SCN: logo ideas
patrick fisher
clariun at yahoo.com
Thu Mar 7 12:19:45 PST 2002
Joe, thanks for writing. Comments follow:
--- Joe Mabel <jmabel at speakeasy.org> wrote:
> So maybe "Placing communities on the web" would make sense (although I still see
> supporting cyberspace "democracy" as even more central to our mission than
> "community"), but "technology" has certainly not been our emphasis. We don't
> even continue to have a program to pass used computers to those who need them.
>
Ti Locke has the Computer Giveaway program. It's tied to SCN and was supposed to be
updated on SCN, but wasn't. I don't have access to altering SCNA directories, so my
hands are tied on this one.
> It seems to me that this effort to revisit a slogan is putting the cart before
> the horse. If it is time to reconsider our mission (and perhaps it is), we
> should have some serious discussion of that mission, develop something like a
> consensus (which, if there is no broad consensus, may be painful and may
> involve some people leaving the group, hopefully not in anger but to start
> groups that focus more in their areas of concern). Then when we agree what we
> are doing, if our current slogan is inappropriate to our new mission, it is
> time to change the slogan.
>
This is really out of my realm to comment on. I'm working on the current mission.
> What is broken about SCN(A)? In my viev:
> - we seem to have lost sight of providing service for the most disadvantaged
> which approximates what is available to other people.
Not to be critical, but could you give some specifics?
> - we have a lot of bickering, blaming, and flaming that discourages active
> participation by capable people.
I don't really see this as a problem. Things aren't too bad for a mailing list.
Certainly no worse than any other.
> - we have not become expert at deploying volunteers to maximum advantage.
I disagree here, from my vantage point. We've brought on some very capable topic
editors and they are all gung-ho for SCN. They do a remarkable job.
> - we have fallen far short of our early goal of being innovators, of
> constituting a model for others in using technology in service to democracy.
That is one bite that is bigger than I can chew. That can encompass so much.
> - we do not, in my opinion, constitute one of the easiest ways to get local,
> public-minded content onto the Web.
I don't believe it is any harder than any other site. It's not too bad. If there is
something that can be fixed, please make a suggestion and I will look at it. I will
admit, though, that making the content on SCN more concise would be very helpful and
I'm working on that!
> - we have never developed any ability at all to truly support other
> likeminded endeavors.
Give me a list and I will take a look. Could you be a little more specific on this
issue?
>
> All of that said, I still think the group has enormous potential and an
> appropriate (if somewhat vague) mission. I'm glad to have the Peace Heathens'
> Crisis Resource Directory be hosted as part of SCN. I'm glad to have it up there
> with no ads and no censorship. I'm glad to have it up there as something to
> strengthen SCN's content offering. But where on SCN are ten other sites equally
> vital to Seattle? Where is the technology that would make our Crisis
> Resource Directory easily searchable? Where is the community (yes, community) of
> other organizations with web content on SCN with which we can share ideas about
> mutually strengthening our offerings? What is SCN doing that it wasn't doing
> five years ago to help those most in need of such information have access to it?
> What are we doing to work with the disadvantaged rather than merely for them?
>
> I am in the ironic situation of posing all of these questions from my current
> office in Bucharest, Romania. I'm not in the ideal position to be part of a
> Seattle-based community at this moment. The internet is an amazing thing: it
> allows me to actively participate in this discussion from the far edge of
> Europe. The question to me is, what are we doing to make it equally likely for
> someone to participate from the far edge of South Park, White Center, or Yesler
> Terrace? What are we doing to build democracy in the USA?
>
Joe, thanks for the food for thought. As I've blathered on about in the past,
updating SCN is going to be a big deal. I want to get to that point, then work from
there. Structure will change, and we will see things from a new vantage point. I
really believe that.
If you have a short/long list of things that we need to do, please send them to me.
Thanks!
Patrick
> --------------------
> Joe Mabel
>
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, patrick fisher wrote:
>
> > I see "Powering our Communities with Technology" to mean that communities,
> groups
> > can use SCN to have a web site to broadcast information about themselves via a
> media
> > that is accessible to all. That is my take on it.
> >
> > Second, please, please tell me what needs to be fixed with SCN. From your point.
> I
> > have asked. And what is it that us web update people can do to fix it? I don't
> do
> > hardware. I don't do software. A few of us topic editors who update the pages
> are
> > good at what they do and are not hardware/software people. If the problem lies
> > there, what is it that we can do when we do not have those skills? Please tell
> me.
> >
> > There are other more pressing problems. Do all of the volunteers jump in and
> work
> > only on those items and ignore everything else?
> >
> > What is wrong with fixing up a car by having a few people working on the engine
> and
> > a few painting and detailing? Should we all be working on the engine? Please
> tell
> > me, I'd like to know.
> >
> > And if the site looks great and updated, will that not bring in more donations?
> > Leaving the front end in neglect while working on the engine only will be our
> > savior?
> >
> > Mainly, many people have said that there are more pressing issues for SCN.
> HOwever,
> > no one has mentioned specifically what those things are.
> >
> > Also, to reiterate, an organization putting a web site up for free on SCN, void
> of
> > ads, is in my opinion, "Powering our communities with technology". Maybe it
> isn't
> > the total answer, but I think SCN does a great job at what it can do.
> >
> > Off my soapbox,
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Terry Trimingham <ttrim at scn.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with Doug on this one.
> > >
> > > SCN was created to allow all people access to technology. "Democratic
> > > technology for all." It is still true, we still allow the have-nots access
> > > to the internet.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, we are archaic, klunky, and hard to use compared to
> > > most technology available today. "Powering our communities with
> > > technology" implies that we have something slick to offer, and we don't. I
> > > think it is VERY misleading to use this phrase as our slogan.
> > >
> > > And, I agree with Joe. There are so many other things wrong with SCN than
> > > the logo and the slogan, it would be better to focus on those things,
> > > rather than try to "fix" something that hasn't yet broken.
> > >
> > > Terry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Doug Schuler wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't like the logo change idea and I don't like the
> > > > slogan change idea.
> > > >
> > > > "Democratic Technology for all" is more inclusive and broad.
> > > >
> > > > "Powering our communities with technology" is technocratic.
> > > >
> > > > I would think that we'd rather put the emphasis on DEMOCRACY
> > > > not on TECHNOLOGY.
> > > >
> > > > Can somebody remind me why this is happening?
> > > >
> > > > -- Doug
> > > >
> > > > ******************************************************************
> > > > * SHAPING THE NETWORK SOCIETY *
> > > > * Patterns for Participation, Action, and Change *
> > > > * http://www.cpsr.org/conferences/diac02 *
> > > > * Tomorrow's information and communication infrastructure *
> > > > * is being shaped today. *
> > > > * But by whom and to what ends? *
> > > > * Questions: diac02-info at cpsr.org *
> > > > ******************************************************************
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, patrick fisher wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the comments. The logo issue is out of my hands, as far as I
> know.
> > > > >
> > > > > There will be a different slogan. I think it is: Powering Our Communities
> with
> > > > > Technology.
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be nice, as you say, to have different variations of the logos
> for
> > > > > different uses.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will put the PDF up on a web page. I will have to take a screen sshot
> and
> > > past it
> > > > > as an image, though.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > Patrick
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Joe Mabel <jmabel at speakeasy.org> wrote:
> > > > > > Any logo with relatively small letters in the design (e.g. the
> "democratic
> > > > > > technology for all" writtenrat the bottom) is liable to scale down
> badly.
> > > > > > Before adopting it, we should play with how it scales down and consider
> > > whether
> > > > > > it will be acceptable at the smallsst size we intend to use.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One standard solution to this is to adopt several variations of a logo
> 3-5
> > > > > > different sizes, possibly a color and a B&W version at each size. Major
> > > graphic
> > > > > > elements should stay the same, but details may vary: for example, text
> might
> > > not
> > > > > > be exactly proportional at the different sizes, to improve readability.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In any event, rather than sending candidate logos out by PDF through
> email,
> > > > > > can't we please post them on SCN itself somewhere & have one central
> place
> > > > > > people can look at the possibiities?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That said, I do sense a bit af rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic
> here:
> > > > > > Except for people who have no other SCN activities they can contribute
> to,
> > > this
> > > > > > seems like a pretty low-return use of volunteer time. I would not put a
> new
> > >
> > > > > > logo among SCN's 50 greatest needs at the moment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --------------------
> > > > > > Joe Mabel
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, patrick fisher wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here are some logo ideas in PDF format.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please make specific, exact comments on what you like or do not like
> > > > > > > about the logos.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Everyone's comments will be taken into consideration.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If PDF does not work for you, please let me know and I will work
> > > > > > > something out.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > > Patrick
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > Webmaster
> > > > > > > Seattle Community Network
> > > > > > > http://www.scn.org
> > > > > > > "Powering our communities with technology"
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > =====
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> > http://www.scn.org
> > "Powering our communities with technology"
> >
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Seattle Community Network
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"Powering our communities with technology"
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