very pertinent comment: "There has to be some kind of social innovation that sells the project." That is, just having some technology is not enough. (But not discussed.) Various other chit-chat, but these are the highlights. Unless things got going hot and furious after I left you didn't miss much not attending. === JJohnson ===================================================== * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From kgillgren at igc.org Sun Jun 10 11:49:58 2012 From: kgillgren at igc.org (Ken Gillgren) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 11:49:58 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Thanks for the update, JJ, I was hoping to attend but had a last-minute project deadline I had cover during that time. I am still interested in keeping up with SCN and exploring options for its future. I don't think the issue is so much in the area of technical innovation or marketable services as it is in addressing the persistent gap in access and effective use of current/emerging technologies to undergird broader and more effective civic engagement by the traditionally disenfranchised, increasingly including immigrant and refugee communities. I think there are needs that something like SCN could position itself to address at a lower scale, with greater impact, but probably not in its current form/structure. And I have no sense of legacy support issues, that is, SCN's stated or assumed obligations to its legacy constituents, however many that includes. Just thinkin... Thanks, Ken Gillgren On 6/10/2012 11:02 AM, J. Johnson wrote: > There were eventually 15 people at the SCNA meeting, some old-hands (Joel, > Alan, Randy, Doug Schuler, Jean Buskin, etc.), some who "want to help". > The bottom line: Randy has some new hardware on which he has setup > Wikimedia and some blogging software, demonstrating that they could be > made available on SCN. Particular ramifications don't seem to have been > considered, hadn't been discussed by the time I left (15:15). One person > did ask what the library thinks about this; the library hasn't been asked. > If bandwidth requirements (supplied through the library) exploded Joel > thinks it would be practicable to rent rack-space somewhere. > > Various interesting comments. At the start Joel said the focus was on > finding "new services more attractive to the public ... or a phased plan > for shutting the operation down." No follow-up on that last option. (Also: > "We can come up with leadng [?] ideas just as well as anyone else....") > > The past wasn't under consideration. Alan: "Going over history not as > useful as going ahead...." (Unless, of course you want to learn from it.) > > Randy said there were three or four new e-mail accounts in the last year; > someone else (Alan?) said it was more like a dozen. As to the number of > SCNA members, based on those paying dues in the past year, Joel said > "about ten". > > Doug made a very pertinent comment: "There has to be some kind of social > innovation that sells the project." That is, just having some technology > is not enough. (But not discussed.) > > Various other chit-chat, but these are the highlights. Unless things got > going hot and furious after I left you didn't miss much not attending. > > === JJohnson ===================================================== > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randy at scn.org Sun Jun 10 13:15:28 2012 From: randy at scn.org (Randy Groves) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:15:28 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> References: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Message-ID: A couple of salient points that JJ left out - I don't know whether he'd left by that time or not, but there was definitely extended discussion of the fact that there are still many people who do not have any connection, or have minimal connection, and also that the current web is moving farther and farther away from web pages that can easily support people with various disabilities. One of the challenges that the implementation of new hardware/software is intended to address is the fact that the current environment of the SCN system is based on, well, let's just put it bluntly - ancient technology. If we are going to be able to attract anyone to help in implementing any of the facilities above - or any new facilities, for that matter, we need to have a platform that is a known quantity amongst prospective volunteers. There were several very good suggestions for software that we could implement that allow access to some of the current aspects of the web, Twitter, blogs, etc., within a textual framework. But the technology is only a tool. It exists to be the vehicle to express whatever vision/path that this organization decides is the way forward - and deciding what that vision is, fleshing it out, and making it real takes people. All kinds of people, not just techies. Joel was right in his statement that the meeting was somewhat of a decision point - do we attempt to rejuvenate the organization - is there still interest in doing the work to make it have more relevance that it does today? Or do we start the process for an orderly shutdown? I was very heartened by the attendance and the discussion. I think that there is still much power and relevance in the original principles statements and the commitments to access, service, democracy, world community and the future. It's not going to be easy - and success is by no means assured. We have challenges. We do not want to implement new services that leave our current user base out. We need to find a way to move the dialup and BBmenu logins to a platform that can be supported by today's technology. We need to rejuvenate the membership in the organization. A membership drive and an election needs to be completed - as soon as possible, preferably within the next three months. We decided on setting up a mailing list (I know, another one) with folks that attended the meeting as the initial members. But perhaps scn at scn.orgmight be the appropriate venue instead. But that doesn't give folks that are on this list that DON'T want to discuss the future of SCN/SCNA to weigh in on whether they want to be a part of the discussion or not. I could go either way. -randy On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ken Gillgren wrote: > Thanks for the update, JJ, I was hoping to attend but had a last-minute > project deadline I had cover during that time. > > I am still interested in keeping up with SCN and exploring options for its > future. > > I don't think the issue is so much in the area of technical innovation or > marketable services as it is in addressing the persistent gap in access and > effective use of current/emerging technologies to undergird broader and > more effective civic engagement by the traditionally disenfranchised, > increasingly including immigrant and refugee communities. > > I think there are needs that something like SCN could position itself to > address at a lower scale, with greater impact, but probably not in its > current form/structure. And I have no sense of legacy support issues, that > is, SCN's stated or assumed obligations to its legacy constituents, however > many that includes. > > Just thinkin... > > Thanks, > > Ken Gillgren > > > On 6/10/2012 11:02 AM, J. Johnson wrote: > >> There were eventually 15 people at the SCNA meeting, some old-hands (Joel, >> Alan, Randy, Doug Schuler, Jean Buskin, etc.), some who "want to help". >> The bottom line: Randy has some new hardware on which he has setup >> Wikimedia and some blogging software, demonstrating that they could be >> made available on SCN. Particular ramifications don't seem to have been >> considered, hadn't been discussed by the time I left (15:15). One person >> did ask what the library thinks about this; the library hasn't been asked. >> If bandwidth requirements (supplied through the library) exploded Joel >> thinks it would be practicable to rent rack-space somewhere. >> >> Various interesting comments. At the start Joel said the focus was on >> finding "new services more attractive to the public ... or a phased plan >> for shutting the operation down." No follow-up on that last option. (Also: >> "We can come up with leadng [?] ideas just as well as anyone else....") >> >> The past wasn't under consideration. Alan: "Going over history not as >> useful as going ahead...." (Unless, of course you want to learn from it.) >> >> Randy said there were three or four new e-mail accounts in the last year; >> someone else (Alan?) said it was more like a dozen. As to the number of >> SCNA members, based on those paying dues in the past year, Joel said >> "about ten". >> >> Doug made a very pertinent comment: "There has to be some kind of social >> innovation that sells the project." That is, just having some technology >> is not enough. (But not discussed.) >> >> Various other chit-chat, but these are the highlights. Unless things got >> going hot and furious after I left you didn't miss much not attending. >> >> === JJohnson ==============================**======================= >> >> >> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * >> To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org >> In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn >> >> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sc at sdf.lonestar.org Sun Jun 10 14:30:56 2012 From: sc at sdf.lonestar.org (sc at sdf.lonestar.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Message-ID: > We decided on setting up a mailing list (I know, another one) Randy, If you can find someone with current access to the SCN system who wants to do it, please transfer the ownership of the old scn list to whoever that is. It would cut down on my spam-bounce messages. Thanks. Almost the only volunteer Internet thing I'm doing these days is helping with Marty McLaren's Web site (marty4ssd.com). It'd be nice to have a place to stream video of public meetings and such, and not be limited to 32kbps or 48kbps .mp3 audio files. I've tried Youtube and it works, but it'd be nice to have a better alternative. The Seattle Channel's School Board videos are 256kbps for the audio and video combined. That's about the same bandwidth as some MP3 Internet radio streams. Low-end video is starting to be less far-fetched than it used to be. Even bumping the bitrate to twice that might be less laughable than you think. What would be particularly fun is eventually developing the capability to stream video live from field locations via Wifi or cell phone data links. People are out there doing stuff. It's not all text. Would SCN potentially be interested in anything like this? Rod Clark sc at sdf.org * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From jmabel at speakeasy.org Sun Jun 10 17:49:26 2012 From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (jmabel) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 17:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Message-ID: I presume the reference bakc there to "implementing wikimedia" meant "implementing wikimedia" which is the software used by the Wikimedia Foundation projects. I'd be all for that, but I hope someone knows what they are getting into: as wikis go, that's the Ferrari: does a lot of cool stuff, but tends to need more maintenance than most. Re there being almost no members: gee, anyone think that has anything to do with not sending anyone any reminders when their memberships expire? I never deliberately intended to cease to be a member, it's just that unlike *every* other non-profit I've been involved with, no one reminded me to pay. But another reason probably is half a decade or so without calling a board election. Again, several years back while I *was* still a paid-up member, I expressed an interest in running for the Board, only to find out that there was no election to run in. Meanwhile, I continue to actively maintain http://www.scn.org/crisis and its subordinate pages. -------------------- Joe Mabel * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randy at scn.org Mon Jun 11 10:01:09 2012 From: randy at scn.org (Randy Groves) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:01:09 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Message-ID: The idea certainly has potential. A topic that came up several times at the meeting and does need to be addressed at some point is that we are hugely at the mercy of SPL and their network connection. I was not privy to any discussions specifically on this issue, but in the past there have been (via hearsay) statements by the library to the effect that if we start becoming a drain on the resources, we may be asked to leave. So that has to be kept in the back of our minds as we contemplate additional services. In a way, it would be a positive, though - to become popular enough again that we pose a dilemma for the library ... -randy On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:30 PM, wrote: > We decided on setting up a mailing list (I know, another one) >> > > Randy, > > If you can find someone with current access to the SCN system > who wants to do it, please transfer the ownership of the old scn > list to whoever that is. It would cut down on my spam-bounce > messages. Thanks. > > Almost the only volunteer Internet thing I'm doing these days is > helping with Marty McLaren's Web site (marty4ssd.com). It'd be > nice to have a place to stream video of public meetings and > such, and not be limited to 32kbps or 48kbps .mp3 audio files. > I've tried Youtube and it works, but it'd be nice to have a > better alternative. > > The Seattle Channel's School Board videos are 256kbps for the > audio and video combined. That's about the same bandwidth as > some MP3 Internet radio streams. Low-end video is starting to be > less far-fetched than it used to be. Even bumping the bitrate to > twice that might be less laughable than you think. What would be > particularly fun is eventually developing the capability to > stream video live from field locations via Wifi or cell phone > data links. People are out there doing stuff. It's not all text. > Would SCN potentially be interested in anything like this? > > Rod Clark > sc at sdf.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mtsvme at scn.org Mon Jun 11 13:24:19 2012 From: mtsvme at scn.org (Victor Eskenazi) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:24:19 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Message-ID: i got my first email account thru scn - way back when - and for a while attended some meetings. a number of years ago, with a gmail account, i had any scn email forwarded - and on rare occasions may get something. other than as a web site providing non-commercial space for non-profits, really, what purpose does scn serve anymore? i pity anyone dependent on dial-up internet "service". depending on location, even watching low-cost dsl downloading is like watching paint dry - in the rain... :-) DOES anyone use dial-up, scn webmail or pine for email??? just wondering . . . maybe scn can do whatever needs to do on commercial servers with purchase of a web site??? v On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Randy Groves wrote: > The idea certainly has potential. A topic that came up several times at > the meeting and does need to be addressed at some point is that we are > hugely at the mercy of SPL and their network connection. I was not privy > to any discussions specifically on this issue, but in the past there have > been (via hearsay) statements by the library to the effect that if we start > becoming a drain on the resources, we may be asked to leave. So that has > to be kept in the back of our minds as we contemplate additional services. > In a way, it would be a positive, though - to become popular enough again > that we pose a dilemma for the library ... > > -randy > > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:30 PM, wrote: > >> We decided on setting up a mailing list (I know, another one) >>> >> >> Randy, >> >> If you can find someone with current access to the SCN system >> who wants to do it, please transfer the ownership of the old scn >> list to whoever that is. It would cut down on my spam-bounce >> messages. Thanks. >> >> Almost the only volunteer Internet thing I'm doing these days is >> helping with Marty McLaren's Web site (marty4ssd.com). It'd be >> nice to have a place to stream video of public meetings and >> such, and not be limited to 32kbps or 48kbps .mp3 audio files. >> I've tried Youtube and it works, but it'd be nice to have a >> better alternative. >> >> The Seattle Channel's School Board videos are 256kbps for the >> audio and video combined. That's about the same bandwidth as >> some MP3 Internet radio streams. Low-end video is starting to be >> less far-fetched than it used to be. Even bumping the bitrate to >> twice that might be less laughable than you think. What would be >> particularly fun is eventually developing the capability to >> stream video live from field locations via Wifi or cell phone >> data links. People are out there doing stuff. It's not all text. >> Would SCN potentially be interested in anything like this? >> >> Rod Clark >> sc at sdf.org >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sc at sdf.lonestar.org Mon Jun 11 13:54:12 2012 From: sc at sdf.lonestar.org (sc at sdf.lonestar.org) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > ... we are hugely at the mercy of SPL and their network > connection. I was not privy to any discussions specifically > on this issue, but in the past there have been (via hearsay) > statements by the library to the effect that if we start > becoming a drain on the resources, we may be asked to leave. Randy, Unless there's a crunch looming at the Library right away, the HTML pages (all of the Web site as such) could stay on the Web server at the Library, while any multimedia files or other large data files could be served from an SCN server in another data center, e.g. files.scn.org. That way, if there were to be a big increase in data transfer, almost all of it would happen outside the Library's network. Starting small with one external server and an inexpensive network connection could get SCN's feet wet with developing some additional capacity outside the Library. Here in Seattle there's a tentacle of something called 100TB.com that provides high bandwidth connections, and there probably are other similar operations. Something like that now seems to cost a few hundred dollars a month and up. I'm completely unfamiliar with this, and who knows exactly how much of the stated maximum data transfer would actually be usable in practice. But if, say, 10TB were to be inadequate for SCN in the near future I would be surprised. In the very beginning, just to play with some things, maybe even start with a VPS instead of setting up a colocated server. A little unmanaged VPS at the place we're using costs $10/month and allows a maximum data transfer of 300 GB/month, though how optimistic that figure is I don't know. With the blog we're using 15 GB/month on some sort of "cloud server" - don't ask me exactly how cloudy it is. If we went from 32kbps MP3s to 640x360 video at 500kbps, that'd up the monthly transfer from ~15 GB to ~250 GB/month, which would probably mean moving to a bit larger VPS than the little one mentioned above. Anyway, have some fun and experiment. After a while the result might be that SCN would be better prepared to expand, and to cope with the Library's limitations at some point further on. Rod * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randy at scn.org Mon Jun 11 13:54:50 2012 From: randy at scn.org (Randy Groves) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:54:50 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD4EC56.4010903@igc.org> Message-ID: Some interesting data points: Statistics for month preceding 010112 : Total SCN logins: 2671 Total scnhub logins: 758 Statistics for month preceding 020112 : Total SCN logins: 2287 Total scnhub logins: 241 Statistics for month preceding 030112 : Total SCN logins: 2191 Total scnhub logins: 630 Statistics for month preceding 040112 : Total SCN logins: 2430 Total scnhub logins: 742 Statistics for month preceding 050112 : Total SCN logins: 2461 Total scnhub logins: 705 Statistics for month preceding 060112 : Total SCN logins: 2377 Total scnhub logins: 602 scnhub logins are those that come in over the telephone lines. So the answer is - yes, people do still use the phone lines. I haven't looked into the data to determine how many separate logins that represents, but that could be easily done. -randy On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Victor Eskenazi wrote: > i got my first email account thru scn - way back when - and for a while > attended some meetings. > > a number of years ago, with a gmail account, i had any scn email forwarded > - and on rare occasions may get something. > > other than as a web site providing non-commercial space for non-profits, > really, what purpose does scn serve anymore? > > i pity anyone dependent on dial-up internet "service". depending on > location, even watching low-cost dsl downloading is like watching paint dry > - in the rain... :-) > > DOES anyone use dial-up, scn webmail or pine for email??? > > just wondering . . . maybe scn can do whatever needs to do on commercial > servers with purchase of a web site??? > > v > > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Randy Groves wrote: > >> The idea certainly has potential. A topic that came up several times at >> the meeting and does need to be addressed at some point is that we are >> hugely at the mercy of SPL and their network connection. I was not privy >> to any discussions specifically on this issue, but in the past there have >> been (via hearsay) statements by the library to the effect that if we start >> becoming a drain on the resources, we may be asked to leave. So that has >> to be kept in the back of our minds as we contemplate additional services. >> In a way, it would be a positive, though - to become popular enough again >> that we pose a dilemma for the library ... >> >> -randy >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:30 PM, wrote: >> >>> We decided on setting up a mailing list (I know, another one) >>>> >>> >>> Randy, >>> >>> If you can find someone with current access to the SCN system >>> who wants to do it, please transfer the ownership of the old scn >>> list to whoever that is. It would cut down on my spam-bounce >>> messages. Thanks. >>> >>> Almost the only volunteer Internet thing I'm doing these days is >>> helping with Marty McLaren's Web site (marty4ssd.com). It'd be >>> nice to have a place to stream video of public meetings and >>> such, and not be limited to 32kbps or 48kbps .mp3 audio files. >>> I've tried Youtube and it works, but it'd be nice to have a >>> better alternative. >>> >>> The Seattle Channel's School Board videos are 256kbps for the >>> audio and video combined. That's about the same bandwidth as >>> some MP3 Internet radio streams. Low-end video is starting to be >>> less far-fetched than it used to be. Even bumping the bitrate to >>> twice that might be less laughable than you think. What would be >>> particularly fun is eventually developing the capability to >>> stream video live from field locations via Wifi or cell phone >>> data links. People are out there doing stuff. It's not all text. >>> Would SCN potentially be interested in anything like this? >>> >>> Rod Clark >>> sc at sdf.org >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ljbeedle at scn.org Mon Jun 11 23:31:55 2012 From: ljbeedle at scn.org (ljbeedle at scn.org) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:31:55 +0000 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. Message-ID: <201206121331.GAA29728@scn4.scn.org> I am on dialup, I use SCN for email. There is probably some sort of count available as to hits on the email system for pickup of email. Lois * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From ljbeedle at scn.org Mon Jun 11 23:41:03 2012 From: ljbeedle at scn.org (ljbeedle at scn.org) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:41:03 +0000 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. Message-ID: <201206121341.GAA00798@scn4.scn.org> I store all my org videos on YouTube and slide shows on Picasa. However I don't think that helps the data transfer amount. If we got in a pinch I could always ship folks off to those sites instead of letting them view via the html page. I also have several large pdf files in the Washington Pioneer directory. Not sure where I could store those. They don't get used often but someone always seems to be looking for them. Do we have anyone keeping track of the bandwidth being used by our visitors? It would seem to me that with the library providing wifi in all locations - for free - plus allowing ebook borrows with a 25 book limit - that we might just be a very tiny blip on their horizon. Lois > On Mon, 11 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > > ... we are hugely at the mercy of SPL and their network > > connection. I was not privy to any discussions specifically > > on this issue, but in the past there have been (via hearsay) > > statements by the library to the effect that if we start > > becoming a drain on the resources, we may be asked to leave. > > Randy, > > Unless there's a crunch looming at the Library right away, the > HTML pages (all of the Web site as such) could stay on the Web > server at the Library, while any multimedia files or other large > data files could be served from an SCN server in another data > center, e.g. files.scn.org. That way, if there were to be a big > increase in data transfer, almost all of it would happen outside > the Library's network. > > Starting small with one external server and an inexpensive > network connection could get SCN's feet wet with developing some > additional capacity outside the Library. Here in Seattle there's > a tentacle of something called 100TB.com that provides high > bandwidth connections, and there probably are other similar > operations. Something like that now seems to cost a few hundred > dollars a month and up. I'm completely unfamiliar with this, and > who knows exactly how much of the stated maximum data transfer > would actually be usable in practice. But if, say, 10TB were to > be inadequate for SCN in the near future I would be surprised. > > In the very beginning, just to play with some things, maybe even > start with a VPS instead of setting up a colocated server. A > little unmanaged VPS at the place we're using costs $10/month > and allows a maximum data transfer of 300 GB/month, though how > optimistic that figure is I don't know. With the blog we're > using 15 GB/month on some sort of "cloud server" - don't ask me > exactly how cloudy it is. If we went from 32kbps MP3s to 640x360 > video at 500kbps, that'd up the monthly transfer from ~15 GB to > ~250 GB/month, which would probably mean moving to a bit larger > VPS than the little one mentioned above. > > Anyway, have some fun and experiment. After a while the result > might be that SCN would be better prepared to expand, and to > cope with the Library's limitations at some point further on. > > Rod > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From jj at scn.org Tue Jun 12 13:55:55 2012 From: jj at scn.org (J. Johnson) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:55:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alan Miller has said that some of the comments I reported from the meeting were taken out of context. Which I find curious. I am sure that everyone on this list understands the broader context of a decade and more of a dysfunctional organization, and the history thereof, and the persons involved. That there is not more "context" from the meeting itself -- well, did anyone else think to take notes? If anyone feels I have misreported anything please tell us so that the record (such as it is) can be corrected. Because lacking a prepared agenda and recorded notes, this meeting is now just a bunch of divergent, fading memories. Several of us were some what surprised to hear the Board had enough gumption to call a meeting, let alone show enough intitiative to call for some suggestions. But it seems like they didn't. It appears that the prime mover here is Randy ("technical consultant to the Board"), who figured out how some nifty applications (i.e., WikiMedia and a blog package) could be plugged into SCN. So the Board wasn't asking for suggestions regarding SCN/SCNA at all. They were reacting to being completely df'ed by a particular possibility. And they have absolutely no more conception of how to manage this then they have ever had. And that is the crux of the problem. The SCNA Board is quite inable to manage the organization in their charge. They can't even manage themselves, to the extent of holding the legally required meetings. (But they do have "errors and omissions" insurance, lest anyone sues them.) Being unable to manage some simple services, they have this idea that adding complex services will automatically fix everything. Which raises the edifice higher, but fixes nothing. I would be more impressed if they would honestly try to fix a few problems, rather than stack them higher. === JJohnson ===================================================== * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randomgrace at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 14:18:07 2012 From: randomgrace at gmail.com (Randy Groves) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:18:07 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: JJ - I am a bit non-plussed that you sat in the back of the room, didn't want to identify yourself, did not make any suggestions (good or bad), then left. (And I know I wasn't able to chat on the phone recently - it just wasn't a good time ...) Why does everyone feel the need to hash over the past? Why can't we just 'get over it', and attempt to identify and assemble the good parts of what is left into something that functions? Everyone casts stones at the 'non-functional board', but no-one ever takes a look at where THEY'VE been over the last 10 years. Remember the old adage that when you point one finger at someone, there are 4 pointing back at you. Yes - there have been problems. Let's fix them looking toward the future, rather than looking toward the past. And I dispute the contention that no suggestions vis a vis SCN/SCNA were requested. You may have left by then, but I remember (and yes this is a defect - we didn't have an official secretary) quite a bit of discussion about visions of the future in the latter part of the meeting. -randy On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:55 PM, J. Johnson wrote: > Alan Miller has said that some of the comments I reported from the meeting > were taken out of context. Which I find curious. I am sure that everyone > on this list understands the broader context of a decade and more of a > dysfunctional organization, and the history thereof, and the persons > involved. That there is not more "context" from the meeting itself -- > well, did anyone else think to take notes? If anyone feels I have > misreported anything please tell us so that the record (such as it is) can > be corrected. Because lacking a prepared agenda and recorded notes, this > meeting is now just a bunch of divergent, fading memories. > > Several of us were some what surprised to hear the Board had enough > gumption to call a meeting, let alone show enough intitiative to call for > some suggestions. But it seems like they didn't. It appears that the > prime mover here is Randy ("technical consultant to the Board"), who > figured out how some nifty applications (i.e., WikiMedia and a blog > package) could be plugged into SCN. So the Board wasn't asking for > suggestions regarding SCN/SCNA at all. They were reacting to being > completely df'ed by a particular possibility. And they have absolutely no > more conception of how to manage this then they have ever had. > > And that is the crux of the problem. The SCNA Board is quite inable to > manage the organization in their charge. They can't even manage > themselves, to the extent of holding the legally required meetings. (But > they do have "errors and omissions" insurance, lest anyone sues them.) > Being unable to manage some simple services, they have this idea that > adding complex services will automatically fix everything. Which raises > the edifice higher, but fixes nothing. > > I would be more impressed if they would honestly try to fix a few > problems, rather than stack them higher. > > === JJohnson ===================================================== > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kgillgren at igc.org Tue Jun 12 14:35:53 2012 From: kgillgren at igc.org (Ken Gillgren) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:35:53 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> Hey, Randy, did any on capture (or does anyone recall) any of the future visions conversation. I would be very interested in hearing what people were sharing on that issue. And did anyone collect email addresses of the folks who attended. I'm glad this list is helping facilitate some conversation, but I'm not so confident that everyone who attended is on this list. Thanks all, Ken Gillgren On 6/12/2012 2:18 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > JJ - I am a bit non-plussed that you sat in the back of the room, > didn't want to identify yourself, did not make any suggestions (good > or bad), then left. (And I know I wasn't able to chat on the phone > recently - it just wasn't a good time ...) > > Why does everyone feel the need to hash over the past? Why can't we > just 'get over it', and attempt to identify and assemble the good > parts of what is left into something that functions? > > Everyone casts stones at the 'non-functional board', but no-one ever > takes a look at where THEY'VE been over the last 10 years. Remember > the old adage that when you point one finger at someone, there are 4 > pointing back at you. > > Yes - there have been problems. Let's fix them looking toward the > future, rather than looking toward the past. > > And I dispute the contention that no suggestions vis a vis SCN/SCNA > were requested. You may have left by then, but I remember (and yes > this is a defect - we didn't have an official secretary) quite a bit > of discussion about visions of the future in the latter part of the > meeting. > > -randy > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:55 PM, J. Johnson > wrote: > > Alan Miller has said that some of the comments I reported from the > meeting > were taken out of context. Which I find curious. I am sure that > everyone > on this list understands the broader context of a decade and more of a > dysfunctional organization, and the history thereof, and the persons > involved. That there is not more "context" from the meeting itself -- > well, did anyone else think to take notes? If anyone feels I have > misreported anything please tell us so that the record (such as it > is) can > be corrected. Because lacking a prepared agenda and recorded > notes, this > meeting is now just a bunch of divergent, fading memories. > > Several of us were some what surprised to hear the Board had enough > gumption to call a meeting, let alone show enough intitiative to > call for > some suggestions. But it seems like they didn't. It appears that the > prime mover here is Randy ("technical consultant to the Board"), who > figured out how some nifty applications (i.e., WikiMedia and a blog > package) could be plugged into SCN. So the Board wasn't asking for > suggestions regarding SCN/SCNA at all. They were reacting to being > completely df'ed by a particular possibility. And they have > absolutely no > more conception of how to manage this then they have ever had. > > And that is the crux of the problem. The SCNA Board is quite > inable to > manage the organization in their charge. They can't even manage > themselves, to the extent of holding the legally required > meetings. (But > they do have "errors and omissions" insurance, lest anyone sues them.) > Being unable to manage some simple services, they have this idea that > adding complex services will automatically fix everything. Which > raises > the edifice higher, but fixes nothing. > > I would be more impressed if they would honestly try to fix a few > problems, rather than stack them higher. > > === JJohnson ===================================================== > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randomgrace at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 14:58:39 2012 From: randomgrace at gmail.com (Randy Groves) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:58:39 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> References: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> Message-ID: We've got a lot to learn. There was a roster sheet circulated, but some people added e-mail addresses and some didn't. I don't have that in hand (I believe that Alan has it). We asked folks to send me an e-mail to be put on a list to discuss these topics, but I've only gotten about 4 responses. I think that I might invite them to this list, rather than creating another. I see scn at scn.org more for the philosophical discussions - not necessarily where we'll get any work done. But we've got to start somewhere. I do remember some good discussion around the topic of accessibility, and several applications were made known to me that would be perfect for inclusion in added services. The fact that most of them are not connected with the behemoths of Facebook, Twitter, and Google was also of interest. There will be another meeting - I believe that the tentative timing is in a month's time. There's plenty to do. -randy On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Ken Gillgren wrote: > Hey, Randy, did any on capture (or does anyone recall) any of the future > visions conversation. I would be very interested in hearing what people > were sharing on that issue. > > And did anyone collect email addresses of the folks who attended. I'm glad > this list is helping facilitate some conversation, but I'm not so confident > that everyone who attended is on this list. > > Thanks all, > > Ken Gillgren > > > On 6/12/2012 2:18 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > > JJ - I am a bit non-plussed that you sat in the back of the room, didn't > want to identify yourself, did not make any suggestions (good or bad), then > left. (And I know I wasn't able to chat on the phone recently - it just > wasn't a good time ...) > > Why does everyone feel the need to hash over the past? Why can't we just > 'get over it', and attempt to identify and assemble the good parts of what > is left into something that functions? > > Everyone casts stones at the 'non-functional board', but no-one ever takes > a look at where THEY'VE been over the last 10 years. Remember the old > adage that when you point one finger at someone, there are 4 pointing back > at you. > > Yes - there have been problems. Let's fix them looking toward the future, > rather than looking toward the past. > > And I dispute the contention that no suggestions vis a vis SCN/SCNA were > requested. You may have left by then, but I remember (and yes this is a > defect - we didn't have an official secretary) quite a bit of discussion > about visions of the future in the latter part of the meeting. > > -randy > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:55 PM, J. Johnson wrote: > >> Alan Miller has said that some of the comments I reported from the meeting >> were taken out of context. Which I find curious. I am sure that everyone >> on this list understands the broader context of a decade and more of a >> dysfunctional organization, and the history thereof, and the persons >> involved. That there is not more "context" from the meeting itself -- >> well, did anyone else think to take notes? If anyone feels I have >> misreported anything please tell us so that the record (such as it is) can >> be corrected. Because lacking a prepared agenda and recorded notes, this >> meeting is now just a bunch of divergent, fading memories. >> >> Several of us were some what surprised to hear the Board had enough >> gumption to call a meeting, let alone show enough intitiative to call for >> some suggestions. But it seems like they didn't. It appears that the >> prime mover here is Randy ("technical consultant to the Board"), who >> figured out how some nifty applications (i.e., WikiMedia and a blog >> package) could be plugged into SCN. So the Board wasn't asking for >> suggestions regarding SCN/SCNA at all. They were reacting to being >> completely df'ed by a particular possibility. And they have absolutely no >> more conception of how to manage this then they have ever had. >> >> And that is the crux of the problem. The SCNA Board is quite inable to >> manage the organization in their charge. They can't even manage >> themselves, to the extent of holding the legally required meetings. (But >> they do have "errors and omissions" insurance, lest anyone sues them.) >> Being unable to manage some simple services, they have this idea that >> adding complex services will automatically fix everything. Which raises >> the edifice higher, but fixes nothing. >> >> I would be more impressed if they would honestly try to fix a few >> problems, rather than stack them higher. >> >> === JJohnson ===================================================== >> >> >> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * >> To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org >> In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sc at sdf.lonestar.org Tue Jun 12 16:43:30 2012 From: sc at sdf.lonestar.org (sc at sdf.lonestar.org) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> References: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> Message-ID: On 6/12/2012 2:18 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > ... > Everyone casts stones at the 'non-functional board' Randy, Yes, and for the good reason that SCNA is one of the poorest excuses for a non-profit membership corporation in the city of Seattle. When do you plan to hold the annual membership meeting and election? It's about nine years behind schedule at the moment, I believe. Either let SCNA become a real membership corporation again, or get used to the fact that very few people will donate countless hours to such a volunteer-unfriendly organization. You've had about ten years to learn that lesson, that has been staring you in the face all that time, and clearly haven't learned it. Lots of people still wish SCN well. But sane people aren't going to sink a lot of volunteer time into an ongoing mess that your presidents-for-life are incapable of fixing and, as seen by their actions over the years and continuing on in the present, don't want to fix. Once SCNA returns to the the volunteer-friendly ideals and the good practices it had when it started, then I think you'll see some interest again from volunteers. Give people some time to pay their dues and become members again (or become members by donating the equivalent amount in volunteer time as SCN used to do), hold a real membership meeting and election so that the volunteers can elect new board members (all of them, since no one has been legitimately elected by the membership in about the past eight to ten years), find a cheerful and competent volunteer coordinator, and go from there. Rod * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From bd166 at scn.org Tue Jun 12 17:12:04 2012 From: bd166 at scn.org (bd166 at scn.org) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: Question... Message-ID: Was this list started by a clinical psychologist ? * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randomgrace at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 17:07:59 2012 From: randomgrace at gmail.com (Randy Groves) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:07:59 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> Message-ID: No argument whatsoever that the annual meeting is way overdue. Okay - so it is. What are we going to do about it? The solution you have described in the last paragraph is exactly the plan. Expect to see an announcement of another general meeting (for next month) for starters. Then someone (probably someones) needs to troll through the membership database and figure out how to communicate with the list of past members (no easy task - any volunteers?) Then some folks need to put together a mailing (probably should be real mail, with real paper forms) - any volunteers? Then some folks have to process any membership applications that are returned - any volunteers? Then some folks have to put together an annual meeting - any volunteers? Then some folks have to attend the annual meeting and vote. I figure those tasks could take at least a month or possibly two (or maybe three), if we started right now, from start to finish. Especially if you are assuming that this is ONLY a task of those few individuals that make up what I would call the interim board. Looks to me like there are plenty of volunteer opportunities before we even get to the objective. And it won't happen unless there's some help. -randy On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 4:43 PM, wrote: > On 6/12/2012 2:18 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > >> ... >> >> Everyone casts stones at the 'non-functional board' >> > > Randy, > > Yes, and for the good reason that SCNA is one of the poorest > excuses for a non-profit membership corporation in the city of > Seattle. > > When do you plan to hold the annual membership meeting and > election? It's about nine years behind schedule at the moment, I > believe. > > Either let SCNA become a real membership corporation again, or > get used to the fact that very few people will donate countless > hours to such a volunteer-unfriendly organization. You've had > about ten years to learn that lesson, that has been staring you > in the face all that time, and clearly haven't learned it. > > Lots of people still wish SCN well. But sane people aren't going > to sink a lot of volunteer time into an ongoing mess that your > presidents-for-life are incapable of fixing and, as seen by > their actions over the years and continuing on in the present, > don't want to fix. > > Once SCNA returns to the the volunteer-friendly ideals and the > good practices it had when it started, then I think you'll see > some interest again from volunteers. > > Give people some time to pay their dues and become members again > (or become members by donating the equivalent amount in > volunteer time as SCN used to do), hold a real membership > meeting and election so that the volunteers can elect new board > members (all of them, since no one has been legitimately elected > by the membership in about the past eight to ten years), find a > cheerful and competent volunteer coordinator, and go from there. > > Rod > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmabel at speakeasy.org Tue Jun 12 18:31:16 2012 From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (jmabel) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> Message-ID: Isn't there a rule that people have to be members for some period of time before being allowed to vote? So don't we have to build in a deliberate delay at a certain point in the process to allow people who re-join to reach that amount of time? Or am I wrong about this? -------------------- Joe Mabel On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > No argument whatsoever that the annual meeting is way overdue. Okay - so > it is. What are we going to do about it? > > The solution you have described in the last paragraph is exactly the plan. > Expect to see an announcement of another general meeting (for next month) > for starters. > > Then someone (probably someones) needs to troll through the membership > database and figure out how to communicate with the list of past members > (no easy task - any volunteers?) > Then some folks need to put together a mailing (probably should be real > mail, with real paper forms) - any volunteers? > Then some folks have to process any membership applications that are > returned - any volunteers? > Then some folks have to put together an annual meeting - any volunteers? > Then some folks have to attend the annual meeting and vote. > > I figure those tasks could take at least a month or possibly two (or maybe > three), if we started right now, from start to finish. Especially if you > are assuming that this is ONLY a task of those few individuals that make up > what I would call the interim board. > > Looks to me like there are plenty of volunteer opportunities before we even > get to the objective. And it won't happen unless there's some help. > > -randy > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 4:43 PM, wrote: > > > On 6/12/2012 2:18 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > > > >> ... > >> > >> Everyone casts stones at the 'non-functional board' > >> > > > > Randy, > > > > Yes, and for the good reason that SCNA is one of the poorest > > excuses for a non-profit membership corporation in the city of > > Seattle. > > > > When do you plan to hold the annual membership meeting and > > election? It's about nine years behind schedule at the moment, I > > believe. > > > > Either let SCNA become a real membership corporation again, or > > get used to the fact that very few people will donate countless > > hours to such a volunteer-unfriendly organization. You've had > > about ten years to learn that lesson, that has been staring you > > in the face all that time, and clearly haven't learned it. > > > > Lots of people still wish SCN well. But sane people aren't going > > to sink a lot of volunteer time into an ongoing mess that your > > presidents-for-life are incapable of fixing and, as seen by > > their actions over the years and continuing on in the present, > > don't want to fix. > > > > Once SCNA returns to the the volunteer-friendly ideals and the > > good practices it had when it started, then I think you'll see > > some interest again from volunteers. > > > > Give people some time to pay their dues and become members again > > (or become members by donating the equivalent amount in > > volunteer time as SCN used to do), hold a real membership > > meeting and election so that the volunteers can elect new board > > members (all of them, since no one has been legitimately elected > > by the membership in about the past eight to ten years), find a > > cheerful and competent volunteer coordinator, and go from there. > > > > Rod > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randomgrace at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 23:38:37 2012 From: randomgrace at gmail.com (Randy Groves) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:38:37 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. In-Reply-To: References: <4FD7B639.8030706@igc.org> Message-ID: >From the bylaws on the site (http://www.scn.org/scna/bylaws.txt) - definition of member: 3.1. To become a member of Seattle Community Network Association an applicant (a) shall pay the membership fee; (b) shall agree to comply during membership with the Bylaws; (c) shall agree that the membership may be terminated at any time by action of the Board of Directors in the manner as provided in these Bylaws for violations of such Bylaws or for any other conduct deemed by the Board of Directors to be prejudicial to the best interests of the Corporation.  An active member is one who has paid their annual membership dues. There is a requirement to notify the membership 30 days before the annual meeting of the date and location, but I do not see anything that requires that there be any 'waiting period' before a member can participate in an election. -randy On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 6:31 PM, jmabel wrote: > Isn't there a rule that people have to be members for some period of time before > being allowed to vote? So don't we have to build in a deliberate delay at a > certain point in the process to allow people who re-join to reach that amount of > time? Or am I wrong about this? > > -------------------- > Joe Mabel > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > >> No argument whatsoever that the annual meeting is way overdue.  Okay - so >> it is.  What are we going to do about it? >> >> The solution you have described in the last paragraph is exactly the plan. >> Expect to see an announcement of another general meeting (for next month) >> for starters. >> >> Then someone (probably someones) needs to troll through the membership >> database and figure out how to communicate with the list of past members >> (no easy task - any volunteers?) >> Then some folks need to put together a mailing (probably should be real >> mail, with real paper forms) - any volunteers? >> Then some folks have to process any membership applications that are >> returned - any volunteers? >> Then some folks have to put together an annual meeting - any volunteers? >> Then some folks have to attend the annual meeting and vote. >> >> I figure those tasks could take at least a month or possibly two (or maybe >> three), if we started right now, from start to finish.  Especially if you >> are assuming that this is ONLY a task of those few individuals that make up >> what I would call the interim board. >> >> Looks to me like there are plenty of volunteer opportunities before we even >> get to the objective.  And it won't happen unless there's some help. >> >> -randy >> >> On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 4:43 PM, wrote: >> >> > On 6/12/2012 2:18 PM, Randy Groves wrote: >> > >> >> ... >> >> >> >> Everyone casts stones at the 'non-functional board' >> >> >> > >> > Randy, >> > >> > Yes, and for the good reason that SCNA is one of the poorest >> > excuses for a non-profit membership corporation in the city of >> > Seattle. >> > >> > When do you plan to hold the annual membership meeting and >> > election? It's about nine years behind schedule at the moment, I >> > believe. >> > >> > Either let SCNA become a real membership corporation again, or >> > get used to the fact that very few people will donate countless >> > hours to such a volunteer-unfriendly organization. You've had >> > about ten years to learn that lesson, that has been staring you >> > in the face all that time, and clearly haven't learned it. >> > >> > Lots of people still wish SCN well. But sane people aren't going >> > to sink a lot of volunteer time into an ongoing mess that your >> > presidents-for-life are incapable of fixing and, as seen by >> > their actions over the years and continuing on in the present, >> > don't want to fix. >> > >> > Once SCNA returns to the the volunteer-friendly ideals and the >> > good practices it had when it started, then I think you'll see >> > some interest again from volunteers. >> > >> > Give people some time to pay their dues and become members again >> > (or become members by donating the equivalent amount in >> > volunteer time as SCN used to do), hold a real membership >> > meeting and election so that the volunteers can elect new board >> > members (all of them, since no one has been legitimately elected >> > by the membership in about the past eight to ten years), find a >> > cheerful and competent volunteer coordinator, and go from there. >> > >> > Rod >> > >> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From ljbeedle at scn.org Mon Jun 11 23:31:55 2012 From: ljbeedle at scn.org (ljbeedle at scn.org) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 06:31:55 +0000 Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. Message-ID: <201206121331.GAA29728@scn4.scn.org> I am on dialup, I use SCN for email. There is probably some sort of count available as to hits on the email system for pickup of email. Lois * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From jj at scn.org Thu Jun 14 10:38:59 2012 From: jj at scn.org (J. Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCNA general meeting 6/9. Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > No argument whatsoever that the annual meeting is way overdue. Okay - so > it is. What are we going to do about it? Duh, I don't know. Hold a meeting? (What a novel suggestion!) Isn't this EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING? FOR EIGHT YEARS? And why is this mention of a plan to hold a meeting coming coming from you, and not from any of the putative Board members? I say it is because they are incapable of doing it themselves. (Or unwilling.) I say they are missing in action, and that a necessary condition for revitalizing SCNA is to DUMP this Board. Of course, that does lead to the question of who is to replace them. (A point that has ham-strung us before.) That is a matter that cannot be resolved "at a meeting". It needs to be hammered out before hand. Like various other issues, such as: who are the members? It was reported at the 6/9 meeting that there are "about ten". (Who are they?) Strictly speaking, _they_ can have a meeting, as _they_ are the "owners; the rest of us are just bystanders, without legal standing. If the rest of us want to change this, how do we do it? Have the Board, as a final act of contrition, annoint a bunch of us as members? What is the plan? There are a number of issues that would be best worked out before any meeting. And this list would be a fine place to start the discussions. (Plural, because several discussions are needed.) === JJohnson ===================================================== * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From sc at sdf.lonestar.org Wed Jun 20 23:08:16 2012 From: sc at sdf.lonestar.org (sc at sdf.lonestar.org) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: SCN2 list subscription page and archive In-Reply-To: <20120621060227.0EE3ABF7C8@scn.org> References: <20120621060227.0EE3ABF7C8@scn.org> Message-ID: Randy Groves wrote: http://scn9.scn.org/mailman/confirm/scn2/... Randy, In case anyone wants to use a different e-mail address than the one they used to sign up for the SCN list many years ago, they can do so at the list's info and subscription page: http://scn9.scn.org/mailman/listinfo/scn2 For those who don't want to join the SCN2 list right now, but would like to keep up with the discussions, the list is publicly archived, and is viewable at: http://scn9.scn.org/pipermail/scn2 Rod * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randomgrace at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 08:23:10 2012 From: randomgrace at gmail.com (Randy Groves) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:23:10 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? Message-ID: You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called scn2. The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to include folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a different machine than, and has better mail list management software than the scn list on Majordomo. But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and get a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who don't want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first certainly has merit. So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we have about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this is the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the scn list. Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? -randy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmabel at speakeasy.org Thu Jun 21 08:54:14 2012 From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (jmabel) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 08:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me to make more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to imagine that anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want to at least observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* interested in that would be on scn at scn.org. -------------------- Joe Mabel On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called scn2. > The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a > chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to include > folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - > the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a > different machine than, and has better mail list management software than > the scn list on Majordomo. > > But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? > > Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and get > a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who don't > want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first > certainly has merit. > > So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we have > about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me > know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this is > the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the scn > list. > > Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? > > -randy > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From douglas at publicsphereproject.org Thu Jun 21 09:18:18 2012 From: douglas at publicsphereproject.org (Doug Schuler) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 09:18:18 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to everybody who was invited to the meeting in the first place. That way the invitees would get some information about the project. They'd get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a meeting and that there is a feeling that we can move forward. I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody to join the scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have and how they could participate more if they choose to. It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN member. Thanks! On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: > Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me to make > more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to imagine that > anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want to at least > observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* interested > in that would be on scn at scn.org. > > -------------------- > Joe Mabel > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > >> You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called scn2. >> The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a >> chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to include >> folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - >> the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a >> different machine than, and has better mail list management software than >> the scn list on Majordomo. >> >> But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? >> >> Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and get >> a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who don't >> want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first >> certainly has merit. >> >> So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we have >> about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me >> know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this is >> the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the scn >> list. >> >> Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? >> >> -randy >> > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn Douglas Schuler douglas at publicsphereproject.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ Public Sphere Project http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mtsvme at scn.org Thu Jun 21 11:54:02 2012 From: mtsvme at scn.org (Victor Eskenazi) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:54:02 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> References: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> Message-ID: i'm confused as to which list is "this" list or "that" list or list list... i'd say that everyone that is a scn member and/or has an scn account/email has a stake - invite everyone - to opt in . . . "postage" is cheap! v On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler < douglas at publicsphereproject.org> wrote: > > I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. > > What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to everybody > who > was invited to the meeting in the first place. > > That way the invitees would get some information about the project. They'd > get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a meeting and that > there > is a feeling that we can move forward. > > I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody to join the > scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have and how they > could participate more if they choose to. > > It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN member. > > Thanks! > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: > > Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me to > make > more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to imagine > that > anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want to at > least > observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* > interested > in that would be on scn at scn.org. > > -------------------- > Joe Mabel > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > > You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called scn2. > > The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a > > chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to include > > folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - > > the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a > > different machine than, and has better mail list management software than > > the scn list on Majordomo. > > > But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? > > > Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and get > > a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who don't > > want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first > > certainly has merit. > > > So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we have > > about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me > > know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this is > > the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the scn > > list. > > > Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? > > > -randy > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > > Douglas Schuler > douglas at publicsphereproject.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! > http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ > > Public Sphere Project > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution > (project) > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randomgrace at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 12:56:40 2012 From: randomgrace at gmail.com (Randy Groves) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:56:40 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> References: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> Message-ID: So you're saying send out a report to all the users of SCN? That's who was invited. Not saying that we should or shouldn't, but just be aware that sending to all the users of SCN takes a day or more - if we do it in a way that doesn't bring the system to its knees. -randy On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler < douglas at publicsphereproject.org> wrote: > > I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. > > What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to everybody > who > was invited to the meeting in the first place. > > That way the invitees would get some information about the project. They'd > get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a meeting and that > there > is a feeling that we can move forward. > > I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody to join the > scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have and how they > could participate more if they choose to. > > It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN member. > > Thanks! > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: > > Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me to > make > more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to imagine > that > anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want to at > least > observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* > interested > in that would be on scn at scn.org. > > -------------------- > Joe Mabel > > On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > > You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called scn2. > > The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a > > chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to include > > folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - > > the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a > > different machine than, and has better mail list management software than > > the scn list on Majordomo. > > > But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? > > > Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and get > > a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who don't > > want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first > > certainly has merit. > > > So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we have > > about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me > > know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this is > > the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the scn > > list. > > > Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? > > > -randy > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > > Douglas Schuler > douglas at publicsphereproject.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! > http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ > > Public Sphere Project > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution > (project) > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sc at sdf.lonestar.org Thu Jun 21 13:16:03 2012 From: sc at sdf.lonestar.org (sc at sdf.lonestar.org) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: Fwd: bounced messages from Doug and Victor Message-ID: At least one and maybe both of these seem to have bounced from the SCN list, or at least I didn't receive either of them. Rod ----- Begin forwarded message: Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:54:02 -0700 From: Victor Eskenazi To: Doug Schuler Subject: Re: SCN: scn2 list or this one? i'm confused as to which list is "this" list or "that" list or list list... i'd say that everyone that is a scn member and/or has an scn account/email has a stake - invite everyone - to opt in . . . "postage" is cheap! v On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler wrote: > I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. > > What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to > everybody who was invited to the meeting in the first place. > > That way the invitees would get some information about the > project. They'd get a little closure on the fact that we > actually had a meeting and that there is a feeling that we can > move forward. > > I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody > to join the scn list so they could hear about what ideas we > have and how they could participate more if they choose to. > > It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN > member. > > Thanks! * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From douglas at publicsphereproject.org Thu Jun 21 15:09:59 2012 From: douglas at publicsphereproject.org (Doug Schuler) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:09:59 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> Message-ID: <9F1259D4-90F1-4458-B955-9305132CDD39@publicsphereproject.org> Thanks, Randy. Yes, that is my recommendation. I thought it was a good idea to invite everybody and it seems like the right thing to do now to let them know what happened at the meeting. (I don't mind the fact that it takes the machine a day or more -- I hope it doesn't require that kind of attention from you or any other human!) And while I don't think we should send notes to the whole list all the time I strongly believe that the SCN community should receive updates several times a year. To my mind this would be necessary part of any rebuilding effort. I'd be happy to draft, review, or contribute to the note. Let me know! -- Doug On Jun 21, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > So you're saying send out a report to all the users of SCN? That's who was invited. Not saying that we should or shouldn't, but just be aware that sending to all the users of SCN takes a day or more - if we do it in a way that doesn't bring the system to its knees. > > -randy > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler wrote: > > I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. > > What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to everybody who > was invited to the meeting in the first place. > > That way the invitees would get some information about the project. They'd > get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a meeting and that there > is a feeling that we can move forward. > > I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody to join the > scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have and how they > could participate more if they choose to. > > It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN member. > > Thanks! > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: > >> Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me to make >> more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to imagine that >> anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want to at least >> observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* interested >> in that would be on scn at scn.org. >> >> -------------------- >> Joe Mabel >> >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: >> >>> You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called scn2. >>> The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a >>> chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to include >>> folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - >>> the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a >>> different machine than, and has better mail list management software than >>> the scn list on Majordomo. >>> >>> But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? >>> >>> Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and get >>> a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who don't >>> want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first >>> certainly has merit. >>> >>> So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we have >>> about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me >>> know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this is >>> the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the scn >>> list. >>> >>> Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? >>> >>> -randy >>> >> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * >> To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org >> In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > Douglas Schuler > douglas at publicsphereproject.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! > http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ > > Public Sphere Project > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 > > > > Douglas Schuler douglas at publicsphereproject.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ Public Sphere Project http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randomgrace at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 15:43:38 2012 From: randomgrace at gmail.com (Randy Groves) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 15:43:38 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: <9F1259D4-90F1-4458-B955-9305132CDD39@publicsphereproject.org> References: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> <9F1259D4-90F1-4458-B955-9305132CDD39@publicsphereproject.org> Message-ID: There's another meeting tentatively scheduled for the 14th (I believe Alan has made the reservation - and changed the main SCN page), so I'm going to be sending out another announcement probably tomorrow. Both Alan and Joel made notes - possibly others did as well - but at least the collected notes should also be part of that announcement. -randy On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Doug Schuler < douglas at publicsphereproject.org> wrote: > > Thanks, Randy. > > Yes, that is my recommendation. I thought it was a good idea to invite > everybody and it seems like the right thing to do now to let them know what > happened at the meeting. (I don't mind the fact that it takes the machine a > day or more -- I hope it doesn't require that kind of attention from you or > any other human!) > > And while I don't think we should send notes to the whole list all the > time I strongly believe that the SCN community should receive updates > several times a year. To my mind this would be necessary part of any > rebuilding effort. > > I'd be happy to draft, review, or contribute to the note. Let me know! > > -- Doug > > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > > So you're saying send out a report to all the users of SCN? That's who > was invited. Not saying that we should or shouldn't, but just be aware > that sending to all the users of SCN takes a day or more - if we do it in a > way that doesn't bring the system to its knees. > > -randy > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler < > douglas at publicsphereproject.org> wrote: > >> >> I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. >> >> What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to everybody >> who >> was invited to the meeting in the first place. >> >> That way the invitees would get some information about the project. They'd >> get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a meeting and that >> there >> is a feeling that we can move forward. >> >> I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody to join >> the >> scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have and how they >> could participate more if they choose to. >> >> It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN member. >> >> Thanks! >> >> On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: >> >> Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me to >> make >> more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to imagine >> that >> anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want to at >> least >> observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* >> interested >> in that would be on scn at scn.org. >> >> -------------------- >> Joe Mabel >> >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: >> >> You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called scn2. >> >> The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a >> >> chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to >> include >> >> folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - >> >> the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a >> >> different machine than, and has better mail list management software than >> >> the scn list on Majordomo. >> >> >> But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? >> >> >> Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and >> get >> >> a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who don't >> >> want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first >> >> certainly has merit. >> >> >> So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we >> have >> >> about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me >> >> know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this is >> >> the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the scn >> >> list. >> >> >> Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? >> >> >> -randy >> >> >> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * >> To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org >> In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn >> >> >> Douglas Schuler >> douglas at publicsphereproject.org >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! >> http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ >> >> Public Sphere Project >> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ >> >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >> (project) >> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ >> >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) >> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 >> >> >> >> > > Douglas Schuler > douglas at publicsphereproject.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! > http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ > > Public Sphere Project > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution > (project) > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From douglas at publicsphereproject.org Thu Jun 21 16:06:27 2012 From: douglas at publicsphereproject.org (Doug Schuler) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:06:27 -0700 Subject: SCN: SCNA members Message-ID: At the meeting Joel suggested that SCNA has 10 members. I suggested that everybody who attended the meeting (15 people?) should now be members due to their volunteering. I don't think there was any controversy over that. I'd like to be reinstated. I suspect that the lack of a feeling of ownership in the organization these past few years is probably at the heart of the inaction. -- Doug Douglas Schuler douglas at publicsphereproject.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ Public Sphere Project http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mtsvme at scn.org Fri Jun 22 10:01:55 2012 From: mtsvme at scn.org (Victor Eskenazi) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:01:55 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: <174C8A32-30C5-4B3D-9EA5-F664AB5908B6@publicsphereproject.org> <9F1259D4-90F1-4458-B955-9305132CDD39@publicsphereproject.org> Message-ID: i like that doug! it brings to mind - varying levels of commitment/membership... anyone with an email or website - has an automatic stake - allow them to opt in on updates - several times a year (everyone has email overload!) just by having some level of information - without pressure - never know when someone might find a place to lend a hand. example: for a number of years i was considered an active volunteer at XXX. mostly hung out - and just talked to visitors. just by being there i learned, and occasionally i found other ways i could help out. as that situation ended, i could always go back to just hanging out and talking to visitors. then - change in the board and management - need to focus on $$$ just hanging out and talking with visitors was suddenly not good enough . . . i left! we both lost out! re: scn - by having the chance to just know what's happening - and maybe the opportunity for feedback and run ideas - could enlist a greater sense of purpose for scn for more people ??? just thinking outloud... v On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > There's another meeting tentatively scheduled for the 14th (I believe Alan > has made the reservation - and changed the main SCN page), so I'm going to > be sending out another announcement probably tomorrow. Both Alan and Joel > made notes - possibly others did as well - but at least the collected notes > should also be part of that announcement. > > -randy > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Doug Schuler < > douglas at publicsphereproject.org> wrote: > >> >> Thanks, Randy. >> >> Yes, that is my recommendation. I thought it was a good idea to invite >> everybody and it seems like the right thing to do now to let them know what >> happened at the meeting. (I don't mind the fact that it takes the machine a >> day or more -- I hope it doesn't require that kind of attention from you or >> any other human!) >> >> And while I don't think we should send notes to the whole list all the >> time I strongly believe that the SCN community should receive updates >> several times a year. To my mind this would be necessary part of any >> rebuilding effort. >> >> I'd be happy to draft, review, or contribute to the note. Let me know! >> >> -- Doug >> >> >> On Jun 21, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Randy Groves wrote: >> >> So you're saying send out a report to all the users of SCN? That's who >> was invited. Not saying that we should or shouldn't, but just be aware >> that sending to all the users of SCN takes a day or more - if we do it in a >> way that doesn't bring the system to its knees. >> >> -randy >> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler < >> douglas at publicsphereproject.org> wrote: >> >>> >>> I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. >>> >>> What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to everybody >>> who >>> was invited to the meeting in the first place. >>> >>> That way the invitees would get some information about the project. >>> They'd >>> get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a meeting and that >>> there >>> is a feeling that we can move forward. >>> >>> I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody to join >>> the >>> scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have and how they >>> could participate more if they choose to. >>> >>> It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN member. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: >>> >>> Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me to >>> make >>> more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to >>> imagine that >>> anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want to >>> at least >>> observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* >>> interested >>> in that would be on scn at scn.org. >>> >>> -------------------- >>> Joe Mabel >>> >>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: >>> >>> You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called >>> scn2. >>> >>> The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this list a >>> >>> chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to >>> include >>> >>> folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). Also - >>> >>> the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on a >>> >>> different machine than, and has better mail list management software than >>> >>> the scn list on Majordomo. >>> >>> >>> But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? >>> >>> >>> Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list and >>> get >>> >>> a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who >>> don't >>> >>> want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first >>> >>> certainly has merit. >>> >>> >>> So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning we >>> have >>> >>> about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please let me >>> >>> know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think this >>> is >>> >>> the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to the >>> scn >>> >>> list. >>> >>> >>> Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? >>> >>> >>> -randy >>> >>> >>> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * >>> To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org >>> In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn >>> >>> >>> Douglas Schuler >>> douglas at publicsphereproject.org >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! >>> http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ >>> >>> Public Sphere Project >>> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ >>> >>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >>> (project) >>> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ >>> >>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >>> (book) >>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Douglas Schuler >> douglas at publicsphereproject.org >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! >> http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ >> >> Public Sphere Project >> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ >> >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution >> (project) >> http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ >> >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) >> http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jj at scn.org Fri Jun 22 12:50:52 2012 From: jj at scn.org (J. Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 12:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In general I would say _this_ list ("scn"), because this is the one we have always used for this discussion. But: A distinction could be made between talking about what can be done on SCN, and the broader problems with SCNA. It might be useful to have a separate SCNA list. === JJohnson ===================================================== * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From randy at scn.org Fri Jun 22 13:05:07 2012 From: randy at scn.org (Randy Groves) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:05:07 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My guess is that the two will tend to blend together fairly quickly. And I'm a little concerned about folks who are new to the conversations being confused as to which list to use. Looks like 20+ on this list have already voted, as there were that many subscribed the last time I checked. -randy On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 12:50 PM, J. Johnson wrote: > In general I would say _this_ list ("scn"), because this is the one we > have always used for this discussion. > > But: A distinction could be made between talking about what can be done on > SCN, and the broader problems with SCNA. It might be useful to have a > separate SCNA list. > > === JJohnson ===================================================== > > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From douglas at publicsphereproject.org Fri Jun 22 13:11:23 2012 From: douglas at publicsphereproject.org (Doug Schuler) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:11:23 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd suggest keeping them together for now. I, for one, think that the two entities are fairly tightly linked. -- Doug On Jun 22, 2012, at 12:50 PM, J. Johnson wrote: > In general I would say _this_ list ("scn"), because this is the one we > have always used for this discussion. > > But: A distinction could be made between talking about what can be done on > SCN, and the broader problems with SCNA. It might be useful to have a > separate SCNA list. > > === JJohnson ===================================================== > > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn Douglas Schuler douglas at publicsphereproject.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ Public Sphere Project http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmabel at speakeasy.org Fri Jun 22 13:05:31 2012 From: jmabel at speakeasy.org (jmabel) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think there's enough overlap, and the distinction is subtle enough in many cases, that it is simpler to keep the discussion in one place, at least for now. If later we are really rolling again, then of course there will be reason to have several quite distinct working groups. -------------------- Joe Mabel On Fri, 22 Jun 2012, J. Johnson wrote: > In general I would say _this_ list ("scn"), because this is the one we > have always used for this discussion. > > But: A distinction could be made between talking about what can be done on > SCN, and the broader problems with SCNA. It might be useful to have a > separate SCNA list. > > === JJohnson ===================================================== > > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From ljbeedle at scn.org Fri Jun 22 09:28:21 2012 From: ljbeedle at scn.org (ljbeedle at scn.org) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 16:28:21 +0000 Subject: SCN: Re: Meeting Notes Message-ID: <201206222328.QAA11840@scn4.scn.org> I realize that there may not have been official minutes (though I would think there would be) but meeting notes of some sort should be posted on the website for all SCN folks to see. Another way of keeping them informed and a reminder that SCN is still alive. Lois > > Thanks, Randy. > > Yes, that is my recommendation. I thought it was a good idea to invite > everybody and it seems like the right thing to do now to let them know > what happened at the meeting. (I don't mind the fact that it takes the > machine a day or more -- I hope it doesn't require that kind of > attention from you or any other human!) > > And while I don't think we should send notes to the whole list all the > time I strongly believe that the SCN community should receive updates > several times a year. To my mind this would be necessary part of any > rebuilding effort. > > I'd be happy to draft, review, or contribute to the note. Let me know! > > > -- Doug > > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Randy Groves wrote: > > > So you're saying send out a report to all the users of SCN? That's > who was invited. Not saying that we should or shouldn't, but just be > aware that sending to all the users of SCN takes a day or more - if we > do it in a way that doesn't bring the system to its knees. > > > > -randy > > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler > wrote: > > > > I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. > > > > What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting sent to > everybody who > > was invited to the meeting in the first place. > > > > That way the invitees would get some information about the project. > They'd > > get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a meeting and > that there > > is a feeling that we can move forward. > > > > I think the note should also extend an invitation to everybody to join > the > > scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have and how they > > could participate more if they choose to. > > > > It also should contain information on how one becomes an SCN member. > > > > Thanks! > > > > On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: > > > >> Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, it seems to me > to make > >> more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's hard for me to > imagine that > >> anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA would not want > to at least > >> observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine why anyone *not* > interested > >> in that would be on scn at scn.org. > >> > >> -------------------- > >> Joe Mabel > >> > >> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: > >> > >>> You should have all received an invitation to join a new list called > scn2. > >>> The intent of creating a new list was to give all of those on this > list a > >>> chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was also a vehicle to > include > >>> folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for whatever reason). > Also - > >>> the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more dependable, on > a > >>> different machine than, and has better mail list management software > than > >>> the scn list on Majordomo. > >>> > >>> But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? > >>> > >>> Fair enough - the other options would have been to canvas this list > and get > >>> a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad for the folks who > don't > >>> want to participate. I don't like the second option, but the first > >>> certainly has merit. > >>> > >>> So - who on this list thinks that whatever discussions and planning > we have > >>> about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this list? Please > let me > >>> know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a majority that think > this is > >>> the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on a new list to > the scn > >>> list. > >>> > >>> Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? > >>> > >>> -randy > >>> > >> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > >> To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > >> In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > > > Douglas Schuler > > douglas at publicsphereproject.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------> ---- > > What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! > > http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/> > > > Public Sphere Project > > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/> > > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution > (project) > > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/> > > > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution > (book) > > > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601> > > > > > > > > > Douglas Schuler > douglas at publicsphereproject.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------> ---- > What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! > http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/> > Public Sphere Project > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/> > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution > (project) > http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/> > Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution > (book) > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=1160> 1 > > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn From douglas at publicsphereproject.org Fri Jun 22 18:13:12 2012 From: douglas at publicsphereproject.org (Doug Schuler) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 18:13:12 -0700 Subject: SCN: Re: Meeting Notes In-Reply-To: <201206222328.QAA11840@scn4.scn.org> References: <201206222328.QAA11840@scn4.scn.org> Message-ID: Speaking of that it jogged my memory that Jean Buskin made the very relevant point that there are still very important issues around privacy and other computer related concerns. These haven't gone away!! And this is embodied in the principles we adopted early on. One suggestion that I made was that I'd like to ask people where did all the community networks go. My hypothesis is that community networking is still going on, while "traditional" community networks are not as popular as they once were. It would be interesting to see what happened to these, circa 1995, community networks: http://www.scn.org/commnet/appC.htm -- Doug On Jun 22, 2012, at 9:28 AM, ljbeedle at scn.org wrote: > I realize that there may not have been official minutes > (though I would think there would be) but meeting notes of > some sort should be posted on the website for all SCN folks > to see. Another way of keeping them informed and a > reminder that SCN is still alive. > > Lois > >> >> Thanks, Randy. >> >> Yes, that is my recommendation. I thought it was a good > idea to invite >> everybody and it seems like the right thing to do now to > let them know >> what happened at the meeting. (I don't mind the fact that > it takes the >> machine a day or more -- I hope it doesn't require that > kind of >> attention from you or any other human!) >> >> And while I don't think we should send notes to the whole > list all the >> time I strongly believe that the SCN community should > receive updates >> several times a year. To my mind this would be necessary > part of any >> rebuilding effort. >> >> I'd be happy to draft, review, or contribute to the note. > Let me know! >> >> >> -- Doug >> >> >> On Jun 21, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Randy Groves wrote: >> >>> So you're saying send out a report to all the users of > SCN? That's >> who was invited. Not saying that we should or shouldn't, > but just be >> aware that sending to all the users of SCN takes a day or > more - if we >> do it in a way that doesn't bring the system to its knees. >>> >>> -randy >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Doug Schuler >> wrote: >>> >>> I think that Joe's right. Let's use the existing list. >>> >>> What I'd like to see is a brief report on the meeting > sent to >> everybody who >>> was invited to the meeting in the first place. >>> >>> That way the invitees would get some information about > the project. >> They'd >>> get a little closure on the fact that we actually had a > meeting and >> that there >>> is a feeling that we can move forward. >>> >>> I think the note should also extend an invitation to > everybody to join >> the >>> scn list so they could hear about what ideas we have > and how they >>> could participate more if they choose to. >>> >>> It also should contain information on how one becomes > an SCN member. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> On Jun 21, 2012, at 8:54 AM, jmabel wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, it sounds reasonable. And, as I've said already, > it seems to me >> to make >>>> more sense to use the exisiting list, because it's > hard for me to >> imagine that >>>> anyone interested in the future/survival of SCN/SCNA > would not want >> to at least >>>> observe this discussion, and equally hard to imagine > why anyone *not* >> interested >>>> in that would be on scn at scn.org. >>>> >>>> -------------------- >>>> Joe Mabel >>>> >>>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2012, Randy Groves wrote: >>>> >>>>> You should have all received an invitation to join a > new list called >> scn2. >>>>> The intent of creating a new list was to give all of > those on this >> list a >>>>> chance to opt in to a new discussion. And it was > also a vehicle to >> include >>>>> folks who aren't presently on the scn list (for > whatever reason). >> Also - >>>>> the scn2 list is being run on Mailman, which is more > dependable, on >> a >>>>> different machine than, and has better mail list > management software >> than >>>>> the scn list on Majordomo. >>>>> >>>>> But as Joe Mabel noted - why not just use the scn list? >>>>> >>>>> Fair enough - the other options would have been to > canvas this list >> and get >>>>> a vote, or just start using this list, and too bad > for the folks who >> don't >>>>> want to participate. I don't like the second option, > but the first >>>>> certainly has merit. >>>>> >>>>> So - who on this list thinks that whatever > discussions and planning >> we have >>>>> about the future of SCN/SCNA should be held on this > list? Please >> let me >>>>> know by next Thursday (the28th). If we have a > majority that think >> this is >>>>> the venue, I'll invite those that requested to be on > a new list to >> the scn >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> Does this sound like a reasonable course of action? >>>>> >>>>> -randy >>>>> >>>> * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * >>>> To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org >>>> In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn >>> >>> Douglas Schuler >>> douglas at publicsphereproject.org >>> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------> > ---- >>> What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror > and find out! >>> href="http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/">http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/> >> >>> Public Sphere Project >>> href="http://www.publicsphereproject.org/">http://www.publicsphereproject.org/> >> >>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for > Communication Revolution >> (project) >>> href="http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/">http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/> >> >>> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for > Communication Revolution >> (book) >>> >> href="http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601">http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Douglas Schuler >> douglas at publicsphereproject.org >> >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------> > ---- >> What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror > and find out! >> href="http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/">http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/> > >> Public Sphere Project >> href="http://www.publicsphereproject.org/">http://www.publicsphereproject.org/> > >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication > Revolution >> (project) >> href="http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/">http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/> > >> Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication > Revolution >> (book) >> > http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=1160> > 1 >> >> >> >> > > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn Douglas Schuler douglas at publicsphereproject.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What Kind of an Activist Are YOU? Play Activist Mirror and find out! http://apps.facebook.com/activist-mirror/ Public Sphere Project http://www.publicsphereproject.org/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (project) http://www.publicsphereproject.org/patterns/ Liberating Voices! A Pattern Language for Communication Revolution (book) http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=11601 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From randy at scn.org Fri Jun 22 19:18:43 2012 From: randy at scn.org (Randy Groves) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 19:18:43 -0700 Subject: SCN: scn2 list or this one? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK - enough dithering on my part. Here's what I propose to do. And apologies for those of you who just subscribed to the scn2 list! For those of you who are just joining us, there is an existing list ' scn at scn.org' that has been in existence since 1995. Many topics have been discussed on the scn list, but the main thread centers around SCN/SCNA and the past, current, and future of the system called SCN and the organization called SCNA. Several people have observed that there will be a lot of overlap between the old list 'scn' and the new list 'scn2', and that there doesn't seem to be a good reason for having two lists. I agree. There was a technical reason that a new list was created - it is running on a different mail list software package that is considerably newer than the software package that runs the older 'scn' list. This newer software package, called Mailman, provides web-based tools for both admins and list members that allow much easier maintenance of the list and of individual member's settings. I propose that the current subscription lists of scn (currently about 50 members) and the newer list (about 20 last check) be merged - under the 'scn' name, and moved to use the newer Mailman software. Unless I hear a great hue and cry, I plan to do this Sunday night. What will that mean for all of the current 'scn' members? Nothing of note. The current alias 'scn at scn.org' will be directed to the new list, so access can be the same as you have always used, or you can also mail to the more direct 'scn at scn9.scn.org'. For those of you who have subscribed to the scn2 list - those of you who are new subscribers - I will send an invite to the combined list - and once you are subscribed, discussion will take place on either 'scn at scn.org' or ' scn at scn9.scn.org' I hope that this all is not too confusing. Hopefully, after these initial bumps in the road we'll be on the way to doing some productive and constructive work getting this old show back on track. Thanks for wading through this note, and - please - if you have any questions feel free to drop me a line. -randy On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 1:05 PM, jmabel wrote: > I think there's enough overlap, and the distinction is subtle enough in > many > cases, that it is simpler to keep the discussion in one place, at least > for now. > If later we are really rolling again, then of course there will be reason > to > have several quite distinct working groups. > > -------------------- > Joe Mabel > > On Fri, 22 Jun 2012, J. Johnson wrote: > > > In general I would say _this_ list ("scn"), because this is the one we > > have always used for this discussion. > > > > But: A distinction could be made between talking about what can be done > on > > SCN, and the broader problems with SCNA. It might be useful to have a > > separate SCNA list. > > > > === JJohnson ===================================================== > > > > > > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > > * * * * * * * * From the Listowner * * * * * * * * > To unsubscribe send a message to: majordomo at scn.org > In the body of the message, type: unsubscribe scn > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: