SCN: hmmm

[Doug Schuler]

I'm not sure how to respond to this.  I do wish that JJ was a little
more sympathetic to SCN's cause.  The Internet was built with *public*
taxpayer money and then handed over to commercial interests. It's
my feeling that there is a strong need for public space & public
access to the information and communcation capabilities of the
Internet.

I do agree that we're "selling" ideas -- let's make ours as
compelling as possible!  We've certainly outlived hundreds of
dot-coms already!!!

-- Doug

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On Fri, 25 May 2001, J. Johnson wrote:

> I agree that all this is largely irrelevant to SCN--our bills are small
> enough that we can live off of the altruistic fat of the land.  Which is
> why I maintain that the argument that was presented is clearer if more
> specifically focused, such as on web search services.
> 
> I don't believe that the use of "private, proprietary classification
> systems" is relevant here.  The essence of the issue is not whether us
> freeloaders can access the data that someone has compiled that effectively
> indexes the Web--it's whether there is any data to start with.  Building
> those databases requires a heavy investment in computers, Internet access,
> and system administration.  If advertisers won't pay those bills, who
> will?
> 
> It should be noted that, truly, "There Ain't No Free Lunch".  SCN has
> "free" Internet access, etc., because we have "sold" various people into
> providing it.  Essentially, we sell an idea.  Others sell advertising.  It
> appears there is more money to be had selling advertising than ideas.
> 
> === JJ =============================================================
> 
> On Fri, 25 May 2001, Doug Schuler wrote:
> 
> > 
> > It is an interesting question -- how are search engines
> > financed.  Unfortunately (for us) search engines are
> > in almost all cases *commercial* entities and, hence,
> > are subject to the same forces as other commercial
> > entities.   I don't claim to know all the details but
> > there is evidence of dropping competitor's information
> > from a search engine's database or of having people pay
> > to get their information to the top in a query.  Also,
> > since search engines use private, proprietary classification
> > systems (unlike public libraries, for example, which use
> > a public system [like Dewey Decimal] which ALL people can use,
> > we have little oversight or ability to plug into it.
> > 
> > -=- Doug
> > 
> > But, all of this is more or less irrelvant to SCN.  Having
> > advertisements support SCN sounds unworkable and almost
> > totally contrary to our mission and principles.
> > 
> >    ******************************************************************
> >    *  New Community Networks: Wired for Change     Now online       *
> >    *               http://www.scn.org/ncn                           *
> >    *     Give us YOUR insights!     Help write the new edition!     *
> >    ******************************************************************
> > 
> > On Fri, 25 May 2001, J. Johnson wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Doug Schuler wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I wanted to add my two cents.
> > > > 
> > > > We see far too many ads already and, in my opinion, it's the
> > > > ads and the commercialization that are killing / will kill the
> > > > Internet.  If ads are the answer then what the heck is the question!
> > > 
> > > The basic question is:  how are "free" services to be financed?
> > > 
> > > I think the argument raised in the original article would have been much
> > > clearer if it had focused more specifically on, say, how are search
> > > engines to be financed.  E.g., who will pay Altavista's bills?  If not the
> > > advertisers, then who?
> > > 
> > > === JJ =============================================================
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

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