SCN: RE: Re: National Day of Mourning

Irene Mogol bn890 at scn.org
Mon Sep 17 17:16:17 PDT 2001 

Victor, et al, 
I am so terrified that one of our 'higher authorities' will push the PANIC
button (by mistake, just as any one of hits a wrong key & accidently
deletes stuff).  I feel we are in for a tough time ahead with much more to
come.  My gut feeling right now, is that in this week of Jewish High Holy
Days, there will be trouble either this week, Rosh Hashona tonight and
tomorrow or next week for Yom Kippur.  
I don't want revenge - that brings us all down to their level but to wipe
out their leaders, not all the innocent ones.

Haven't had my afternoon report from my daughter yet, so don't know the
actual latest from WTC.
Irene


On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Victor wrote:

> I hear you are very concerned about what happened Tuesday.  Probably for the
> killing of innocent lives as well as the pain inflicted on so many more
> people.  And probably concerned about safety, for yourself, loved ones and
> others.
> 
> I too am concerned about the above.
> 
> I am also very frightened of our government.  I am scared that in their
> efforts, they will cause an even greater amount of pain around the world.
> Already I hear government officials talking about revenge, regardless of the
> loss of innocent life.  Pres. Bush is talking about a war with no borders,
> with no specified enemy, with no measurable goal.
> 
> I fear that some people in this country are NOT taking my needs and the
> needs of people around the world into consideration as they go ahead with
> their strategy.
> 
> While it was just before I was born, I am very much aware of the pain caused
> by another person who wanted to make the world a better place using
> violence.  He was German.
> 
> And I offer the following pledge of allegiance I saw on a t-shirt:
> 
> I pledge allegiance to Mankind and to its flag, for which no one should die;
> and to evolving life on this planet, for living things are precious.
> 
> I pledge to treat all humanely by caring for and respecting others' bodies;
> by understanding others' minds but being true to myself without disrespect;
> and by accepting the emotions of others as I control my own.
> 
> I will have mercy on others with gentle liberty and empathetic justice for
> all.
> 
> -- Misericordia
> Copyright: The Mankind First Co. 1987
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Thomas
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-scn at scn.org [mailto:owner-scn at scn.org]On Behalf Of Randy
> Groves
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:05 AM
> To: scn at scn.org
> Subject: SCN: Re: National Day of Mourning
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit that there is a part of me that in its anger is ready to
> lash out at the nearest target.  There is a part of me that feels that in
> this 'release' there would be some relief to the visceral reactions that I
> am having in trying to wrap my mind around an event that is, in the end,
> not understandable in normal human terms.  I think that there are a lot of
> people that feel this way.
> 
> I don't know what the solutions are.  The people that actually perpetrated
> this monstrosity have already paid.  We can do no more to them.  The
> others that assisted them need to be brought to justice.  How and when
> that happens will unfold - but I hope that we can do it in a way that
> doesn't bring us down to their level.
> 
> The level of hate that was reflected in these acts - which most reasoning
> people would consider insane - is mind bending.  The strength of the
> feeling and conviction carried these people through months, perhaps
> YEARS of preparation.  One note a friend of mine encountered indicated
> that there was precise calculation as to the floors to hit and the
> proper angle of the plane as it hit - in order to topple the buildings,
> not just damage them.  If true, it just makes the enormity of the act
> even more chilling.
> 
> We cannot and should not stoop to the same levels of hate.  That is
> exactly what they want us to do.  This was a strike against the fabric of
> our society.  They want us to be paralyzed.  I just read a good article:
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/628351_asp.htm, of ten things we can do as
> citizens of this country to show that we are NOT paralyzed.
> 
> But I look at all of this, and as I try to deal with the thoughts of all
> the lives ended in terror, I realize that we, as Americans, have been
> taking our good fortune in this world a little too much for granted.
> While I don't agree with all of the people that tend to criticize all that
> the US does overseas, there is a part of me in all of this that, while it
> cannot in any way justify these murderers actions, nevertheless can see,
> in a very small way, that our position in the world may be part of the
> seed that flowered so tragically on Tuesday.
> 
> There are millions, if not billions of people in this world that are, I
> believe, in unity about the barbarity and the incomprehensible nature of
> this event.
> 
> What we do next will tell the tale.
> 
> -randy
> 
> 
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Joe Mabel wrote:
> 
> > Thank you, Sharma, for your very reasonable comments.
> >
> > As for er-chan:
> > I feel a little uncomfortable addressing someone I don't know over issues
> about
> > which they are obviously very emotional, but when you write what you did,
> I'm
> > rather offended.
> >
> > Of course I don't 'agree with what those monsters did', nor do
> > I support the Interahamwe in East Africa nor the  actions of the Russian
> > government in Chechnya, etc. ad nauseum. Unlike the US government, I can
> > honestly claim never have to collaborated with (or even said a good word
> about)
> > Osama bin Laden (US ally against the Soviets in the Eighties) or Saddam
> Hussein
> > (US ally against Iran in the Eighties).
> >
> > I'm not a pacifist, but tell me, er-chan: exactly whom am I supposed to be
> at
> > war with? At the moment, I happen to be working in London, Englad, so my
> reports
> > from Seattle are sketchy. I do hear that people have been making bomb
> threats
> > against the mosque on Northgate. Is this the war for which you wish to
> enlist
> > me?
> >
> > SCN was not conceived to be a battleground. It was conceived as a place to
> > exchange ideas and information. I would hope that we would stick to a
> standard
> > that the cure for the ills of free speech is more free speech. It is my
> strong
> > expectation that (barring only the need to stay withi the laws of libel or
> > slander), our correct way of dealing with offensive content is to respond
> to it,
> > not to suppress it.
> >
> > That said, I'm sure pro-war propaganda is not short of outlets in the US
> right
> > now. I doubt SCN would be serving its primary purpose if it were to see
> itself
> > primarily in terms of serving the cause of any side in any war.
> >
> > Again, I will ask, as I asked before: is there specific content currently
> on SCN
> > that you are objecting to? If so, spell out what that content is.
> Otherwise, you
> > are coming on like Sen. Joe McCarthy claiming that the laundry list in his
> hand
> > was a list of 57 communists in the State Department. Is there specific
> content
> > you think we should link to that we don't link to? If so, spell out what
> that
> > content is. Or start a web page of your own, linking to the content you
> think is
> > inappropriately omitted from SCN, and ask SCN to link to that. If they
> > try to turn you down, I'll certainly be on your side in that fight.
> >
> > --------------------
> > Joe Mabel
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, sharma wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > er-chan wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > JJ>   I think we need to _add_ links to diverse sites, and
> _especially_
> > > > JJ> sites we don't agree with.
> > > >
> > > > JJ>
> > > >
> > > >         Do you agree with what the monsters did?  Would you add a site
> > > > to recruit more suicide bombers?  base 3
> > > >
> > > > Now for the homerun?  Why have you and Rod CLark not addressed
> > > > the issues ?  Today is National Day of Mourning.  Got anything
> > > > on the website that mentions that these innocent people died and
> > > > you are sorry about it? Get with it, in a war there are sides.
> > > > !!!!Which side are you on?  If you're not with us you're against
> us.!!!!
> > >
> > > Please do not stoop to such hysterical language in
> > > attempting to have others do what you wish. That
> > > is mob talk and is definitely not needed at this
> > > time of sadness for all those who have died.
> > > Please do not think you are honoring the dead by
> > > such heated words.
> > >
> > > We the living need justice....
> > >
> > > -sharma
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