SCN: Re: Re: principles

[Doug Schuler]

Steve,

It seems to me that we look at the principles through different
eyes.  I'll explain my side and I'd like to hear yours.  It's
hard for me to really believe that we see things so differently
but from your note it does seem that may be true.  In particular
I am one of those people that don't see any need to revisit the
principles with an eye towards changing them.  On the other
hand I see a continuing need to revisit the principles with 
an eye towards seeing where they can lead; what new projects
we might undertake.  Weakening them just because we don't
feel like doing one particular project or because we don't
currently have the resources seems unnecessary to me.

As Patrick and others have pointed out the principles are
just a set of orienting ideas; they aren't a recipe.
In your example of the database, the principles suggest
that we will provide access to databases and other services.
That can mean that we provide the access alone to databases
and services on other systems and/or databases and other
services on our own machine.  I see absolutely no reason
why it's important to say that we will never any of these
services ourselves.  What would be the point of that except
to stunt our own potential? 

The ideals should always be a bit more ideal than those immediately
attainable.  "A man's reach should exceed his grasp..."  This is
a philosophical view I guess but I think it's important for
our vision and growth -- especially in the long term.

-- Doug 

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On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Steve Guest wrote:

> Joe
> This is a personal view.
> 
> I see no problem with the statement - we do not stop SCN being available
> from any place.  I will agree that we do not provide access equipment and we
> never have.  Given that every library in Seattle, King County and several
> other  service offer SCN up front and almost every community center now as
> some public access, the need is limited.  We might wish to teach there, but
> we have no need to provide special equipment or services.
> 
> If you look at the City's DOIT web site under the SCTA, you should find that
> a project they commissioned from the UW showed that we now have even more
> public Internet access then every before and this concluded that there was
> no need for further funding of public access in the City.  We may not
> believe that and are still helping, but it is hard to seek and justify funds
> for what a report says in not required.
> 
> You singled out one point from the principles.  One of the things I was told
> initially when I began to work with SCN was that "the principles" are just
> that, they are an ideal and not the policy.  If you read them there are many
> more entries in that list which are even more questionable.  For example,
> "We will provide access to databases and other services."  In the same way,
> this does not mean that we provide the database nor the data, but the
> access.
> 
> I personally asked to have them revisited, but was told firmly that as a set
> of principles they are sacrosanct and are a part of SCN's culture - much
> like Mickey Mouse is to Disney.  So for me these principles and ideals from
> 1992 are part of SCN heritage.
> 
> To help answer your question on public access, the Board has for the last
> three years been working closely on this with the City of Seattle, which I
> hope you agree is an even more appropriate body to address the issue of
> public access.  I have been asked several times to sit on the Mayor's
> advisory board, but due to the fact that I live in Bellevue - I can't.
> Currently SCN has a City supported project which is giving access to the
> public, by providing equipment and training in needy areas of the City.  So
> the Board is always aware of these issues and does what it can.
> 
> Hopefully, when we get access to the public labs again, we can gear up the
> training group and get it back into action.  Losing all our main teaching
> sites was devastating for the group, but we still teach at a few other sites
> around the City.
> 
> Finally, I do wonder why you chose the comment, "Now that access to SCN
> merely means access to the Internet" as it seems to imply something changed
> and for the worse.  It follows that SCN has stopped offering some functions
> which in some way, you feel, diminishes the hard work of the volunteers of
> the current and evolving services.  Could you explain why or how SCN has
> changed in your eyes?
> 
> Thanks
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Mabel" <jmabel at speakeasy.org>
> To: "Doug Schuler" <douglas at scn.org>
> Cc: "patrick fisher" <clariun at yahoo.com>; "scn" <scn at scn.org>;
> <scna-board at scn.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 11:58 PM
> Subject: BD: Re: principles
> 
> 
> > [SNIP]
> > >      * We will make the SCN accessible from public places.
> > [SNIP]
> >
> > How long since the Board, or some other appropriate body, gave any thought
> to
> > what this now means? Now that access to SCN merely means access to the
> Internet,
> > what (if anything) are we doing to enhance the availability of access to
> the
> > Internet in pubic places?
> >
> > JM
> >
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > scna-board at scn.org is for the purposes of scna board members' internal
> > communications.  Please contact sharma at scn.org if you have questions
> > about this list.
> >
> 
> 

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