SCN: RE: Re: National Day of Mourning
Rich Littleton
be718 at scn.org
Wed Sep 19 01:08:53 PDT 2001
Irene,
I think your concern about the "higher authorities." I worry that they
will use force and end up killing innocent people in the name of innocent
people killed on Sept. 11.
However, US pressure has apparently forced a cease fire in Israel and
Palestine.
______________________________________________________________________
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Irene Mogol wrote:
> Victor, et al,
> I am so terrified that one of our 'higher authorities' will push the PANIC
> button (by mistake, just as any one of hits a wrong key & accidently
> deletes stuff). I feel we are in for a tough time ahead with much more to
> come. My gut feeling right now, is that in this week of Jewish High Holy
> Days, there will be trouble either this week, Rosh Hashona tonight and
> tomorrow or next week for Yom Kippur.
> I don't want revenge - that brings us all down to their level but to wipe
> out their leaders, not all the innocent ones.
>
> Haven't had my afternoon report from my daughter yet, so don't know the
> actual latest from WTC.
> Irene
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Victor wrote:
>
> > I hear you are very concerned about what happened Tuesday. Probably for the
> > killing of innocent lives as well as the pain inflicted on so many more
> > people. And probably concerned about safety, for yourself, loved ones and
> > others.
> >
> > I too am concerned about the above.
> >
> > I am also very frightened of our government. I am scared that in their
> > efforts, they will cause an even greater amount of pain around the world.
> > Already I hear government officials talking about revenge, regardless of the
> > loss of innocent life. Pres. Bush is talking about a war with no borders,
> > with no specified enemy, with no measurable goal.
> >
> > I fear that some people in this country are NOT taking my needs and the
> > needs of people around the world into consideration as they go ahead with
> > their strategy.
> >
> > While it was just before I was born, I am very much aware of the pain caused
> > by another person who wanted to make the world a better place using
> > violence. He was German.
> >
> > And I offer the following pledge of allegiance I saw on a t-shirt:
> >
> > I pledge allegiance to Mankind and to its flag, for which no one should die;
> > and to evolving life on this planet, for living things are precious.
> >
> > I pledge to treat all humanely by caring for and respecting others' bodies;
> > by understanding others' minds but being true to myself without disrespect;
> > and by accepting the emotions of others as I control my own.
> >
> > I will have mercy on others with gentle liberty and empathetic justice for
> > all.
> >
> > -- Misericordia
> > Copyright: The Mankind First Co. 1987
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-scn at scn.org [mailto:owner-scn at scn.org]On Behalf Of Randy
> > Groves
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:05 AM
> > To: scn at scn.org
> > Subject: SCN: Re: National Day of Mourning
> >
> >
> >
> > I have to admit that there is a part of me that in its anger is ready to
> > lash out at the nearest target. There is a part of me that feels that in
> > this 'release' there would be some relief to the visceral reactions that I
> > am having in trying to wrap my mind around an event that is, in the end,
> > not understandable in normal human terms. I think that there are a lot of
> > people that feel this way.
> >
> > I don't know what the solutions are. The people that actually perpetrated
> > this monstrosity have already paid. We can do no more to them. The
> > others that assisted them need to be brought to justice. How and when
> > that happens will unfold - but I hope that we can do it in a way that
> > doesn't bring us down to their level.
> >
> > The level of hate that was reflected in these acts - which most reasoning
> > people would consider insane - is mind bending. The strength of the
> > feeling and conviction carried these people through months, perhaps
> > YEARS of preparation. One note a friend of mine encountered indicated
> > that there was precise calculation as to the floors to hit and the
> > proper angle of the plane as it hit - in order to topple the buildings,
> > not just damage them. If true, it just makes the enormity of the act
> > even more chilling.
> >
> > We cannot and should not stoop to the same levels of hate. That is
> > exactly what they want us to do. This was a strike against the fabric of
> > our society. They want us to be paralyzed. I just read a good article:
> > http://www.msnbc.com/news/628351_asp.htm, of ten things we can do as
> > citizens of this country to show that we are NOT paralyzed.
> >
> > But I look at all of this, and as I try to deal with the thoughts of all
> > the lives ended in terror, I realize that we, as Americans, have been
> > taking our good fortune in this world a little too much for granted.
> > While I don't agree with all of the people that tend to criticize all that
> > the US does overseas, there is a part of me in all of this that, while it
> > cannot in any way justify these murderers actions, nevertheless can see,
> > in a very small way, that our position in the world may be part of the
> > seed that flowered so tragically on Tuesday.
> >
> > There are millions, if not billions of people in this world that are, I
> > believe, in unity about the barbarity and the incomprehensible nature of
> > this event.
> >
> > What we do next will tell the tale.
> >
> > -randy
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Joe Mabel wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you, Sharma, for your very reasonable comments.
> > >
> > > As for er-chan:
> > > I feel a little uncomfortable addressing someone I don't know over issues
> > about
> > > which they are obviously very emotional, but when you write what you did,
> > I'm
> > > rather offended.
> > >
> > > Of course I don't 'agree with what those monsters did', nor do
> > > I support the Interahamwe in East Africa nor the actions of the Russian
> > > government in Chechnya, etc. ad nauseum. Unlike the US government, I can
> > > honestly claim never have to collaborated with (or even said a good word
> > about)
> > > Osama bin Laden (US ally against the Soviets in the Eighties) or Saddam
> > Hussein
> > > (US ally against Iran in the Eighties).
> > >
> > > I'm not a pacifist, but tell me, er-chan: exactly whom am I supposed to be
> > at
> > > war with? At the moment, I happen to be working in London, Englad, so my
> > reports
> > > from Seattle are sketchy. I do hear that people have been making bomb
> > threats
> > > against the mosque on Northgate. Is this the war for which you wish to
> > enlist
> > > me?
> > >
> > > SCN was not conceived to be a battleground. It was conceived as a place to
> > > exchange ideas and information. I would hope that we would stick to a
> > standard
> > > that the cure for the ills of free speech is more free speech. It is my
> > strong
> > > expectation that (barring only the need to stay withi the laws of libel or
> > > slander), our correct way of dealing with offensive content is to respond
> > to it,
> > > not to suppress it.
> > >
> > > That said, I'm sure pro-war propaganda is not short of outlets in the US
> > right
> > > now. I doubt SCN would be serving its primary purpose if it were to see
> > itself
> > > primarily in terms of serving the cause of any side in any war.
> > >
> > > Again, I will ask, as I asked before: is there specific content currently
> > on SCN
> > > that you are objecting to? If so, spell out what that content is.
> > Otherwise, you
> > > are coming on like Sen. Joe McCarthy claiming that the laundry list in his
> > hand
> > > was a list of 57 communists in the State Department. Is there specific
> > content
> > > you think we should link to that we don't link to? If so, spell out what
> > that
> > > content is. Or start a web page of your own, linking to the content you
> > think is
> > > inappropriately omitted from SCN, and ask SCN to link to that. If they
> > > try to turn you down, I'll certainly be on your side in that fight.
> > >
> > > --------------------
> > > Joe Mabel
> > >
> > > On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, sharma wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > er-chan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > JJ> I think we need to _add_ links to diverse sites, and
> > _especially_
> > > > > JJ> sites we don't agree with.
> > > > >
> > > > > JJ>
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you agree with what the monsters did? Would you add a site
> > > > > to recruit more suicide bombers? base 3
> > > > >
> > > > > Now for the homerun? Why have you and Rod CLark not addressed
> > > > > the issues ? Today is National Day of Mourning. Got anything
> > > > > on the website that mentions that these innocent people died and
> > > > > you are sorry about it? Get with it, in a war there are sides.
> > > > > !!!!Which side are you on? If you're not with us you're against
> > us.!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Please do not stoop to such hysterical language in
> > > > attempting to have others do what you wish. That
> > > > is mob talk and is definitely not needed at this
> > > > time of sadness for all those who have died.
> > > > Please do not think you are honoring the dead by
> > > > such heated words.
> > > >
> > > > We the living need justice....
> > > >
> > > > -sharma
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