SCN: hmmm

[J. Johnson]

Doug, I'm don't understand how you define "SCN's cause" that you should
find me wanting in sympathy--perhaps you could elaborate on that.  I
certainly hope that I am not "suspect"  simply because I am not in full,
enthusiatic, automatic, and unquestioning agreement with your view. 

Your statement that "The Internet was built with *public* taxpayer money and then handed over to commercial interests."



=== JJ =============================================================

On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Doug Schuler wrote:

> 
> I'm not sure how to respond to this.  I do wish that JJ was a little
> more sympathetic to SCN's cause.  The Internet was built with *public*
> taxpayer money and then handed over to commercial interests. It's
> my feeling that there is a strong need for public space & public
> access to the information and communcation capabilities of the
> Internet.
> 
> I do agree that we're "selling" ideas -- let's make ours as
> compelling as possible!  We've certainly outlived hundreds of
> dot-coms already!!!
> 
> -- Doug
> 
>    ******************************************************************
>    *  New Community Networks: Wired for Change     Now online       *
>    *               http://www.scn.org/ncn                           *
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> 
> On Fri, 25 May 2001, J. Johnson wrote:
> 
> > I agree that all this is largely irrelevant to SCN--our bills are small
> > enough that we can live off of the altruistic fat of the land.  Which is
> > why I maintain that the argument that was presented is clearer if more
> > specifically focused, such as on web search services.
> > 
> > I don't believe that the use of "private, proprietary classification
> > systems" is relevant here.  The essence of the issue is not whether us
> > freeloaders can access the data that someone has compiled that effectively
> > indexes the Web--it's whether there is any data to start with.  Building
> > those databases requires a heavy investment in computers, Internet access,
> > and system administration.  If advertisers won't pay those bills, who
> > will?
> > 
> > It should be noted that, truly, "There Ain't No Free Lunch".  SCN has
> > "free" Internet access, etc., because we have "sold" various people into
> > providing it.  Essentially, we sell an idea.  Others sell advertising.  It
> > appears there is more money to be had selling advertising than ideas.
> > 
> > === JJ =============================================================
> > 
> > On Fri, 25 May 2001, Doug Schuler wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > It is an interesting question -- how are search engines
> > > financed.  Unfortunately (for us) search engines are
> > > in almost all cases *commercial* entities and, hence,
> > > are subject to the same forces as other commercial
> > > entities.   I don't claim to know all the details but
> > > there is evidence of dropping competitor's information
> > > from a search engine's database or of having people pay
> > > to get their information to the top in a query.  Also,
> > > since search engines use private, proprietary classification
> > > systems (unlike public libraries, for example, which use
> > > a public system [like Dewey Decimal] which ALL people can use,
> > > we have little oversight or ability to plug into it.
> > > 
> > > -=- Doug
> > > 
> > > But, all of this is more or less irrelvant to SCN.  Having
> > > advertisements support SCN sounds unworkable and almost
> > > totally contrary to our mission and principles.
> > > 
> > >    ******************************************************************
> > >    *  New Community Networks: Wired for Change     Now online       *
> > >    *               http://www.scn.org/ncn                           *
> > >    *     Give us YOUR insights!     Help write the new edition!     *
> > >    ******************************************************************
> > > 
> > > On Fri, 25 May 2001, J. Johnson wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Tue, 22 May 2001, Doug Schuler wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I wanted to add my two cents.
> > > > > 
> > > > > We see far too many ads already and, in my opinion, it's the
> > > > > ads and the commercialization that are killing / will kill the
> > > > > Internet.  If ads are the answer then what the heck is the question!
> > > > 
> > > > The basic question is:  how are "free" services to be financed?
> > > > 
> > > > I think the argument raised in the original article would have been much
> > > > clearer if it had focused more specifically on, say, how are search
> > > > engines to be financed.  E.g., who will pay Altavista's bills?  If not the
> > > > advertisers, then who?
> > > > 
> > > > === JJ =============================================================
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

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