SCN: Hello?

patrick fisher clariun at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 27 08:07:28 PST 2002 

Joe,

Please don't worry. I don't expect things to be all that different. And it will only
be once.

Patrick

--- Joe Mabel <jmabel at speakeasy.org> wrote:
> Again, I will assert that the solution to this is not to delete pages and break 
> other people's links. Speaking as someone who maintains an online directory, 
> that is a way to create more work for someone else than you save for yourself.  
> It's fine to delete the entire contents of a  page and have it just say "the 
> information you are seeking has been relocated 
> to...<URL>" or "This page described a monthly meeting that no longer takes 
> place. For information about <topic> see <URL>."  It's also fine (commendable 
> even) to drop our own links to now-useless pages, which reduces the clutter from 
> the point of view of users, although admittedly not from that of administrators. 
> And it is simply commendable to get our content up to date.  However, anyone who 
> has tried to link into the City of Seattle's site can tell you that it is a 
> royal pain in the ass to try to link into a site where they keep restructuring.
> 
> --------------------
> Joe Mabel
> 
> On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, patrick fisher wrote:
> 
> > Joe,
> > 
> > The clutter needs to be reduced. There can be a place for discontinued pages,
> > information, which is what I think Jim is referring to. If it means breaking
> > someone's link, then that is the way it has to be. 
> > 
> > My reasoning is this: We need to have as much valuable information as possible
> on
> > SCN, which it has a great deal of. At the same time we need to balance that with
> > usability.
> > 
> > The Volunteer Community page is under SCN Communities. The old HTML file is
> still
> > there. However, I cleaned up the section. 
> > 
> > Okay, back to beating a dead horse (for the last time): I have gone in circles
> and
> > circles looking for information on SCN, not only because of the multitude of
> links,
> > and not only because of the volume of data, but also because there is a lot of
> > information that is not pertinent. 
> > 
> > When you have a lot of information that is not pertinent, it makes the very
> valuable
> > information worthless if people can't find it.
> > 
> > SCN is great. It deserves to be greater.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Patrick
> > 
> > --- Joe Mabel <jmabel at speakeasy.org> wrote:
> > > Where it is our own SCN content - meetings that don't take place, etc - we 
> > > should update the content! However, I strongly believe that even a page
> devoted 
> > > to a meeting that no longer takes place should be modified to say "this page 
> > > used to describe a meeting ..." etc. rather than be deleted, or you break 
> > > someone else's link.
> > > 
> > > Not sure what page you mean by "The Volunteer Community Page". Can you give a 
> > > URL?
> > > 
> > > --------------------
> > > Joe Mabel
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, patrick fisher wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I can think of one example: The Volunteer Community Page had a lot of out of
> > > date
> > > > stuff: Event information that was 2 years after the fact.
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe by outdated, Jim means anachronistic? There is a lot of old stuff:
> Like
> > > > information on meetings that don't take place anymore, email address galore
> for
> > > > people who are no longer with the organization, procedures that don't occur
> now
> > > and
> > > > have been supplanted by something else. SCN services, many of which are not
> > > > occuring. Training, anyone?
> > > > 
> > > > Gross generalizations, but that is what I see from my vantage point.
> > > > 
> > > > Patrick
> > > > 
> > > > --- Joe Mabel <jmabel at speakeasy.org> wrote:
> > > > > So could you please elaborate (by example, or whatever) what you mean by 
> > > > > outdated content?  For example, I have pages in the Crisis Resource
> Directory 
> > > > > that haven't been touched in a year.  That's because I haven't had any new
> 
> > > > > information in these categories. Does that make them irredeemably old? I
> sure 
> > > > > don't think so.  On the other hand, a page announcing an event can become 
> > > > > completely outdated mere weeks after it is originally posted, because tse
> > > evenv 
> > > > > is now past.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So what do you have in mind? And what exactly do you propose to do with
> the 
> > > > > "outdated" pages?
> > > > > 
> > > > > --------------------
> > > > > Joe Mabel
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Jim Loring wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Thanks Joe for responding.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > You bring up some interesting points. While I don't consider older
> and/or
> > > > > > previous pages "demoted" by being placed in an archive, it is of some
> > > > > > importance to figure some way of determining what material is no longer
> > > > > > current.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > In a sense, merely updating links and adding and deleting notices
> changes
> > > > > > the pages, and this has been one method of keeping SCN current. Yet this
> > > > > > method may, by some, be inadequate for larger updates and modifications.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Interesting points, Joe.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Joe Mabel [mailto:jmabel at speakeasy.org]
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:36 AM
> > > > > > To: Jim Loring
> > > > > > Cc: scn at scn.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: SCN: Hello?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It's really hard to know what to think of this without knowing what you
> > > > > > intend
> > > > > > to demote to "archive" status.  How do you intend to decide that certain
> > > > > > content
> > > > > > is no longer current? I hope that in any case you don't plan to change
> its
> > > > > > URLs:
> > > > > > If you do so, you'll screw up any links to it that may exist.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > That said, if there is actually any outdated content that deserves such
> > > > > > demotion, it may well be a good idea.  But I, for one, would certainly
> want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > know your criteria before I endorsed this.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --------------------
> > > > > > Joe Mabel
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Jim Loring wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Hello All -
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Say, just thinking out loud, I was wondering how everyone felt about
> the
> > > > > > > topic of directory simplification and the archiving old SCN material
> such
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > web pages?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It would be nice to simplify some of the directories as it might make
> it
> > > > > > > easier for folks viewing SCN web pages to navigate and find
> information.
> > > > > > It
> > > > > > > would also be easier to edit the various sections.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think it would be interesting to archive some of the old web pages,
> and
> > > > > > > make them available somewhere on SCN - a "Museum of SCN," if you will.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Finally, we need to update some of the content on the pages, to keep
> SCN
> > > > > > > useful and something folks might want to use as an up-to-date
> reference.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So - ideas? We can chat about this at the SCN General meeting on
> > > > > > Wednesday.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim Loring
> > > > > > > webeditors at scn.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seattle Community Network - "Powering Our Communities with Technology"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > > > Seattle Community Network
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> > > > 
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> > Seattle Community Network
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> > "Powering our communities with technology"
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=====
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Seattle Community Network
http://www.scn.org
"Powering our communities with technology"

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